Ahh, then yes I agree. They have not added any close up detailed models, as the don't need to at the moment. If and when space legs does come out, I am sure they will add all of those more detailed models when they need to. It is a lot of work, hence the reason why I don't expect it for some years down the line if it comes at all, but they may be further along then we think if they have had teams working on this stuff for years now as has been alluded to by DBOBE.
Ahh, then yes I agree. They have not added any close up detailed models, as the don't need to at the moment. If and when space legs does come out, I am sure they will add all of those more detailed models when they need to. It is a lot of work, hence the reason why I don't expect it for some years down the line if it comes at all, but they may be further along then we think if they have had teams working on this stuff for years now as has been alluded to by DBOBE.
I don't expect them to release it for free. It would be a paid for update, so while I can see it happening, I am not 100% sure it will happen.
I would love Space Legs -- in theory.
But watching the videos of people playing NMS or SC it occurs to me that if all it adds is the need to walk in a repetitive way to a new menu screen, then we will have lost rather than won something.
If at every station, the chap who runs the market is first on the left, and the chap who will sell you weapons is last on the right -- then I'd rather just sit in my ship and order my upgrades, my cargo, and my coffee to be delivered, thank you.
I don't know how to solve that problem, but I'm glad (on reflection) that Frontier have not rushed it. The NMS interface looks like it could get old quickly.
But watching the videos of people playing NMS or SC it occurs to me that if all it adds is the need to walk in a repetitive way to a new menu screen, then we will have lost rather than won something.
If at every station, the chap who runs the market is first on the left, and the chap who will sell you weapons is last on the right -- then I'd rather just sit in my ship and order my upgrades, my cargo, and my coffee to be delivered, thank you.
I don't know how to solve that problem, but I'm glad (on reflection) that Frontier have not rushed it. The NMS interface looks like it could get old quickly.
Uh huh. An article from Derek Smart criticizing Star Citizen. That's the best example of "Pot calling Kettle black" I've ever seen. Only differences between Derek and his project and Roberts and his project are:
- They've both over promised and under delivered.
- Derek's project had nowhere near the funding of Star Citizen
- Derek's project has been done/dead for years while we're still waiting for Star Citizen to either finally succeed or fail.
I really wouldn't bring any of this up in regards to Elite Dangerous. That's all I'm going to say.
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Actually doing it in a 1:1 scale of our Galaxy? All the station interiors they would have to set up. Ship interiors. Planet side bases.
Sure, they could knock it out real quick if you don't want any actual gameplay. Hurray, now you can walk around the inside of your ship, or parts of the station, and just LOOK at everything. Nothing to interact with. Nothing to do.
Adding the gameplay to all that? Yeah, that takes time. Lots and lots of time. Look at how long it takes a team from Bethesda to make a very interactive world you can walk around in and interact with (e.g. Skyrim or Fallout 4). Then look at all SERIOUS bugs they have to squash over the following years (I always wait at least a year or more before playing their games). And in both those cases, those are single player games with no server/network issues involved!
Yes, I too want Space Legs in ED. No, it is not easy.
I want to be able to move around my ship, I want npc crew,no more empty seats.
I want to wander around a station, stand on the edge of a crater, land on planets with atmosphere.
I’ve seen the arguments from those who are happy to sit in a ship with empty seats and just access menus and I am old enough to remember when text adventures were thought to be amazing.Believe it or not back then there were people who railed against the very crude and basic graphical improvements arguing that it negated the use of our imaginations.
I have played and loved all the versions of Elite over the years and have seen things you people wouldn’t believe....my god it’s full of stars.
I want to wander around a station, stand on the edge of a crater, land on planets with atmosphere.
I’ve seen the arguments from those who are happy to sit in a ship with empty seats and just access menus and I am old enough to remember when text adventures were thought to be amazing.Believe it or not back then there were people who railed against the very crude and basic graphical improvements arguing that it negated the use of our imaginations.
I have played and loved all the versions of Elite over the years and have seen things you people wouldn’t believe....my god it’s full of stars.
I don't want a bucket of development time invested so a few people can move around their ship, before then getting bored of the novelty of it after a few minutes.
I don't want a bucket of development time invested so a few people see NPC crew in their ship, before then getting bored of the novelty of it after a few minutes.
I don't want a bucket of development time invested so a few people can wonder around stations, before then getting bored of the novelty of it after a few minutes.
To make all of the above worthwile would require actual gameplay mechanics and content with depth and purpose, and this would involve a significant development effort. Meanwhile too much of the game is still X year old placeholder mechanics, or not even there. ie: We cannot even undertake combat scenarios of the basic complexity and involvement we could from games loaded onto a 486 computer from floppy discs. Why is it I cannot undertake a combat scenario of the basic nature of just being able to escort a convoy of ships through an asteroid field with a Wing of NPC ships who I can give basic commands to (attack this/defend that).
The Thargoid invasion underlines how shallow the mechanics are in the game - With years to prepare and get mechanics in place to then leverage with this event, we can do what?
Ultimately, why is it people want to risk opening up on a new Eastern front (with WASD), when we've making precious little ground on the existing one?
The game is four years old, and there's not even viable piracy/crime mechanics and careers? Bounty Hunting is just entering a mini-game where you shoot the never ending supply of suicidal Wanteds turning up... Surely, SURELY we can hope for more from the core Elite Dangerous gameplay, before seemingly giving up with it and moving into WASD risking yet another whole new slew of shallow, thin game mechanics?
I think the key to space legs is providing a reason to it that is not going to become tiresome or repetitive and makes sense and adds gameplay.
I would extend the Thargoid nests so that they have tunnels that only a person walking can get through and to disable the nest you have to destroy some sort of critical point along that tunnel. The nest would therefore either be active, disused or destroyed.
Next establish a link between the Thargoid ships and a nest. So a destroyed Thargoid releases a scannable signature identifying the system a nest is in. Now a player has a reason to explore, but also to attack the nest and another way of finding the nest.
If the Thargoids are also added to the galaxy map and perhaps as an npc power. The player has a reason to attack Thargoids, but also there is a purpose to walk around and it is contained in a localised area that has purpose.
This could easily be added as a chargeable addition as it's localised.
The same sort of approach could be applied to bounty hunting where you have space based persistent POI's that can be inhabited by wanted criminals. Only if you have the add on can you scan, land/dock and investigate. The POI would be most likely a ship, but could be an asteroid style land base, is constrained to a limited scope.
I would extend the Thargoid nests so that they have tunnels that only a person walking can get through and to disable the nest you have to destroy some sort of critical point along that tunnel. The nest would therefore either be active, disused or destroyed.
Next establish a link between the Thargoid ships and a nest. So a destroyed Thargoid releases a scannable signature identifying the system a nest is in. Now a player has a reason to explore, but also to attack the nest and another way of finding the nest.
If the Thargoids are also added to the galaxy map and perhaps as an npc power. The player has a reason to attack Thargoids, but also there is a purpose to walk around and it is contained in a localised area that has purpose.
This could easily be added as a chargeable addition as it's localised.
The same sort of approach could be applied to bounty hunting where you have space based persistent POI's that can be inhabited by wanted criminals. Only if you have the add on can you scan, land/dock and investigate. The POI would be most likely a ship, but could be an asteroid style land base, is constrained to a limited scope.
I don't want space legs. A lot of Dev time would be spent on this feature, which is of little interest to most people.
I think a lot of people Imagine it would be like being there. It wouldn't. It'd be like playing No Man's Sky. Stations are basically big warehouses with trucks coming and going. If that's what i want, I'll go into the office. I might even walk around the place. Yayyyy! - space legs!
I think a lot of people Imagine it would be like being there. It wouldn't. It'd be like playing No Man's Sky. Stations are basically big warehouses with trucks coming and going. If that's what i want, I'll go into the office. I might even walk around the place. Yayyyy! - space legs!
The part that worries me about space legs is adding a fun level of interaction into the game. At the moment our possible interactions are very limited and also buggy. Take the guardian ruins as an example, you go to an obelisk it lights up a required object and then you scan it and it gives you data, this has been so bugged over the past few years that it makes me wonder if we can have meaningful multiplayer interaction in the game.
More planets and biomes seem easier than getting the obviously difficult missions system to extend to cover base interiors and objects. Four years of work on the mission system has produced the most rudimentary fetch/collect/shot missions, the level of interaction I would like with NPC's and objects in a first person environment I fear may never be achievable in Elite, maybe in Elite Dangerous 2!!!??
More planets and biomes seem easier than getting the obviously difficult missions system to extend to cover base interiors and objects. Four years of work on the mission system has produced the most rudimentary fetch/collect/shot missions, the level of interaction I would like with NPC's and objects in a first person environment I fear may never be achievable in Elite, maybe in Elite Dangerous 2!!!??
It is achievable, but it takes way more work than people realize, especially because they are all PG.
Watch the Citizencon keynote presentation for an idea of what spacelegs may be like, see if you can sit through all of it.
For me this perfectly illustrates the amount of work involved in adding what could be a very dull walking simulator to ED. Making an entertaining walking simulator would be even more difficult.
The fact that it's taken CIG as long as it has, with getting on for $200 million (more?) thrown at them should make anyone demanding spacelegs take a breath and check their expectations of what is feasible and most important, fun and worthwhile gameplay.
For me this perfectly illustrates the amount of work involved in adding what could be a very dull walking simulator to ED. Making an entertaining walking simulator would be even more difficult.
The fact that it's taken CIG as long as it has, with getting on for $200 million (more?) thrown at them should make anyone demanding spacelegs take a breath and check their expectations of what is feasible and most important, fun and worthwhile gameplay.
Its good to watch star citizen as way to not do it. While I am all for space legs, what I don't want it to be is a generic shooter type addition which is pretty much what Star Citizen is.
Problem is that Chris and part of SC backers are a bit obsessed with Second Life approach for SC (thus ideas about having apartments and using transport system to get to your ship). There is middle way where some compelling gameplay lies. It is not easy and it won't be everybody's bag, but it will work.
If SC ever comes out, and ED gains space legs, they will be very, very different approaches.
So, late next year? (the new era of Elite), I was kinda hoping for atmospheric planets and some semblance of life, as in actual 3D NPCs not just still portraits, local planet bound shuttles, ground based vehicles with AI vs those perfectly spaced moving lorries in space stations, ground crew running around your landed ship, populated systems vs empty ones, etc.
Without that semblance of life, spacelegs would be beyond awful as you wander around deserted stations, exposing the sterility of the game world and galaxy...
Tho', people saying ED is too big to create all those 3D interiors, well, 95% of them are copy pasta of each other, so I'm guessing, not that much work to create a few corridors, rooms and RNG placed furniture, plus fixed camera placement controlled by WASD and bingo, spacelegs! Piece of [redacted]. Planets would require no work, just a spacesuit with limited air allowance, maybe a sneak key added.
Good point. I think that one really need to come up with compeling gameplay tied with legs (like good EVA repair gameplay or other such things)
Otherwise it'll be a redux of EVE/X rebirth fiasco : an immershun feature that provides no gameplay and/or makes task now requiring seconds into minutes.
Look at what SC is doing with legs : essentially a feature that allow you to travel slowly. Fun the first time, but after 10 times it'll feel like commuting.
I can't wait to see someone asking for immershun timers in starport menus because those not using legs are fast travel entitled iWin gamers XD