This is why I worry about the future of ED - it's FDev themselves

Both of you are trying way too hard. Give it a rest, will you?

Play games you enjoy and avoid the ones you don't isn't controversial advice. Its wisdom passed down from those who understand what video games are.

It cuts straight to the heart of the problem, which is people mistakenly thinking the MMO should be rewritten for their personal immediate yet changing demands and stamping their feet when it isn't.

That word "potential" keeps coming up. The fact that "potential" is still the biggest selling point of Elite is also its biggest flaw.

The games been out four years, it is what it is. Holding out for some imaginary future version is unrealistic. DLC is possible, patches are possible the foundations will stay the same.
 
I highly doubt that is even remotely the case and is just another line from the "CR IS CRAP, SC IS CRAP, IT'S ALL CRAP" brigade of which I already know you are a fully paid up member red.

Its not crap its just hugely dubious, very successful but hugely dubious nonetheless. Good luck to plucky Crytek dragging these fiends kicking and screaming into the halls of justice.
 
No idea where you got this info from. Any sources perhaps?
All I got for now is this one:
https://www.frontier.co.uk/investors/director-biographies-and-committees

He is right.

He sold his share in june 2016 if i am not mistaken when tencent entered the company (and a lot of dev sold their share too).

There were a link but I couldn't find it.

About Braben not being anymore rule in the company there are a lot of signs: compare how much he was present on media at Kickstarter time and now; if i am not mistaken, the last event at expo he wasn't even present in the elite stand.

Once tencent entered the company things went bad for elite: huge delay, low commmitment (not because dev are lazy but because they have too many project to follow) and so on.

You can judge by yourself comparing how fast they went from 1 to 1.8 in one year working on horizon too, and the development for 2.1 to 3.2 which has requested… how many? 3 years?...
 
He is right.

He sold his share in june 2016 if i am not mistaken when tencent entered the company (and a lot of dev sold their share too).

There were a link but I couldn't find it.

About Braben not being anymore rule in the company there are a lot of signs: compare how much he was present on media at Kickstarter time and now; if i am not mistaken, the last event at expo he wasn't even present in the elite stand.

Once tencent entered the company things went bad for elite: huge delay, low commmitment (not because dev are lazy but because they have too many project to follow) and so on.

You can judge by yourself comparing how fast they went from 1 to 1.8 in one year working on horizon too, and the development for 2.1 to 3.2 which has requested… how many? 3 years?...

A reduction in visible media presence between sales pitch and four years post release isn't surprising or suspicious.
 
I do think FD does not put as much energy into this game anymore. In the beginning they just had a wild mix of people doing things for the first time (Multiplayer, online transactions, ingame purchases, VR, etc) with varying degrees of experience and success. Now they got this huge game that they still steer through the seas with the same tiny rudder, and it takes ages to turn. And I feel there are fewer strong people operating that rudder.

Truth is, i am not holding my breath for Q4. Both because of the speed of development and the past irksome design decisions.
 
No idea where you got this info from. Any sources perhaps?
All I got for now is this one:
https://www.frontier.co.uk/investors/director-biographies-and-committees


It's in the latest annual report:

https://frontier-drupal.s3-eu-west-...ess-releases/financial/annual-report-2018.pdf

Pages 20 and 21

DB himself still holds 36.5%, currently seated directors combined hold 53% though, so still the majority.
Tencent 8.74%, not exactly a "chinese takeover" yet then.:)
Besides, Tencent is currently in a major struggle with chinese authorities over games' approvals.
They got far bigger concerns than ED right now.
 

Rafe Zetter

Banned

Reports to shareholders - are you kidding me? You think that constitutes keeping the playerbase informed? *yawn another report - now where's my money?*

The livestream - I'll give you that - now show me something less recent - what's been going on between 3.1 and the beginning. Show me the list of appearances he's made.

I ask because I've not kept track, but you may have it seems - I'm interested if this is the norm and he's been doing livestreams for the entire dev period or this was a rare appearance.

As far as press appearances go - he's hardly going to tell the press to F off now is he when he's got a game to promote and push his own agenda and the company, he is still the figurehead after all, which is what most of those press releases were about "we want to be this / or that / I think the game industry needs XYZ coz I'm important"

Please tell me you have more than the normal stuff every company with a marginally awake marketing office has to do?

I'm talking about all the times when there was no press person to impress or major update to promote - I mean the day to day "hey guys - look what we're working on, we're excited about it(tm)".

We get that ALL.THE.TIME. from CR (who's running a company far far larger and widespread) than FDev - and now more lately Sean from Hello Games.
 
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Rafe Zetter

Banned
Whilst I can't completely refute your characterisation there, it would be considerably more fair to say I'm a member of the 'has played every single game the guy has been even tangentially involved with and have an entirely realistic opinion of his ability to deliver a) on time and b) within budget' brigade.

I can't be salty about SC Rafe because I didn't back it for exactly that reason. I devoutly hope that it gets a full release and is awesome. I just can't see it happening with nobody to wind in some of his more outrageous flights of fancy and yes, there have been plenty of those.

I'm sure some E D players would prefer the approach initially. However I suspect that when they realised just how much of it is smoke, mirrors and handwavium, their appetite for it may tail off somewhat.

Whatever you may think though, don't mistake my scepticism for a tribal attitude because it just isn't.

Lol well I'll give the respect of at least partially accepting my response.

But on time and on budget is pretty rare in the gaming world isn't it.

You can't even claim ED is on time and on budget as it's still technically in open Beta in many ways, a viewpoint most will find hard to refute.

Yes CR has gone wildly off course with SC, but most of that is the backers fault, I've said before several times in previous threads that if SC had not increased the scope of the game LONG before the constant ship sales we have now, and delivered the game he initially outlined people would have been hella mad at the product they got for the money given.

He initially wanted an updated Freelancer "the one that got away". When US$75 million dropped in his lap did he have much of a choice? Not really. By the time it was US$150 million and he was buying a full on MoCap suite etc etc, the BDSSE possibility was in high gear.

ED's got it's own smoke and mirrors as well (handwavium too, funny you should use that exact phrase) - I did a post not long back reminding the forum of a post by Bambi from 2 years previous, "broken promises, 2 years on" and in the intervening time little had been added from that initial list which was written 2 years after launch, a list that comprised entirely of KS sold content, outlined by DB himself no less.

So 4 years and a few months and...... not much has happened. Tweaks here and there and stuff "we are very excited about(tm)" in the wings - which seems largely to be much needed improvements (again) to existing content, that's been begged for since day 1 - mining and exploration.
 

Rafe Zetter

Banned
What have shareholders to do with who is controlling the game design? Shareholders doing all the coding now? Interesting...

Noo wasn't saying that - I asked for information on how often DB himself, in person, has made an appearance to talk to the fanbase about something, and StuartGT threw a copy of the yearly financials at me - a report that goes out to the shareholders, and then yet more links for official interviews DB made to various agents of the press about himself, himself, the company, a new game, himself, the company and err, another game.

All standard marketing events a company figurehead should attend, and Adams to do with the player base of ED.

BTW just for full disclosure StuartGT was at the recent FDev event, hand chosen by FDev (as were all the others), so read into that what you may.
 
What have shareholders to do with who is controlling the game design? Shareholders doing all the coding now? Interesting...

Nothing, but since Elite keeps progressing in development they have to do something to spread fear, uncertainty, and doubt. It's getting really tiresome to see Star Citizen fanbois incessantly clog up the Elite forums with their crappy predictable trolling. Infact, the incessant trolling of the Elite community is the main reason why I haven't contributed to Star Citizen and continue to be disinclined to do so.
 
What have shareholders to do with who is controlling the game design? Shareholders doing all the coding now? Interesting...

You clearly don't understand increasingly desperate justification of DOOM development after four years of being constantly wrong.

A few pages back rafe and znort were trying to draw negative inferences from note taking in a presentation to streamers. We've hit the final comedy layer just above the bottom of the barrel'o'doom.

Next it will just be scraping noises.

Nothing, but since Elite keeps progressing in development they have to do something to spread fear, uncertainty, and doubt. It's getting really tiresome to see Star Citizen fanbois incessantly clog up the Elite forums with their crappy predictable trolling. Infact, the incessant trolling of the Elite community is the main reason why I haven't contributed to Star Citizen and continue to be disinclined to do so.

Be fair they don't/won't have a game to play.
 

Rafe Zetter

Banned
Nothing, but since Elite keeps progressing in development they have to do something to spread fear, uncertainty, and doubt. It's getting really tiresome to see Star Citizen fanbois incessantly clog up the Elite forums with their crappy predictable trolling. Infact, the incessant trolling of the Elite community is the main reason why I haven't contributed to Star Citizen and continue to be disinclined to do so.

And OFC ED fanbois are as clean as the virgin snow, right?

You haven't backed SC purely based on the "trolling" SC players have done to ED? - err begs the question, why are you in ED either then, if such things upset your sensibilities - poor attempt at misdirection, unfortunately for you I got it before you deleted it.

If you are referring to me, and I think you are, I'm not an SC fanboi, I'm not even close to it for starters it's been uninstalled from my DT for many months, I looked at it when 3.2 dropped, and haven't been back, I've no idea where it's at right now - but when I see good marketing and player / dev interaction I'm going to tell those who are getting basically none from the game THEY play.

You're a fairly new guy in the forum, at least in activity anyway - you might have lurked for a while - but just to get you up to speed; "more information / roadmap / information / PLEASE tell us SOMETHING" has been a recurring theme on the ED forum since about 6 months after launch and has NEVER gone away, because FDev are utterly, utterly, UTTERLY, CRAP at it.
 

Rafe Zetter

Banned
It's in the latest annual report:

https://frontier-drupal.s3-eu-west-...ess-releases/financial/annual-report-2018.pdf

Pages 20 and 21

DB himself still holds 36.5%, currently seated directors combined hold 53% though, so still the majority.
Tencent 8.74%, not exactly a "chinese takeover" yet then.:)
Besides, Tencent is currently in a major struggle with chinese authorities over games' approvals.
They got far bigger concerns than ED right now.

Weren't 53% for 2017 and 38% for 2018? If so, 38% is nowhere near majority.

I think Kayweg means majority owned by one single person, but yes you are correct that it is as I stated, that DB can be outvoted by the board if any development decision he wants costs more money then the board are willing to throw at it - ergo - "he's not in control".

Now whether this happens is an entirely different matter, before StuartGT tries to point it out, BUT a board of Directors that puts "artistic desires" before "shareholders and money" are rare in the extreme and DB's previous position of CEO and Owner will only get him so far, but it's the choice he made to get rich, which is one of the reasons why I think as I do about him and his attachment to the game.

If he had kept the 50.1% required for a ruling majority, he'd have still been rich beyond his dreams (unless he's exceptionally greedy - Ian Bell might have something to say about that), AND kept control of his company, and it's direction, the games it made and HOW they got made, but HE CHOSE to give that up in favor of money.

I wouldn't give up what I did for £30 million - I couldn't, it's who I am. Sure I might take more holidays and have a bigger workshop and better tools, though - I'm not stupid. :)

The Elite franchise MADE DB, he wouldn't be where he is without it, because none of his other games were really noteworthy, they were fun, but average games with small yields of players, so small infact I thought he'd stopped making games altogether.

Yet he gave up the very thing that made him (and got him knighted) for money he would have had ANYWAY. Almost no company owners give up controlling share BY CHOICE (not even when they are millionaires or even BILLIONAIRES, and say what you like but the conclusions from that are hard to ignore.
 
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I wasn't surprised that they hadn't looked at the reward/payments for mining or exploration as it always feels tagged in at the last moment. Yes there is a balancing act between under paying and starving/driving players away and over paying, making ship prices worthless. But this is our core experience, they seem to miss that the first thing we do is say 'is it worth the time'. I still haven't done mega ship interactions as it seems to have no value.

I really hope they put sometime into the time/risk/reward for the core parts of the game. It would actually be the biggest qOL change they could carry out.

I get the feeling that ED is a story written by 1000 writers :D
 

Rafe Zetter

Banned
Shareholders greenlight projects.

They don't though, CEO together with other officers does. And if they have trust of shareholders, they keep doing that.

But that's the key thing you're sidelining isn't it? The trust of the shareholders - The arrogance of a company board coupled with lack of trust from the shareholders has crippled many a company and forced a vote of "no confidence" about the CEO and the board, and then both the CEO and Board can be ousted, IF the company survives at all.

So directly or not - the shareholders have more power than most realise, until it's too late. - Usually that's about 5 minutes after the shareholders start dumping thier shares before the value falls off a cliff - which ironically it just a minute or so after that, because of the share dump.
 
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