Frontier you talked about the "traveler" style of exploration and misunderstood one key thing

[Lightspeed]

Repped for repping a well mannered response

I like the cut of your jib, sir .... have some rep

I hope I'll be. That plus another 100+ system is boommarked to be checked out in Q4 after I get back to the Bubble.

But each has about 80 landables, if a good portion of them contain POIs, 1 system might take me a week. That surely would be a good test whether the new mechanic will hold my interest.

That's a point - we are going to need more bookmarks !

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I like the cut of your jib, sir .... have some rep

Have some rep for repping someone giving out rep.

 

[WR3ND]

I hope I'll be. That plus another 100+ system is boommarked to be checked out in Q4 after I get back to the Bubble.

But each has about 80 landables, if a good portion of them contain POIs, 1 system might take me a week. ThT surely would be a good test whether the new mechanic will hold my interest.

Maybe a bit of an exaggeration, though considering play time per day and the like, maybe not. But yeah, for me doing some proper exploration, as it were, might very well mean that expeditions are much less viable. Too much just jump-honking along. But we'll see.

 

[Crusina Luachra]

My exploration style is identical to that of the OP, and I share their concerns. The new system will undoubtedly slow down the sight seeing form of exploration. Added to that, for me personally, it will also likely add to the time it takes me to create exploration based videos.

All that said, I'm of the opinion that the changes are worth the price. I'm happy to adapt to the new system, because it is clearly better in many ways. We will have to wait until Beta to test for ourselves of course, but my impressions are that the new exploration changes will make this an overall much improved game. If that means I lose my current exploration style, or (more like the case) have to adapt my exploration style, then I'm all for it!

Well said.

No matter what I'll adapt to any changes, something i should have been more clear about in my OP from the start.

Being worried/voicing concerns is not the same as saying you will not accept something ever.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Would be nice for them to add in new stuff to find beyond the main body count, like smaller objects that could otherwise clutter up the system maps. I think that's where these new mechanics can better shine.

I do believe that is the plan. So things like the lightening cloud could be a USS anomoly which you would need to scan. Then you can check it out on the orrery map to see where it is in relation to everything else in the system and plan your journey.

 

[CMDR Carbo]

Even just getting the body count on the honk without looking at the map would be nice. Is that still a thing? I've probably been through thousands of lone star systems.

You'll still get that just from the honk as you see in the image below top right corner. It states exactly how many bodies in the current system you have scanned and the total bodies in the system. After the initial honk it says 1, the main star, so there are 10 other bodies in the system.

The difference between "signals" and bodies might be USS or asteroids, not quite sure.

You also get a percentage in the bottom left.

 

[WR3ND]

...

That's a point - we are going to need more bookmarks !

∞ bookmarks > ∞ probes

 

[zzehirbazz]

I am wondering what the scenarios is going to be like? They should dedicate a couple of people to constantly add scripted scenarios to the game since we have the codex now.

 

[Ian Skippy]

That's the lovely delicious irony of it all. The very thing people are wrongly arguing as the motivator for those who would like to keep the information in the system map, becomes easier and faster than ever.

The cr/h explorer rejoices.

That isn't true. It isn't easier. Absolutely nothing can be easier than current exploration as it requires zero skill. But it will be faster indeed. Which is great! Because it means that for people who explore like I do we go from 'zero skill but tedious' to 'some skill/gameplay and faster'. To those who prefer 'fast with no gameplay' this will be a step back, because to them it becomes 'slower but with gameplay', which they dont like. Which is fine, there are many different types of explorers. But I for one am glad that FD seems to have solidly shifted towards gameplay over other considerations, and based on the reactions so far, and the criticisms in the past, it seems that this move is the right one.

 

[Crusina Luachra]

Here's why I like this system and why Genar and the Op can't agree with me. As I read through the thread I realised it comes down to a simple thing.

What *I* have always wanted is anaethma to what they want.

They can't be reconciled. That first HONK that revealed everything was always too damned easy for me. I wanted something to do, some gameplay added that involved me looking at readouts and interpreting things.

And that's finally what has come in.

I'm not saying what they want is invalid, in every single post on the subject, I've always stated I do understand why taking that away is going to make some people unhappy. But they're two opposing views 'insta-reveal' and 'want gameplay to reveal'. And sadly, there is no solution.

I think overall the improvements make a better game.

I still love you and your post despite disagreeing though =]

Thank you for the civil response =]

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

That isn't true. It isn't easier. Absolutely nothing can be easier than current exploration as it requires zero skill.

I would say not having to fly towards the object, but rather point a thingy towards the object is easier. All you have to know is where the ELW signature lives on the bar.

But my point remains each way. The cr/h explorer rejoyces. That was the irony.

Edit: easy can mean not complicated, but also with little effort. I think there's our disconnect.

 

[Crusina Luachra]

Indeed, one need to fly to them in the final step. The thing is that with the new system, the dud / good ratio is made worse by removing a lot of information from the first step, and
therefore require a second, lengthier step to go back to the same dud / good ratio we had before.

If said missing information (mainly orbital periods*, gravity and inclinations) could be seen from the Spectrum as distrotions of the "planet type signal", it would solve 90% of the issue here.
For example :

• High gravity : signal has a larger amplitude
• Low orbital period aka large speed : signal is broadened
• High inclination : the signal is tilted

See how that would make the issue go away ?

YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES ALJKFJA;LSDFJSAL;FJ;ALFJLA;SFDJAS;LFJAS;DLF

 

[Muetdhiver]

That isn't true. It isn't easier. Absolutely nothing can be easier than current exploration as it requires zero skill. But it will be faster indeed. Which is great! Because it means that for people who explore like I do we go from 'zero skill but tedious' to 'some skill/gameplay and faster'. To those who prefer 'fast with no gameplay' this will be a step back, because to them it becomes 'slower but with gameplay', which they dont like. Which is fine, there are many different types of explorers. But I for one am glad that FD seems to have solidly shifted towards gameplay over other considerations, and based on the reactions so far, and the criticisms in the past, it seems that this move is the right one.

I do not think genar, ziggy and others are asking for "ez". What is being asked is keeping some information in the spectrum beyond what's needed for credit farming.
Informations such as : gravity, orbital period, orbital inclination. That could be added to the "base" signal, which look like it will be rather trivial to read after a few hours
of use.

In that regard, it would require even more skill to read the display, not less, with the payout being more usefull information for people not just interested in : ELW ? Nope ? => Move on.

Our gamplay is slow enough, thank you.

 

[CMDR Carbo]

I do not think genar, ziggy and others are asking for "ez". What is being asked is keeping some information in the spectrum beyond what's needed for credit farming.
Informations such as : gravity, orbital period, orbital inclination. That could be added to the "base" signal, which look like it will be rather trivial to read after a few hours
of use.

In that regard, it would require even more skill to read the display, not less, with the payout being more usefull information for people not just interested in : ELW ? Nope ? => Move on.

Our gamplay is slow enough, thank you.

Yeah, but that wouldn't make any sense in the new system. How would you know the gravity or inclination of a body if you haven't found it yet or know their composition.

 

[lenna]

Yeah, but that wouldn't make any sense in the new system. How would you know the gravity or inclination of a body if you haven't found it yet or know their composition.

Discovery of either of those factors are not dependent on knowing body composition per se, relative position of bodies and notional vectors of travel can be used to determine relative gravity and inclination of their orbital planes.

 

[babelfisch]

Repped for a well mannered response [heart]

Repped for repping a well mannered response

I like the cut of your jib, sir .... have some rep



That's a point - we are going to need more bookmarks !

Have some rep for repping someone giving out rep.

Repped all of you hoping to get some rep in return.

 

[Thatchinho]

Well a good example of this is that id hazard a guess that MOST commanders have not found their own Geyser field... because currently they are nearly impossible to find without going to the forums or youtube to get some guides... or looking up locations on a database.

This scanning allows you to go and find the things you are interested to see, it isn't an I win button, but for the first time, a commander might be like "Oh an ice world with volcanic activity... oh it has polonium too... great lets go check the volcanic areas if it has some."

Rather than what we have now which is... Planet with Polonium... *sigh* do i really wanna drive about for an indeterminate amount of time.

Not only that but also for finding other places. This could potentially give the seeding of surfaces with ship graveyards which are pretty much impossible to find without tip offs or visits to forums. FDev could seed rumours or scenarios from what they have directly described that say "Sector 12 - An exploration fleet vanished, last system was x" and commanders now stand a realistic chance of finding the location without spending 4 days eyeballing each planet.

This extra game mechanic is a very positive addition. Yes id be disappointed if there were nothing else to find over what there already is... without wanting to assume too much I obviously have to wait, but it makes logical sense that giving us the tools to make finding stuff easier... they would give us more to find.

I mean that moon... what was it? 14 sites? there was rumour at one point that the max number of sites on a planet was 3... up until someone spent about a week doing a full on hardcore sweep of a planet and found 7.

*shrugs* I kinda feel people are uncomfortable with people praising a game developer these days that people have to find any negativity they can and let it flow forth. What they have done, is without doubt, orders of magnitude better than what we already have... and people still complain.

Welp. You've just described me. I love exploring. I haven't been any huge distances, but I've explored all the local nebula in about a 3KLy radius of the Bubble, plus a windy visit to Sag. A* and a stright run out to Colonia. Currently about 15KLy from Sol on another expedition to Beagle Point (going a long way, off the beaten track).

I never land on planets because I never see the point unless I see close orbits and whatnot that are good for screenshots...so it's a rarity. Sure I'll explore a system and take a look around interesting ones...the really interesting ones I'll scan the lot, but as for finding geysers, brains and so on...it's never crossed my mind as a part of the exploration I want to do. If my scan/mapping shows me where "mysterious things" are then I'd be all for it for that screenshot.

Yep.

And worth bearing in mind that Geysers (and other volcanics) are actually towards the easier edge of things to find:

- DSS scan tells you whether or not a body has them and the type, so you know straight away whether or not to check the surface

- They appear on the POI scanner so they'll be picked up when you're in the vicinty and there's no eyeballing needed, and the Glide Scan mechanism can be employed to increase the speed of the search

- They have a distinct size on the ships POI scanner, so you can go straight to the POI knowing what it's going to be and don't have to spend time searching POI indicator after POI indicator to find one of the type you're looking for.


Biologicals are much harder to find (expect Braintrees which are incredibly easy to find when you know where to look - they were hard to find until we established where to look though!) as there's nothing to indicate whether they're present. They still show distinctly on the POI scanner though so it's still not that bad.


Then there's all the stuff which doesn't appear on the POI scanner and has to be found via Mk I eyeball:

- The Dynasty Expedition secret sites in the Formidine Rift, Conflux and Hawkings Gap
- INRA bases
- Alien sites/bases/crashes/etc (Guardian sites only became detectable via the Nav Panel and HUD as a community reward for the first completion of the Ram Tah mission - they were Mk I Eyeball only before that)
- Etc.


Finding Mk I eyeball stuff has relied on:

- knowing there's something to find,
- having some idea of where to find it, and
- large numbers of players collaboratively searching (which itself relies on players knowing that there is a search taking place, how to search, how to collaborate with the rest of the search, etc. - almost all of which is completely out-of-game.)

And that's just planetary stuff.


Someone just playing the game on their own and using the current DS, DSS mechanics is basically never ever going to find any of that stuff. They may well not even ever know any of it exists.

FD are fundamentally changing that with the new mechanics, and people will get nudged towards all these things in game, and will at least have some chance of finding things which would previously been practically impossible for them to find. There is a negative side to it in that, the challenge/difficulty reduces drastically, and all peoples skills and knowledge on how to find all that stuff under the current mechanics may well become more or less completely redundant. Is it worth it? - Yes, it's absolutely worth it.

What FD are doing with 3.3 is going to make people aware of, and allow them to participate in, aspects of the game (including story related things) that they couldn't do, or weren't even aware of before. It's a big fundamental improvement to the game.

 

[Crusina Luachra]

The only people seriously being hampered will be the travelers who pretend to be explorers. This silly game will be over soon (the pretending part at least).

What is wrong with you people?

"putting your mark" is a bit of an ego trip. Nobody who is out in the black and sees your name actually cares who you are. One day the servers will be shut down and your "mark" will be gone forever. The only thing of lasting value that you might be producing with this game is your videos, and you don't need to have "put your mark" in order to make a video.

More importantly, there is another game that is better suited to the goal of showcasing amazing and beautiful things: space engine.



Don't get me wrong. I encourage you to keep playing Elite and keep making videos. But don't lose sight of the fact that Elite is a game about spaceships, it's not a game about the universe. There's another game for that.



Again, space engine.

Elite Dangerous is a game about space ships. It makes sense for there to be skill-based exploration in Elite. If you don't like it, that's fine, I respect your opinion, but there's a different game that is objectively better for the thing you want.

What is wrong with you.

If all honk-travelers could leave the game and the forum because of the new exploration mechanics, both the game and the forum would be much more healthy places. Unfortunately they will stay here, contradicting to any change that will make the game more interesting and engaging.

What is wrong with you?

I sort of half get the point you are making OP. But id also say that your idea of a traveller and explorer are somewhat flawed. What you have done is to make a definition that is 'You' and refuse to entertain the possibility that the changes are to fill a very large gap in exploration gameplay as I am sure has been pointed out.

I LITERALLY WENT OUT OF MY WAY TO STATE THAT THIS WAS MY OPINION AND CLEARLY STATED MULTIPLE TIMES I DON'T SPEAK FOR OTHER PEOPLE. I ALSO NEVER STATED I WOULDN'T ADAPT OR THAT THE VAST MAJORITY OF CHANGES WERE NOT NEEDED.

STOP MAKING STUFF UP.

There are many explorers who explore to find cool and interesting things, It's exactly why I explore. I don't do it to get money, I do it for the weird and wonderful. The planets with massive geological features such as tall mountains and deep canyons. Planets such a shepherd moons, planets and moons with odd orbits, close or contact binaries, enormous systems, unusual worlds with rings etc, the list are endless.

Uh yeah so do i.

This new system based on what I saw from the stream, has the potential to be very fast. No, not instant, but if you are talking about scanning everything, the actual amount of time to do a complete scan with details of a system is way way less than the original for large system.

Getting a detailed scan on everything will be vastly quicker yes...which is why I never touched up on it.

I recall one time doing this "Im going to DSS everything" and hit a system with 50 objects in it. It took me about an hour or so to get to every single object. Yes I could just ignore the planets I was not interested in, but i was up for the "i need to do everything" the way he describes it, you could probably get that whole system to a same level of information (details of geology, composition/materials etc) in about 15-20 mins when you get good at it.

At no point did EVER say that the entire system would be slower.

Same thing goes - The spectral analysis works quite well to filter too given you learn the system, that and the sounds as they describe. You can in theory look at that honk and think... do i need to look at this more or not... OP i feel that you are simply the exploration equivalent of the people who complain when their little tiny money making scheme was taken away (in a world where money = fun) for you no money is not fun but its the same complaint "You took my repetitive task away from me, you have ruined it!". Fdev have tried to make the experience richer, and this looks like a 500% improvement.

I NEVER SAID THE CHANGES WERE BAD. I ONLY COMPLAINED ABOUT ONE SPECIFIC THING.

I didn't say the new dss was bad. I didn't say the probe system was bad. I didn't say the new orrey map was bad. I didn't say ANYTHING about ANYTHING THEY CHANGED OR ADDED AS BEING A NEGATIVE EXCEPT THE POSSIBILITY OF IT TAKING MORE TIME TO GAUGE MY INTEREST.

You mention liking to find weird and wonderful... you ignored the fact that you can actually find surface features and geology really quickly now.

NO I DIDN'T. i JUST DIDN'T MENTION THEM.

Not mentioning something doesn't automatically mean I'm ignorant of its existence or its positives.

These sites are somewhat rare in the game currently, not because it is really rare, but because the surface area means they are hard to find. This is exactly what explorers needed... we needed to have this enrichment.

Which has literally ZERO BEARING on my OP.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Repped all of you hoping to get some rep in return.

Was going to rep you for transparence but ...

I'm all out of rep
I'm so lost without it

Stupid 24h rule [mad]

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

Repped all of you hoping to get some rep in return.

Repped for honesty.