You're probably not alone, from what I've seen posted on these boards.
But I think we can safely say that the developer has a very different opinion.
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You're probably not alone, from what I've seen posted on these boards.
But I think we can safely say that the developer has a very different opinion.
I think it is safe to say the developer thinks differently also lol.
What surprises me there are so many posts on this it really is a deviding matter in the community which is a shame in itself because this game really needs more interesting player interaction.
But even if I put my sci fi PvP cap on (it's a rather big cap) I don't see it it just seems there are other space games out there with more interesting PvP.
Personally I think EVE is a far superior PvP space game. CCP built it ground-up with PvP in mind - nearly every aspect of the game is driven by competition and conflict. In fact, the game's player-driven economy would grind to a halt if there was not the continual destruction of people's stuff to drive demand!
Elite is built ground-up as a PvE game, with optional PvP elements that honour the cutthroat dystopian flavour of FDev's universe. I think that needs to be fundamentally understood to appreciate the designer's vision and direction.
Yup, this is exactly what ED is.
PvP is not a focus, but it can happen, randomly, sometimes at the hands of dongheads, because it's not a happy game wolrd.
Though the bar for what qualifies as "beyond playing the game" in an open world game where you make your own fun is necessarily very high, much higher than what anybody who isn't afraid of the ridicule associated with claiming harassment in the context of a video game would think.
Here's one example of harassment: trying to circumvent your ban from a specific player group to keep doing whatever it is that motivated that ban.
Here's another: stream-sniping a charity stream for the purpose of disrupting it.
Here's one that isn't: joining Mobius to kill other commander, again and again, while the Mobius team fumbles around with the admin tools to try and ban you.
Another one that still isn't: stream-sniping anybody not involved in a charity stream and confident enough in their abilities that they broadcast their location in the game world on Twitch.
And another one: killing shieldless traders trying to fulfil a community goal, even if it's a CG to save the pandas or free all the slaves.
And one that is in a grey-ish area: camping LHS 3447 and killing every new commander. It's distateful, it could probably do with a couple changes to the starting areas to make it harder, but ultimately there are worse problems to deal with first.
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I avoided Open for a long time but I've started venturing in more and more recently. I really like the extra tension you feel in Open sessions. If I'm doing something I consider too high risk and don't want to lose what I'm doing to a random at in their over engineered flying canon I just switch to a PG. I honestly don't see what is broken with ED's modes the way they are. Choose the one that suits on that particular day.
Full disclosure, however, I am on PS4 which is much quieter than PC. That said, I have run many missions out of ShinDez (notorious ganking blackspot) and only been interdicted twice. The first apologised when they saw I was unarmed and the second time I escaped (and thoroughly enjoyed doing so). The one other time I have been fired on in Open, I was at a Guardian site and another CMDR mistook my scanner blip for a sentinel and opened fire briefly before also apologising. So three attacks: two apologies and an escape.
Edit: The most frustrating thing to happen in Open recently, which caused me to switch to a PG, was another Python pad blocking at Robigo Mines. I got an apology for that too as they were AFK getting kids ready for school! They are now on my friends list.
Full disclosure, however, I am on PS4 which is much quieter than PC. That said, I have run many missions out of ShinDez (notorious ganking blackspot) and only been interdicted twice. The first apologised when they saw I was unarmed and the second time I escaped (and thoroughly enjoyed doing so). The one other time I have been fired on in Open, I was at a Guardian site and another CMDR mistook my scanner blip for a sentinel and opened fire briefly before also apologising. So three attacks: two apologies and an escape.
Edit: The most frustrating thing to happen in Open recently, which caused me to switch to a PG, was another Python pad blocking at Robigo Mines. I got an apology for that too as they were AFK getting kids ready for school! They are now on my friends list.
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Not in the slightest. By clicking open you agree that you can be attacked or do the attacking at anytime. Also, it’s interesting about the complaints of messages in game and such. The ones that complain about that never seem to fail in showing their support for those that complain and have nasty things to say about those that do the attacking. I’ve gotten some equally disturbing messages along with being told to off myself for simply pirating another commander. These nasty messages go both ways and yet because I’m a criminal no one seems to care.
Decided to visit Sol in ma ol' Krait, didn't realise that I was 'still' pledged to Alliance..... got killed by a Cmdr pledged to the Fed's... realised this after watching some of his xbox video clips, He was acting as a proficient 'police patrol'.... so my fault for not paying attention to my sensor display ( in defence I became spellbound by the beauty of Saturn )....
Initially being killed without any ingame comms prior to the event > really irked me ( I am but a emotional hairless ape after all is said and done ) 10 mins spent reviewing the occurance led me to understand and grudginly admire the Fed cmdr's combat skills ( taking into account my rather rusty piloting skills ( been playing Ghost Recon' for awhile recently )).
So there ya go. I just wanted to add my recent experience in Open FYI.
Initially being killed without any ingame comms prior to the event > really irked me ( I am but a emotional hairless ape after all is said and done ) 10 mins spent reviewing the occurance led me to understand and grudginly admire the Fed cmdr's combat skills ( taking into account my rather rusty piloting skills ( been playing Ghost Recon' for awhile recently )).
So there ya go. I just wanted to add my recent experience in Open FYI.
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Maybe I am not getting it but how do you pledge to alliance or federation?
I know you can pledge to powers but you can't pledge the greater powers can you?
Actually he was not a very good patrol if he shot first without inquiring what your business is in the federation that could spark of a interstellar incident lol.
I know you can pledge to powers but you can't pledge the greater powers can you?
Actually he was not a very good patrol if he shot first without inquiring what your business is in the federation that could spark of a interstellar incident lol.
To be fair, in game terms there is no murder, because players never die - there's only destruction of property.
And actually that is the reason why I have problems with Open - while plying Solo game world makes more sense - if I'm destroyed, I can suspend disbelief easily - it's like loading a save.
Game world is fantastic not because of FSD drive, but because it is full of immortals (in Open). They know it and act accordingly.
Of course MMO game wouldn't be possible without this kind of mechanism. It would probably be even worse if in-game destruction had more consequences - life inprisonment for criminal included.
I mean, if someone is a jerk, he will still be able to ruin other player experience just for the fun of it, while damage and grief he inflicts could be even more severe then - and I came to a conclusion that's why things are designed in this game in this manner.
There's actually very little that could be done to prevent that other than reporting players, blocking them and making it known in to all community what kind of behaviour is unacceptable - not that it would be easy to agree on that point
As for harrasment,
For me it's perfectly allright if someone plays as some evil incarnate, shooting innocents. Powerplay, piracy, any other kinds of in game motivations for destroying ships are obviously acceptable, but even shooting unarmed harmless vessels can be allright. After all we're not roleplaying police to ask everyone what their motivation was. Problem arises, when someone starts targetting a particular someone else - a player not interested in confrontation. This is crossing a line. But of course, there is a way prevent this, like blocking a player (a mean - I hope. I've never used this option before).
And as for bloodthirsty murderers, this could potentially even be fun - imagine that you want to f.ex to haul some cargo through a system where a killer is camping. He attacks and destroys everyone for the fun of it. You could ask other players for help in getting rid of him or protecting you - there are probably many that would find that a fun thing to do.
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I agree with most of your post, except the bolded (by me) part. For me, the persistent focus on one player (unless it's roleplayed on both sides) is what makes this harassment. Sure, the PG admins or the player themselves may struggle with blocking/banning the offending party, that doesn't make the offense less, and the pursuit into a private group with expressed rules against PvP just makes it more harrassing. Noob ganking is nearly the same to me.
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Killing clean players in Open is literally just piracy. It's part of the game. It's only harassment if you're doing it to the same person with the intent of getting a rise out of them or to fill the unending void of your own inadequacy.
I also agree with Underhill that going into Mobius (of which I am happily a member) and PvPing is definitely harassment. It's just an effort to turn the tables in your favor by going after players who almost certainly don't have PvP ships, skills, or intentions. It ruins the game experience of people who are clearly not interested in participating in PvP (the whole reason you join Mobius) and it completely disregards the rules of the group.
If you're in Open, you're consenting to reasonable player interactions. If you aren't capable of determining for yourself what is reasonable, maybe it's best if you find a PvP private group where you don't have to worry about those minutiae.
It's important to recognize that everyone wants to get something different from the game and to be respectful of their experience.
I also agree with Underhill that going into Mobius (of which I am happily a member) and PvPing is definitely harassment. It's just an effort to turn the tables in your favor by going after players who almost certainly don't have PvP ships, skills, or intentions. It ruins the game experience of people who are clearly not interested in participating in PvP (the whole reason you join Mobius) and it completely disregards the rules of the group.
If you're in Open, you're consenting to reasonable player interactions. If you aren't capable of determining for yourself what is reasonable, maybe it's best if you find a PvP private group where you don't have to worry about those minutiae.
It's important to recognize that everyone wants to get something different from the game and to be respectful of their experience.
I agree with you on some and fully disagree with you on others... one that may surprise you... killing shieldless traders trying to fulfil a community goal and feel the twitch one is a real grey area because they used their twitch to find the target. They didn't find them through playing the game and happen to PVP them. THey saw them on twitch and then went there with the express purpose of taking them out....
As for your Mobius barb about "fumbling Admins", which isn't true as they are pretty efficient at it, I fully disagree because again.... the person is purposely doing something to harass others. They didn't join to play the game, they joined to PVP those who specifically said they did not want to and went into a expressly PVE PG. With your thinking it isn't harassment and your insult to the admins of Mobius... were you one of the ones who got caught and removed and are trying to "defend" your own actions?
Personally I think EVE is a far superior PvP space game. CCP built it ground-up with PvP in mind - nearly every aspect of the game is driven by competition and conflict. In fact, the game's player-driven economy would grind to a halt if there was not the continual destruction of people's stuff to drive demand!
Elite is built ground-up as a PvE game, with optional PvP elements that honour the cutthroat dystopian flavour of FDev's universe. I think that needs to be fundamentally understood to appreciate the designer's vision and direction.
While I don't agree that the economy would grind to a halt in EvE if there was no PVP, I do think you are spot on with the other assessments of both games and how they were built.
I fully agree with this and I think it makes an important point. Using means outside the game to track people down is not only harassment in my mind, it's creepy and sad.
Really sad behaviour. Purposely tracking down someone streaming, or invading a purely PvE Private Group and destroying them speaks volumes to me. Lack of Moral Fibre I call it, but that could just be a British thing.
Open can be either friendly or hostile depending on a lot of things, it can also be as empty as solo depending on time of day regional location or where you are at in the simulated universe.
It can also be fun, or tedious.
Anyone who tells you different is probably trying to sell you something.
Regardless with the current system its an anything goes and while intent would be the deciding factor its pretty much irrelivant. People will be jack napes sometimes.
Perhaps a message "Buckle up Buttercup" when choosing open would help peoples outlook.
It can also be fun, or tedious.
Anyone who tells you different is probably trying to sell you something.
Regardless with the current system its an anything goes and while intent would be the deciding factor its pretty much irrelivant. People will be jack napes sometimes.
Perhaps a message "Buckle up Buttercup" when choosing open would help peoples outlook.
I think Open SHOULD be dangerous. But the danger should come with some kind of narrative or reward. I would gladly take my cargo Anaconda into Open if I were able to run cargo through battle lines between the Empire and Federation, with players in equivalent ships trying to stop me. The reality is, I get interdicted by a min/maxed PvP wing and blasted to pieces in seconds with no chance to defend myself, meaning I have to spend hours of my limited game time trying to earn credits back in solo or risk losing my ship. Where is the incentive to risk that?
I enjoy PvP, but only on a level playing field. The problem I have with Open is that there are no "zones" based on levels or anything, so I have to face people who have played this game for thousands of hours against whom my chances are nil.
This is true, however in the current system we have (rules and mechanics given by frontier) its just tilting at the wind.
There are many ideas, some good some not so much but unless FDev decides to change the game its all irrelevant.
Is killing a clean trader in an un shielded un armed ship who has a combat rank of harmless harassment? According to the current system the answer is no, is it good form? Well in my opinion no but some people obviously disagree.
I would say that a shieldless trader in Open is consenting, by being in Open, to facing player pirates. Those pirates CAN make the game interesting. Not so much when they can be in PvP geared ships that took hundreds of millions of credits and dozens of hours to craft at engineers, etc. The only thing those players say is "git gud" or some other brainless equivalent. Not everyone wants to play a high pressure combat simulator or has the time to "practice" at a video game. Since there is no way to balance who you are facing via some kind of combat score that instances you with players of similar skill, Open goes from being a potentially fun risk to new players potentially being ganked by groups of high level players who just seek to ruin their game experience.
It reminds me a bit of games with toxic PvP player bases like Rust, where people with machine guns rob and kill PCs in loin clothes trying to harvest wood to make a club. It's the disparity that is so frustrating.
Too true. Its almost as if some people have to be pillocks they just cant help themselves. With that being said its not every day you run into one of those.
Having the mode system is a great solution its not perfect. However until FDev give us a better system it does let players opt out of being sujected to the malcontents that cant help themselves.
This in not to say that every player who blows somone up is a pillock, but some effort to approach the act with consideration for the other player is not a bad thing.
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