Ways for Frontier to make money

[Ruskodisco]

the problem with selling ships is that people need a reason to put their money down and unless doing so gives you some form of in game advantage there is no incentive to pay for them.

even if they then have to buy them with in game credits its still pay to win as those who dont spend real money cannot get the same 'upgraded' ship and benefit from the advantages it gives the player.

if the ships confer no advantage at all fewer people will buy them and little if any money over and above the cost of including them will be raised.

selling in game credits is NOT pay to win simply because anything you can get in game by flashing the plastic and paying real money for i can get by grinding out the credits.

sure it may take me some time to do but if i have time and you dont credit sales puts us on a level playing field as you can now buy all the same things i can in the game due to my time investment and your cash investment.

provided that FD don't make it exponentially harder to earn money in order to bump up their credit sales there wont be a problem but if they do its game over time. people will stop playing by the bus load if they feel they cannot make progress without getting their wallet out.

but that is exactly what pay to win means when you buy credits with real money you win those ships unless i'm missing another "win" here....
the whole point of buying a ship is to buy a ship...and who said there would be no advantage to these ships? if making them "worth it" is all you need then then that is 100% obtainable.

they already ahve a winning business model with what they have all they need is to sell expansions, and ships for in game content. not to start selling credits because then that is the literal version of pay to win my friend

 

[StayFrosty]

redacted

I think they're trying to make a game here, and I think backers want a good game to play, without ads, and without a cash shop. I'm sorry, but you're in the minority.

I don't even see why we would discuss ways to break the game in order to allow Frontier to make money, that doesn't even concern us. The problem wish cash shops is that they break the game in so many ways, people are just less interested with it.

No matter what excuse you come up with, people don't like this stuff, and it won't change.

 

[Cmdr Andy B]

but that is exactly what pay to win means when you buy credits with real money you win those ships unless i'm missing another "win" here....
the whole point of buying a ship is to buy a ship...and who said there would be no advantage to these ships? if making them worth is all you need then then that is 100% obtainable.

its the advantage it gives to a player that cannot be obtained any other way that makes it pay to win.

as i said the difference with selling credits is that no matter how much money you spend on them i can still earn the same amount of credits by playing the game. therefore we can both buy the same ships and equipment and no advantage is gained though a cash purchase that cannot be replicated through gameplay.

considering the demographics of this game there will be a lot of people who have the money but dont have the time, they can still play at the same level as someone who has the time but either doesn't have the money or doesn't want to spend it on credits.

my point about selling them was similar but from the other angle, if ships can only be flown if you stump up real money and those ships give you an advantage then i cannot compete on a level playing field with you as i cannot ever buy the same ship by only using in game credits.

 

[Ruskodisco]

I think they're trying to make a game here, and I think backers want a good game to play, without ads, and without a cash shop. I'm sorry, but you're in the minority.

I don't even see why we would discuss ways to break the game in order to allow Frontier to make money, that doesn't even concern us. The problem wish cash shops is that they break the game in so many ways, people are just less interested with it.

No matter what excuse you come up with, people don't like this stuff, and it won't change.

[redacted] but backers want a amazing game. and if ads and buying ships will accomplish then they will support it. what do you think staff at frontier is doing this for free? this is because you don't know how business works. you think you can just make people work hard then expect them to do it for free. this isn't communism they are not doing this just for the giggles.
#2 you do know what competition is correct? if they do it wrong obviously their competition is going to get the money. so who ever has the most money makes the better game.

 

[Ruskodisco]

its the advantage it gives to a player that cannot be obtained any other way that makes it pay to win.

as i said the difference with selling credits is that no matter how much money you spend on them i can still earn the same amount of credits by playing the game. therefore we can both buy the same ships and equipment and no advantage is gained though a cash purchase that cannot be replicated through gameplay.

considering the demographics of this game there will be a lot of people who have the money but dont have the time, they can still play at the same level as someone who has the time but either doesn't have the money or doesn't want to spend it on credits.

my point about selling them was similar but from the other angle, if ships can only be flown if you stump up real money and those ships give you an advantage then i cannot compete on a level playing field with you as i cannot ever buy the same ship by only using in game credits.

ok so you want people to buy the game then buy the credits to get the ships already in the game?....you getting what i mean? if people don't want more than 25 ships than i guess don't do my idea. but if people want more ships it costs money to build them these ships take time build. and it's not just exterior anymore it's also interior.....i mean what if people want more ships than the expansion packs and the game provides? there will be a demand for more ships but it aint free to make......
but buying in game credits is still paying to win because pay to win means you can earn it or skip over that and just get the prize that is the literal definition of pay to win

 

[StayFrosty]

[redacted] but backers want a amazing game. and if ads and buying ships will accomplish then they will support it. what do you think staff at frontier is doing this for free? this is because you don't know how business works. you think you can just make people work hard then expect them to do it for free. this isn't communism they are not doing this just for the giggles.
#2 you do know what competition is correct? if they do it wrong obviously their competition is going to get the money. so who ever has the most money makes the better game.

So you still missed two key points:

- They're not doing this for free, they had a Kickstarter, now they continue to sell the game, and will continue to do so for years. I sure hope you're aware some publishers just sell their games without even additional content and make revenue.
- We know nothing about how much more money Frontier needs, and how desperate they are to monetize everything in this game.

There's no point discussing alternate ways to make money, we can only wish there won't be more, because the point where betting on monetization has you start losing consumers is only getting closer at each attempt.

 

[SlimExpert]

Pay to win = buying credits, if on day one, I can buy 10M CR for $10, I buy a fully equipped Anaconda, then I paid to win. Maybe only a short term victory, as others will soon earn one - if the game plays like beta today.

So, any form of cash for credits (or ship or equipment) is pay to win.

I am happy for skins and other "fluff" in the game to be paid for. I would pay real $$$ to name a planet, station, comet even. But, nothing that gets an advantage.

I am already paying FD for the game, I backed the $75 for beta, plus the $50 for pass. FD have my money, that is the business model.

They plan to spend 8M GBP on the game, of which 3M was raised through kick starter already. So, they at least need to make 5M after the game completes. So, a big increase in player count.

When the game releases a lot of people will pay their $50 for the game, if they like it will pay extra $50 (or whatever) for expansions. If the final game sucks (which I doubt) they will walk away.

I don't even mind some none-immersion breaking adverts, but that is a different can of worms.

I am also sure, that with each paid expansion, we will get new ships, new missions, new areas, new game mechanics.

Slim

 

[Cmdr Andy B]

ok so you want people to buy the game then buy the credits to get the ships already in the game?....you getting what i mean? if people don't want more than 25 ships than i guess don't do my idea. but if people want more ships it costs money to build them these ships take time build. and it's not just exterior anymore it's also interior.....i mean what if people want more ships than the expansion packs and the game provides? there will be a demand for more ships but it aint free to make......
but buying in game credits is still paying to win because pay to win means you can earn it or skip over that and just get the prize that is the literal definition of pay to win

that's what expansions are for, they cost money to buy but provide additional content without costing too much, one ship for £25 is a lot of money when compared to the lifetime expansion pass at £35 and i dont see FD charging a lot more than £15 for each expansion, maybe £20 but no more as if they did they would price too many people out of the market for it. if people want more ships than the expansion provides then its simple: they buy another expansion.

you seem to be under the impression that nobody else knows what capitalism is, we are well versed in it and one of its key principles is that if you overcharge for something you dont sell a lot of it, in real world terms this can be an advantage as your product gains exclusivity (think Ferrari) but for a product with smaller margins such as a game you need to sell as many copies as you possibly can and some of your idea's would put a lot of people off so they wont want to buy the game, the expansions, the skins or anything else.

 

[Ruskodisco]

So you still missed two key points:

- They're not doing this for free, they had a Kickstarter, now they continue to sell the game, and will continue to do so for years. I sure hope you're aware some publishers just sell their games without even additional content and make revenue.
- We know nothing about how much more money Frontier needs, and how desperate they are to monetize everything in this game.

There's no point discussing alternate ways to make money, we can only wish there won't be more, because the point where betting on monetization has you start losing consumers is only getting closer at each attempt.

ok so after planet expansions and other expansions what are they going to sell? how are they going to keep updating the game graphically and game play wise? it costed 150 mil to devolp gta 5 and it took 5 years. they re sold their games to pc. they sold dlcs. but each and every game was for the next game. so it's not as easy as it sounds. all i'm saying is they sell a few ships to people who want to buy them and i promise they would sell. so why not sell them to people who want it? tell me exactly how this is going to "break" the game. when i buy gun packs in saints row 4 does that "break" my game?
you're saying this will disrupt people. but all you're saying is you don't want other people to buy ships cause you just feel they should only come with expansion packs.....

 

[Ruskodisco]

that's what expansions are for, they cost money to buy but provide additional content without costing too much, one ship for £25 is a lot of money when compared to the lifetime expansion pass at £35 and i dont see FD charging a lot more than £15 for each expansion, maybe £20 but no more as if they did they would price too many people out of the market for it. if people want more ships than the expansion provides then its simple: they buy another expansion.

you seem to be under the impression that nobody else knows what capitalism is, we are well versed in it and one of its key principles is that if you overcharge for something you dont sell a lot of it, in real world terms this can be an advantage as your product gains exclusivity (think Ferrari) but for a product with smaller margins such as a game you need to sell as many copies as you possibly can and some of your idea's would put a lot of people off so they wont want to buy the game, the expansions, the skins or anything else.

again if one overcharges don't you think the player can simply go to the competition? you're thinking that ED is the only one, well that's not true and soon it will be other companies that want a piece of this new pie. so obviously they have to sell at a competitive rate...

so here is alittle bump in your road what if a person bought every single expansion then wants more ships??
#2 about the in game credits you said some people don't have time for the game to make it. that's like saying a person didn't bring a raft to white water rafting. the whole point of this game is to spend time. and oh btw how much time do you even need? it's really not that hard to make money. everyone could have anaconda if they really wanted it. this game is not going to pay to win and even david himself said he would never charge for credits in the 2014 gamescon that's why it's so easy to make money here.

 

[StayFrosty]

ok so after planet expansions and other expansions what are they going to sell? how are they going to keep updating the game graphically and game play wise? it costed 150 mil to devolp gta 5 and it took 5 years. they re sold their games to pc. they sold dlcs. but each and every game was for the next game. so it's not as easy as it sounds. all i'm saying is they sell a few ships to people who want to buy them and i promise they would sell. so why not sell them to people who want it? tell me exactly how this is going to "break" the game. when i buy gun packs in saints row 4 does that "break" my game?
you're saying this will disrupt people. but all you're saying is you don't want other people to buy ships cause you just feel they should only come with expansion packs.....

They won't update the game forever. They might even make Elite 5 some day. As for GTAV, it's a bad comparison. It's a completely different kind of game, and tons of games are made with way less money.

And finally, if you want to know why cash shop ruin games... well I suggest you to read the hundreds of articles available on these. Allowing players to rise to the top with money is terrible for the game and the players on countless aspect, if only for how achievements in the game don't mean anything anymore if you can pay your way through it, or how the game's content is removed in favor of some "elite" that can pay for more.

There's a reason why many games don't do it, and why people hate it when they do.

 

[Ruskodisco]

They won't update the game forever. They might even make Elite 5 some day. As for GTAV, it's a bad comparison. It's a completely different kind of game, and tons of games are made with way less money.

And finally, if you want to know why cash shop ruin games... well I suggest you to read the hundreds of articles available on these. Allowing players to rise to the top with money is terrible for the game and the players on countless aspect, if only for how achievements in the game don't mean anything anymore if you can pay your way through it, or how the game's content is removed in favor of some "elite" that can pay for more.

There's a reason why many games don't do it, and why people hate it when they do.

ugh never mind you're not getting it. and if they kept making expansion packs and selling other merchandise which david does plan on doing btw they will continue updating it. he even said himself he would like to update it as long as players want it updated. again you're saying that they get these ships right away they don't i'm saying after you earn enough credits you can buy those ships you bought with real money.
and also they will only have the guns that are sold in the store the only difference is they have a different ship than you that you won't have because you're too cheap. any questions?
because i know plenty of games that sell cars and guns and people buy them up like gta and you know what they are making millions. and if they didn't sell they wouldn't be in the store.

 

[Cmdr Andy B]

redacted

that's because having loads of cash isnt the 'win' scenario in this game, getting a good rank is and you cant buy that from the store or with in game credits - you have to earn in through game play.

buy 10 million credits if you like but its only going to get you the ship, not the experience to fight with it or trade with it and so i'll still grind my way to the top of the rankings before you do. plus the first time i come across your cash conda its going to turn into a cash cow for me as i steal all your cargo and destroy your ship simply because i can out fly you. if i have practised for many more hours than you to get to the same point its obvious that i stand a very good chance of being the better pilot. that's not pay to win, its pay to let other people beat the living heck out of you and take all that money you spend for themselves.

 

[Ruskodisco]

that's because having loads of cash isnt the 'win' scenario in this game, getting a good rank is and you cant buy that from the store or with in game credits - you have to earn in through game play.

buy 10 million credits if you like but its only going to get you the ship, not the experience to fight with it or trade with it and so i'll still grind my way to the top of the rankings before you do. plus the first time i come across your cash conda its going to turn into a cash cow for me as i steal all your cargo and destroy your ship simply because i can out fly you. if i have practised for many more hours than you to get to the same point its obvious that i stand a very good chance of being the better pilot. that's not pay to win, its pay to let other people beat the living heck out of you and take all that money you spend for themselves.

if people care about rank that much they would pay. i want planet landing i want alot of ships, i want cities and all the do da and hoopla. i couldn't care less of rank.

lol if buy ten million credits i can just simply use 10 million credits to hire people to attack you at multiple groups to keep you from reaching even close to your wanted rank.
rank is not even 1% of the games purpose.

dude i don't even want to fight in this game. i want to vist cities and planets.

you just outlined another point what if people buy credits then get it stolen. how would that be better?
and isn't me buying 10 million credits then hiring guys who are more experienced than you(higher rank) and at multiple groups to destroy you simply winning by paying even though it's not my win i can simply use my money to keep attacking since you want to attack me for my money....
pay2win is wrong bro. paying for a ship that doesn't give advantage over a player but only gives them a different ship is not wrong it's paying for art these people work hard on these ships. but if you had pay2win and had to buy credits you can lose these credits forever. but if you only sold ships and other stuff and expansions then you can't lose it you only have to earn your credits back. your idea is horrible and won't last like every other pay2win.

 

[Muldeh]

David doesn't believe in p2w, woohoo!

No need to worry about that.

 

[Astronaut Teemo]

Just an idea for putting ads in game, maybe they could get a sponsor, say coca cola, and "futurize" it to fit into the atmosphere of the game. Like, it'll obviously be a coke ad, but in the style of elite so as not to break immersion and be annoying. Maybe the can could be in the shape of the coriolis station, or something of the like.

This may seem silly, but even make coca cola a tradeable commodity, a cheap good akin to the energy drinks in the game right now . Just a couple ideas, anyhow.

 

[Pro Gamer]

They won't update the game forever. They might even make Elite 5 some day. As for GTAV, it's a bad comparison. It's a completely different kind of game, and tons of games are made with way less money.

And finally, if you want to know why cash shop ruin games... well I suggest you to read the hundreds of articles available on these. Allowing players to rise to the top with money is terrible for the game and the players on countless aspect, if only for how achievements in the game don't mean anything anymore if you can pay your way through it, or how the game's content is removed in favor of some "elite" that can pay for more.

There's a reason why many games don't do it, and why people hate it when they do.

Look at Bohemia Interactive, they were still updating Arma 2 while Arma 3 was released. Frontier can work on other games at the same time and continue support for Elite Dangerous.

 

[Pro Gamer]

Just an idea for putting ads in game, maybe they could get a sponsor, say coca cola, and "futurize" it to fit into the atmosphere of the game. Like, it'll obviously be a coke ad, but in the style of elite so as not to break immersion and be annoying. Maybe the can could be in the shape of the coriolis station, or something of the like.

This may seem silly, but even make coca cola a tradeable commodity, a cheap good akin to the energy drinks in the game right now . Just a couple ideas, anyhow.

People would mod in an Elite Dangerous Ad-Block.

 

[Ruskodisco]

Just an idea for putting ads in game, maybe they could get a sponsor, say coca cola, and "futurize" it to fit into the atmosphere of the game. Like, it'll obviously be a coke ad, but in the style of elite so as not to break immersion and be annoying. Maybe the can could be in the shape of the coriolis station, or something of the like.

This may seem silly, but even make coca cola a tradeable commodity, a cheap good akin to the energy drinks in the game right now . Just a couple ideas, anyhow.

that's genius!!!
and it would'nt break immersion or even hinder the game or the gameplay.

when they announced that they will be putting planetary landing, and actual cities to explore. i thought to myself "well there goes my plan for a wife and a family"

 

[Cmdr Andy B]

People would mod in an Elite Dangerous Ad-Block.

no need to mod it in, the adds wont be permanent so an ip block of the known ad servers at the firewall level would do the job.

(this response is for anyone who posts saying FD would prevent modding the game files)