Do we still see ED as being THE space game in 12 months?

[Ian Skippy]

And what better demonstration and use of your brainpower than to vacuously strut your stuff on some random forum thread in a corner of the internet dedicated to a game company whose games you don't play.

Lol, yeah. When you go around telling random people you are so smart, talk down other people's taste and preference and insist your subjective opinions are superior because of your big brain; something else of note about your neurological development appears to have occurred...

 

[DeletedUser191218]

Procedural generation is especially boring for intelligent people. My brain is really good at pattern recognition (which is a large part of any IQ test and also a video game skill), so when looking long enough at generated stuff, it intuitively recognizes all the patterns and repeats. At that moment, the "vast universe" illusion falls apart and gets deducted to what it really is: a small number of templates fed by a PRNG. Once you got there, you can't unsee it.

Funnily my pattern recognition skills are quite strong as well (as has been evidenced by my IQ test breakdown, the fact i studied maths and write music). I also think procedural geberation is incredibly dull. That's why i don't get the 'feeling' of a vast universe when it's all the same. I'd honestly by happy with half a dozen well crafted systems and then expansions opening other parts of a universe. I'm still to encounter a game that heavily utilises procedural generation that doesn't suffer badly from the boredom factor.

 

[DeletedUser191218]

Lol, yeah. When you go around telling random people you are so smart, talk down other people's taste and preference and insist your subjective opinions are superior because of your big brain; something else of note about your neurological development appears to have occurred...

I don't think they said their opinion was better. He/she offered an explanation of why their brain perceives procedural generation in a certain why. I agree the tone wasn't exactly modest but that doesn't invalidate the opinion expressed. In reality, the post didn't offend anyone directly. It could be argued that you, in the other hand, have.

 

[[VR] optimal_909]

Procedural generation is especially boring for intelligent people. My brain is really good at pattern recognition (which is a large part of any IQ test and also a video game skill), so when looking long enough at generated stuff, it intuitively recognizes all the patterns and repeats. At that moment, the "vast universe" illusion falls apart and gets deducted to what it really is: a small number of templates fed by a PRNG. Once you got there, you can't unsee it.

Truly intelligent people are humble towards all achievements and certainly not admire their own intelligence.

As this example proves, unfortunately most if not all things in the world do follow patterns.

 

[Ian Skippy]

I don't think they said their opinion was better. He/she offered an explanation of why their brain perceives procedural generation in a certain why. I agree the tone wasn't exactly modest but that doesn't invalidate the opinion expressed. In reality, the post didn't offend anyone directly. It could be argued that you, in the other hand, have.

You havent been around I guess. He's been here telling people they like the wrong games, that their console controller is worse than his, that VR is stupid and comparable with dumb cut-scenes. He used to be CIG backer, then got a refund and started calling people who were still backers idiots and so on. Besides, his latest was basically just "PG is stupid, but maybe you dont get that because your brain isn't as big as mine." Which is ignorant to the extreme.

 

[dubsdj]

I "honestly" believe within 12 months we will have some sort of atmosphere landing / game play so yes.

Space legs, I am not so sure but perhaps walking around your ship but anything more than that I think will be a bridge too far for this game. When I look at other games that aren't solely 3rd person but have the feature they tend to be rather clunky and human players walk into walls with their legs still moving and climb onto tables which just ruins the immersion.

If that other game finally delivers, then still yes because Elite has spent years tweaking things that aren't right. With the other game it will face all the same difficulties on full release. The other game has one advantage that it is concentrated on a couple of solar systems not an entire galaxy!

Keep up the good work FD.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Truly intelligent people are humble towards all achievements and certainly not admire their own intelligence.

As this example proves, unfortunately most if not all things in the world do follow patterns.

This generally extends to people with any skill or ability. Great composers dont randomly claim to be great composers on the internet, you dont see many athletes brag about their performance on unrelated forums etc. If you have any ability or skill, others will note it and comment on it. Look in the off-topic section: some people recently posted about their cycling activity. None of them went "look at my legs, I am an amazing cyclist, but maybe you lot dont understand it."

Because that would make you look like an idiot.

 

[Dooguk]

It isn't and anybody with a telescope can see that.

What have you seen in your telescope that proves that?

 

[jasonbarron]

The question is pretty subjective. Is ED even "THE" space game right now?

The fantasy sci-fi game for me would be the marriage between an Egosoft X game and ED's flight model and multiplayer. X games blow ED out of the water for single player sci fi experiences, but the flight model is pretty lacking, and based on videos I've seen of X4 I'm not convinced that's going to change, so I'll end up playing each for different reasons.

 

[Backer42]

Funnily my pattern recognition skills are quite strong as well (as has been evidenced by my IQ test breakdown, the fact i studied maths and write music). I also think procedural geberation is incredibly dull. That's why i don't get the 'feeling' of a vast universe when it's all the same. I'd honestly by happy with half a dozen well crafted systems and then expansions opening other parts of a universe. I'm still to encounter a game that heavily utilises procedural generation that doesn't suffer badly from the boredom factor.

In fact, the only way PRNG generation ever gets interesting, is when the algorithm screws up in some way due to bugs (aka human mistakes) and creates something unexpected like the Minecraft Far Lands. Ironically Minecraft's initially "broken" terrain generation was "fixed" multiple times to make it more "natural", which turned it into total boredom you usually get from procgen in its latest iterations.

Of course, you can't mention pattern recognition without somebody getting offended. It's like telling the reason you can't enjoy a range of smaller or "sporty" cars, because your height is above the average and you bump your head and knees. In certain cultures there is a "value" assigned to an otherwise neutral physiological attribute, so it has to happen.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Of course, you can't mention pattern recognition without somebody getting offended. It's like telling the reason you can't enjoy a range of smaller or "sporty" cars, because your height is above the average and you bump your head and knees. In certain cultures there is a "value" assigned to an otherwise neutral physiological attribute, so it has to happen.

Yeah, I hate it too when I'm in a culture where people get annoyed when I explain to them how intelligent I am. I guess those folks are just too narrow-minded or something, whatever. Btw, do you know of any fun parties? For some reason I am not invited to any recently...

 

[jasonbarron]

Yeah, I hate it too when I'm in a culture where people get annoyed when I explain to them how intelligent I am. I guess those folks are just too narrow-minded or something, whatever. Btw, do you know of any fun parties? For some reason I am not invited to any recently...

I'm super smart, but I can't figure out why more people don't recognize that and show me the proper amount of respect. Back to the drawing board, I guess....

 

[verminstar]

Yeah, I hate it too when I'm in a culture where people get annoyed when I explain to them how intelligent I am. I guess those folks are just too narrow-minded or something, whatever. Btw, do you know of any fun parties? For some reason I am not invited to any recently...

Thats cos yer too smart to intentionally do dumb things...people like that are always overthinking trivial things like consequences which is just boring...just sayin. Ye should come to one of mine...one time we put a mars bar in someones shorts and then applied some heat to melt it...guy woke up thinking hed soiled himself and tried unsuccessfully to politely leave. Got a message half hour later cursing us all...so funny at the time...maybe ye had to be there to appreciate it fully ^

 

[Mole HD]

Me?

Dumb as rocks...but hundreds of service personnel current and past still put their heels together and refer to me as 'sir' or Sergeant Major in polite company

I'm sure most of them have other names for me in private of course

Thats cos yer too smart to intentionally do dumb things...people like that are always overthinking trivial things like consequences which is just boring...just sayin. Ye should come to one of mine...one time we put a mars bar in someones shorts and then applied some heat to melt it...guy woke up thinking hed soiled himself and tried unsuccessfully to politely leave. Got a message half hour later cursing us all...so funny at the time...maybe ye had to be there to appreciate it fully ^

Haven't laughed so much since grandma caught her boob in the mangle [haha]

 

[Dooguk]

In fact, the only way PRNG generation ever gets interesting, is when the algorithm screws up in some way due to bugs (aka human mistakes) and creates something unexpected like the Minecraft Far Lands. Ironically Minecraft's initially "broken" terrain generation was "fixed" multiple times to make it more "natural", which turned it into total boredom you usually get from procgen in its latest iterations.

Of course, you can't mention pattern recognition without somebody getting offended. It's like telling the reason you can't enjoy a range of smaller or "sporty" cars, because your height is above the average and you bump your head and knees. In certain cultures there is a "value" assigned to an otherwise neutral physiological attribute, so it has to happen.

So you would like planets that defy the laws of physics. Floating islands in the sky and all that nonsense? As for pattern recognition, that is just our survival instinct kicking in. Trying to make sense of the world around us. Nothing to do with having a brain the size of a planet.

You lost me on the sporty car thing. What certain cultures are you referring to?

 

[mastermaniac]

So you would like planets that defy the laws of physics. Floating islands in the sky and all that nonsense?

No, what I'd like is a space simulation that focuses on something more substantial than pattern-based infinite repetition. As I said, it's good for background, but it doesn't cut it for foreground. Compare this with Space Engine. There's just no comparison, to put it simply.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to suss out the very simplistic patterns used by Elite's surface generation system to create planets. Planetary bodies take on one of a few basic geoforms, and the primary difference between them is coloration. It's extraordinarily barebones, but that's not really a problem. As a background element, it works fine. It does its job. However, this system of "infinite generation" cannot stand long in the spotlight. It doesn't produce content of a sufficient fidelity to facilitate interesting gameplay. What it does do is churn out a bunch of differently-colored spheres with slight terrain variations based on established, and easily-discernable, patterns.

Sometimes, less is more. If we had just one or two planets with the depth and detail of our real-life Planet Earth, or even a fraction of it, people would spend real-time years exploring and not even coming close to finding everything. I know this measure is a bit of an abstraction, but it illustrates my point: in Elite: Dangerous, once you've found an icy world, a metal world, a gas giant, an Earthlike, and a volcanic - and that is to say, you've looked at one in the system map - you've seen it all. They're all spheroids with quasi-random heightmaps.

The focus on naked randomization is immeasurably disappointing.

 

[Ian Skippy]

No, what I'd like is a space simulation that focuses on something more substantial than pattern-based infinite repetition. As I said, it's good for background, but it doesn't cut it for foreground.

Errr, what are you talking about? Stellar Forge is the background.

 

[askavir]

Truly intelligent people are humble towards all achievements and certainly not admire their own intelligence.

As this example proves, unfortunately most if not all things in the world do follow patterns.

True, also because truly highly intelligent people have a tendency to second-guess themselves because they are usually so open to new information that they keep redefining their own conclusions and "certainties". The more people know, the more people realize how much they also don't know. They also tend to not give that much of a fart about how other people see them (or care that much about "social" things in general), so claiming superior intelligence is definitively not a sign of superior intelligence at all. And being full of oneself is not a sign of intelligence either, it's just a sign of being full of oneself.

 

[MTBFritz]

the only game that can even remotely hope to de-throne ED for that title is X4 due to the outlined mechanics and content focus. When it comes to space flight ED wont have any competition in the next 12 months. Rebel Galaxy Outlaw will probably be very enjoyable (considering the last title of theirs) but its too arcady to scratch at EDs status IMO.

SC is all hype right now, when people talk about all those "massive improvements" I honestly dont see them...not when you consider how long it took them to get there and how much it cost to achieve. I doubt very much SC will be even close to release in 12 months or if it is it ll be a shell of a game that cannot offer what all those demos hint at.

Demos are of course the problem in this topic. You can argue that all games use them to selectively showcase the best sides of development or "hint" at certain aspects of the finished game without hard promising anything. ED certainly let a lot of people down who were hoping for a different kind of game that ED is today. Same can be said about NMS...actually there is a whole LIST of games who managed to hype their community to no end then were unable to hold up the expectations resulting in disappointment. What I learned from all those years of disappointed expectations in cases where I "allowed" teasers and trailers to hype myself is that demos aint worth the bandwidth on which I watch them.

Certain games pique my interest and remain on my radar due to their imminent release like RGO or X4, anything else that is barely at the start of its development releasing teasers or "gameplay" demos I usually bookmark to check back in a year or so. Most of those end up "discontinued" or "failed". Some that managed to get through all difficulties look a whole lot different to their first few demos because they had to change.

X4 is expected this november. It deserves interest and evaluation. I certainly am looking forward to how that will work out. It promises a lot of depth and the X-series is known to provide that but this time around I wonder if they can keep up the expectations when it comes to content. If they do then ED seriously needs to step up its game to keep the title.

Star Citizen...dont get me started (btw, we have a SC dedicated thread on this subforum) but thats a project that still is in pre-alpha, isnt feature-complete and already has transmorphed into a different kind of beast compared to its 2012 presentation. If we take CiGs past development speed its safe to say that nothing much will change in the next 12 months but maybe the much-touted "production pipelines" will finally kick in and boost the development rate with several orders of magnitude. It certainly is needed to bring forth a game in the next 12 months that even LOOKS like the demos we already have.

I m also sure that Frontier isnt resting on its lorries. I m sure there are limits to what they can do with the base they already produced but at least they dont go out and promise the world and the sky in order to make money. The fact that ED continues to stay online and release content patches isnt credited enough I think. Its unrealistic to think that it will keep its crown indefinately. Other games start out with advantages be it technical due to new hard and software or by design because the new projects learn from the old mistakes. For a game that is supposedly "miles wide but only an inch deep" ED has managed to outclass pretty much everything else for how many years now? Credit where credit is due I d say.

in the end 12 months is a long time. I m sure there will be a lot of new announcements for upcoming games trying to compete but realistically there are only so many (2 really imo....) who will come out in that timewindow allowing for evaluation and comparison.

 

[Ronzer]

For me, I'd think so.
Even though X4 and Rebel Galaxy Outlaw look pretty sweet, there seems to be a couple things lacking that I get in ED. First and foremost is that ED is connected. You can play solo or multiplayer but, even if not noticeable to some, it all effects the BSG. I may be wrong, but X4 looks great and has a lot of things I want to do, in it, but as far as I know it's single player. Someone correct me if I'm wrong on that.
Another is VR. Im watching the livestream the other day, seeing the UI improvements, the Codex, and just knowing that is all part of the package...I cant wait to see how it looks in VR. Dont get me wrong, there are other VR games I do enjoy, but for the space race? ED is fricken awesome. And, thats without them even incorporating the use of the hand controllers. To me, a lot of VR experiences go from ok to great just by the use of the controllers. If Frontier made use of the controllers, ED would go fricken awesome to insanely awesome. Everything else could just go home.
And though I like how Rebel Galaxy Outlaw is looking, I get this feeling they've played ED, and are sorta filling in some stuff from ED's suggestions forum. {ED forum suggestion: "Wouldnt it be great if in ED we had a place to meet up, when docked?" RGO: "...you even can have a place to meet up, while docked..."} Maybe that's not a very fair concern, since everything under the sun has been suggested there.

Am I going to check all those other space games out? For sure, and I hope they are as good as they look. But...I have been disappointed before (Mass Effect:Andromeda for me) and quickly go back into the safe arms of ED.