Modes Is attacking clean players (not npcs) in Open harassment?

[Bigmaec]

G5 Engineered FAS, PvP meta config... versus an unarmed Asp E.
or the Classic Anaconda sitting in Everate killing new Sidewinders.

The only thing that is "relative", is what side of the guns you're on.
Because those wanting a fair and decent PvP fight, don't go looking for newbies or defenceless targets.

Stalking a players is harassment, which is almost bang on the topic - harassment is even in the title.

Nobody forces the unarmed (unengineered?) AspE into open.
Killing noobs in Eravate I'm with you, though. That needs change/protection/a better sys sec implementation.

Stalking is NOT lurking in supercruise in a CG System killing everything that moves.

 

[Jockey79]

Nobody forces the unarmed (unengineered?) AspE into open.

Not for lack of trying though, just look at the screams for Open Only and who makes them.
It's not for the benefit or improved gameplay of the unarmed Asp E or unarmed T9 that's for sure.

You can see what they want on their own YouTube channels.
Because bullies just have to brag about their "victories" over the defenceless.

Killing noobs in Eravate I'm with you, though. That needs change/protection/a better sys sec implementation.

Mode locking the account to Open permanently upon killing another player would help.
Because having to rebuy the game and restart the engineers grind everytime they want a clean slate would help some folks think twice about splatting newbies for "fun"

Choices should have everlasting consequences.

Stalking is NOT lurking in supercruise in a CG System killing everything that moves.

Nope, that is a choice people are allowed to make, but as above - has little in the line of consequences.
Just have to clear the notoriety and start again. Not really a punishment is it, for being a murder hobo.

 

[Marra Morgan]

Not for lack of trying though, just look at the screams for Open Only and who makes them.

Don't worry about it - never going to happen.

Mode locking the account to Open permanently upon killing another player would help.
Because having to rebuy the game and restart the engineers grind everytime they want a clean slate would help some folks think twice about splatting newbies for "fun"

As above.

 

[Dietger]

Evening.

Jockey, OP didn't want to discuss criminal harassment as he called it, so I say its OT in this discussion. Killing Sidies in your god_like_cutter is no sport, bad show but legitimate. C&P is for that. There is a shield meta everyone seems to complain about, I guess Frontier will keep it Protect your self.

Frontier keeps the game open, its liberty is at risk, if we need a "Patriot act" for safety. Elite remains free. PvP being a minor thing, there is even less harm done thru grieving I think.

S!

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

What's your opinion on this question today:

Is attacking other players (not npcs) in Open "harassment," if those players are clean, law abiding, and not attacking you?

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UPDATE: Not Asking About Criminal Harassment

Several posters thought I was talking about "criminal harassment?" I was not. I was asking if other players thought attacking a clean player minding his own business was harassing that player, aka harassment.

DEFINITION: Words Have Meaning

I also found many did not know the official definition of Harassment and Harassing, and it might help them to understand the dictionary has example usage of such words, including, "the squadron's task was to harass the retreating enemy forces."

BULLYING AND CRIMES: Please report them at once

I hope we can all agree insulting people, cyber bullying and stalking, and criminal harassment (physical and verbal) are all bad things, and if we believe a TOU or COC or Law has been broken that we should report it to the correct people.

I also hope most of you know that it goes without saying that shooting someone in a video game does not fall into the above categories, even if you feel like you're being harassed by "player killers" as you're simply trying to have fun. If that happens to you, by all means do the obvious and play in solo, PG, or join Mobius PG, because Elite's Open mode is unlike other open world games as it really is an "Open PvP mode."

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Original Post continued below:

Note: While similar questions have been posted in the forums previously, I was wondering what everyone thought about this now that we've had some time to experience the results of FDev's C&P changes.

Obviously irl if you hurt someone minding their own business obeying the law, it definitely IS harassment. But is it harassment to do the same in a game?

Also, if Elite is meant to be a fun game, should players in Open have the option to opt into (or out of) PvP? Or, if Elite is meant to be realistic, shouldn't murder in game result in life imprisonment?

What's your thoughts?

MY OPINION:

For me, attacking clean players in Open who are obviously not engaging in combat is like a interrupting a public chess game by knocking the table over.

While not prevented by design (and obviously allowed / legal in game,) I do think it is harassing / greifing / annoyingly bad behavior which I believe leads most players to play in Solo or PG, but that's just one player's opinion!

What we believe has little bearing.
People often believe things that are silly and wrong, even when presented with evidence.

The answer is no.
Please read #s 2 and 5.

 

[Marra Morgan]

What we believe has little bearing.
People often believe things that are silly and wrong, even when presented with evidence.

The answer is no.
Please read #s 2 and 5.

Thanks Bob, that spells out Frontier's stance very clearly.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

Thanks Bob, that spells out Frontier's stance very clearly.

My pleasure.
In a game with relatively little clarity and direction for players, it's nice to have that bit spelled out.

 

[Wolf Starslayer]

Just because FD are ok with ganking and bullying in open, doesn't make it ok; if you are intentionally upsetting other players you're a person who has chosen to harass others, not something I'd be proud of...

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

Just because FD are ok with ganking and bullying in open, doesn't make it ok; if you are intentionally upsetting other players you're a person who has chosen to harass others, not something I'd be proud of...

They are exactly who get to determine what is ok.
I can't make anyone get upset and no it's not harassment to killl CMDRs.
Playing the game as it was designed and explicitly explained is not bullying.
You're making up things.

What players don't get to do is insert their subjective and misplaced morals all over the place, thankfully.

 

[Wolf Starslayer]

They are exactly who get to determine what is ok.
I can't make anyone get upset and no it's not harassment to killl CMDRs.
Playing the game as it was designed and explicitly explained is not bullying.
You're making up things.

What players don't get to do is insert their subjective and misplaced morals all over the place, thankfully.

They get to say allowed in game, not in social norms/life; if someone is happy being the kind of person who intentionally harms your fellow man for no other reason then salt/makes you feel good, with no in-game reason or advantage then it says deal about them.

Own being a bully, don't make excuse's, if you love salt harvesting you are a digital bully.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

They get to say allowed in game, not in social norms/life; if someone is happy being the king of person who intentionally harms your fellow man for no other reason then salt/makes you feel good, with no in-game reason or advantage then it says deal about them.

No one is being harmed.
That is silly.
No one is talking about real life.
My Cmdr is flying the ship.
Feeling good is the point of playing games.
If this game doesn't make someone feel good, I don't think they should play it.
That would be unhealthy.

Own being a bully, don't make excuse's, if you love salt harvesting you are a digital bully.

Right, and you're the one here throwing around attempted insults, based on no evidence.
That's usually how it works.
Nice job.

 

[Wolf Starslayer]

I know no other word for those who intentionally upset others, it doesn't matter which medium.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

I know no other word for those who intentionally upset others, it doesn't matter which medium.

And again, you don't have that power over me, nor I over you.
It even says it in the FDev email I posted.

You also have no evidence I've done anything of the sort, so if anyone is being a bully, it is you.

 

[Riverside]

They get to say allowed in game, not in social norms/life; if someone is happy being the kind of person who intentionally harms your fellow man for no other reason then salt/makes you feel good, with no in-game reason or advantage then it says deal about them.

Own being a bully, don't make excuse's, if you love salt harvesting you are a digital bully.

I do agree with this. I also think it's okay to disagree with the rules applied while continuing to work within them. The 15 sec 'ship in danger' timer is a good example of this. It's just what the rules are right now, not necessarily what they should be or what they will continue to be. Devs have to draw a line in the sand somewhere.

 

[hypervoodoo77]

And again, you don't have that power over me, nor I over you.
It even says it in the FDev email I posted.

You also have no evidence I've done anything of the sort, so if anyone is being a bully, it is you.

Damn it who fed the troll??
Don't feed the troll it's like putting water on mogwai past midnight.

Sorry couldn't resist.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

I feel like some haven't heard the term troll here.

 

[Brrokk]

I see some truth in both sides of this debate.

Yes, FD have given us complete freedom to act however we want towards one another.

Yes, someone who acts like a bully probably is one. (It could be part of an elaborate roleplay, but I'll go with the simple explanation unless another explanation is offered).

I don't accept that "it's just a game" if the persons motivation is just to use the game we're playing to spoil my leisure time. That's actually RL, in his head at least.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

I didn't realize Elite players were also mind readers.
Fascinating...

 

[Dietger]

I see some truth in both sides of this debate.

Yes, FD have given us complete freedom to act however we want towards one another.

We do.
And then we can not.

Not when all we have is combat.

Frontier, please make Elite combat more communicative. Let us talk. Instantly.

 

[CMDR M. Lehman]

So much hand-wringing over what is and isn't bullying in a video game, when "solo" and "private group" are just a click away...

But honestly: if you're even pondering whether or not a setback in a video game constitutes real life bullying (barring verbal abuse over comms, of course), open is probably not the mode for you. In fact, Elite itself might not be the game for you. Can you imagine walking up to a child, bruised and bloodied on a playground or in their home, picked on for being weak or different or new, and even thinking of you- a grown adult- placing a rebuy screen on equal footing to their situation? Can you even comprehend the utterly pathetic weaksauce that is "yeah, you were just beat up by your classmates/parents, but what about the fact that I lost a spaceship in a video game for thirty seconds?"

Infantile manchild rubbish.