∞ probes?

[bitstorm]

in my totally biased opinion if ever there was proof that the majority is not always right it was the result of the last one.

That said, when in a discussion forum, discussion of opposing views should be encouraged and not ridiculed imo.

As I've said, my issue with it is it's discussion without having tried it. It's uninformed and misses nuance.

There are many factors that will play into Exploration, some will be more important than others, it's really easy (in the internet) to pick up on some detail and have everyone polarised into extremes on that, without really having any experience of the thing being argued about.

At the end of the day exploration has to be fun, engaging, have longevity, provide a sense of discovery, and probably a bunch of other stuff.

Infinite or non-infinite probes really is on the periphery of what's important, it's a minor detail at this time. What is important is the *reason* people are leaning to one or the other, and so many factors can play into that "backing reason".

I'm gonna generalise a touch, but people who don't want infinite are probably really saying they don't want frustrating grind in there. But exploration may have infinite probes and still be grindy.

And vice versa, limited probes without grind is a possibility.

 

[M00ka]

As I've said, my issue with it is it's discussion without having tried it. It's uninformed and misses nuance.

There are many factors that will play into Exploration, some will be more important than others, it's really easy (in the internet) to pick up on some detail and have everyone polarised into extremes on that, without really having any experience of the thing being argued about.

At the end of the day exploration has to be fun, engaging, have longevity, provide a sense of discovery, and probably a bunch of other stuff.

Infinite or non-infinite probes really is on the periphery of what's important, it's a unimportant detail at this time. What is important is the *reason* people are leaning to one or the other, and so many factors can play into that "backing reason".

I'm gonna generalise a touch, but people who don't want infinite are probably really saying they don't want frustrating grind in there. But exploration may have infinite probes and still be grindy.

And vice versa, limited probes without grind is a possibility.

But if we wait until BETA (or worse, the update drops) then any claims we make on whether infinite probes are either the work of the devil or the best thing since penicillin can be verified and confirmed, and that above all else will stifle discussion. We all know that any facts will just ruin a good thread!

 

[Vash627]

I thought it was a shoutout to the Mobius group.

I've never played in the group so I wouldn't have caught that reference.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I'm gonna generalise a touch, but people who don't want infinite are probably really saying they don't want frustrating grind in there. But exploration may have infinite probes and still be grindy.

And vice versa, limited probes without grind is a possibility.

i am not gonna disagree here..... Roght now i am only commenting on probes and not the mechanics themselves for exactly the same reason you have said above. i need to suck it and see,

unlimited or not however i feel completely comfortable stating what i would like, just like i was confortable wading in on timed or fast travel ship delivery.

now...that said, there is absolutely a wrong way to do finite probes

I would suggest a right way would be to have any materials needed the sort which we will get by naturally exploring. Ideally we would not need to go massively out of our way to find the mats but getting them should be a natural part of exploration. in the long term i hope horizons becomes the main game, however until then it is of course vital that they can be gotten from usses (wrecked exploration ships full of probes makes total sense) and of course rings and asteroid belts.

for those out in the black, i think a 1 time only deal of logging in when update goes live have have an option of having a mining laser put on a hardpoint with any potential weapon it replaces being stored.

the exact details of the numbers of mats needed can then be balanced in beta... but infinite... vs non infinite...... to me seems a choice of "no gameplay tied to it" vs "game play options surrounding it".

I also love the idea of being able to carry extra limpts as cargo which can be armed or jetisoned to other ships.... (both players and npcs)

 

[Old Duck]

I want infinite probes.

I want them because I think crafting is a lazy game mechanic used in the absence of a better idea.

I agree with this regarding crafting and material gathering in Elite Dangerous. I actually like the crafting system in games that do it right. Making arrows from sticks and metal shards in Horizon Zero Dawn is much more natural and logical than "crafting" incredibly advanced technology by shooting rocks and putting the dust in a magic 3D printer. This is why I avoid all but the basic synthesis (SRV fuel & repairs mostly).

 

[who?]

Normally I hate "infinite" anything, but this doesn't really bother me too much.

If they hid the infinite symbol, and just showed 'reloading' periodically.. it might be slightly better. Or - if needed - require engineering for reload, but make the engineering very generous (1 synthesis = 1000 probes etc.).

Some of the rules in the game are amusingly arbitrary. We have the resources to 'print' multiple fighters on board, but if the cockpit blows we run out of air in just a few minutes. When our ship is destroyed we can't bring our data with us, but we can bring enough materials to (say) refill the 500Kg tank in our SRV multiple times over.

 

[Factabulous]

If they hid the infinite symbol

yeah, they had to put that in specially, where it would have been less triggering for the immersionites to just leave it out.

 

[Old Duck]

Some of the rules in the game are amusingly arbitrary. We have the resources to 'print' multiple fighters on board, but if the cockpit blows we run out of air in just a few minutes. When our ship is destroyed we can't bring our data with us, but we can bring enough materials to (say) refill the 500Kg tank in our SRV multiple times over.

Totally agree, the game is an assemblage of a variety of mismatched parts. Elite Dangerous on the left and Frontier on the right:

Don't get me wrong, I still love my little monster, except for these bugs (even Frankenstein has better skin than my cockpits on PS4).

 

[VR SenseiMatty]

Isn't the risk that we've gone from one extreme to the other though?

Currently to find many planetary POIs you have to actually eye-ball them.

With the new mechanic, while sitting at the sun, within a minute or two you'll have a indication that a planet has X geological features and X unknown features etc?

You need then only go to that planet and fire probes, and voila...


Almost risks being too easy don't you think? Tricky balance isn't it!

Yep, I would have preferred that probes identified only the areas with POI (few sq.km) and then we should have looked for them exploring the surface with the ship or with the SRV but the description is very generic "Geological Feature" so we still have to figure out what it is on the surface (rare materials, geyser, lava spouts, other stuff...)

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

I don't care. As long it's not a chore to play around with. Which is always a possibility in ED since 2.1.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

The Energizer Bunny broke down a few pages ago, but this is still going.
Pretty impressive for a thing that isn’t even a thing yet.

 

[Rat Catcher]

I played in Open and got ganked...

(cue another 72 pages...)






Sorry - forgot who suggested it








I always tell lies and never tell the truth.

 

[Julio Montega]

Isn't the risk that we've gone from one extreme to the other though?

Currently to find many planetary POIs you have to actually eye-ball them.

With the new mechanic, while sitting at the sun, within a minute or two you'll have a indication that a planet has X geological features and X unknown features etc?

You need then only go to that planet and fire probes, and voila...


Almost risks being too easy don't you think? Tricky balance isn't it!

Being too easy implicates there is any difficulty or risk at all.
With infinite probes there is not.
Yes it is swinging from extreme to extreme.

 

[Alecz]

Why are you bringing real life into this? We're playing a game. Not working a 9 to 5.

So this is why NMS is so successful? They focus on a game completely foregoing realism and then it's criticized on this forum because ED is more realistic than NMS lol!

...
Also, the Corvette is mostly invincible, to NPC's at least. I did watch a video today of a dude in a Beluga beating one, he took out the shields and PP with Torpedos, ran out of ammo and then just rammed it to death. Took like 20 rams. Was the most ridiculous battle I'd ever seen.

That was a beluga vs an Anaconda: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BI_ydMI9O7w
The claim is that the Corvette is invincible against NPC.

...
Synthesizing probes is different as it would render all smaller ships useless for exploration unless they were buffed to carry more internals, that would have knock on effects on all the other ships and game balance. There's also an issue with non horizons owners. Far too much unnecessary work for such a trivial issue.

What is the issue with non horizons owners collecting mats for probes from USS's ? No need to land, no need for SRV, no need for mining. Just drop in USS in the black where it is much more likely to get "Exploration Probe Wreckage" that you can synthesize in new probe ammo.

On my way to Elite in exploration.
I'm looking forward to the new mechanics so I can get my remaining 47%.
I hate driving the SRV so infinite probes means I can carry on doing what I set out to do without an annoying distraction. Job's a good 'un.

If probes can be synthesized from materials collected from USS, you don't need an SRV.

 

[Stigbob]

If probes can be synthesized from materials collected from USS, you don't need an SRV.

Wah there's a USS way out in the black where nobodies been now my immersion hurts.

 

[Factabulous]

Just drop in USS in the black where it is much more likely to get "Exploration Probe Wreckage" that you can synthesize in new probe ammo.

Ah, are they the wrecked version of the Exploration Probe Resupply drones that top up my infinite probe supply as I travel? Neat!

(Not sure how they got wrecked though - what's the lore behind that?)

 

[CMDR Redcrest]

So this is why NMS is so successful? They focus on a game completely foregoing realism and then it's criticized on this forum because ED is more realistic than NMS lol!


That was a beluga vs an Anaconda: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BI_ydMI9O7w
The claim is that the Corvette is invincible against NPC.



What is the issue with non horizons owners collecting mats for probes from USS's ? No need to land, no need for SRV, no need for mining. Just drop in USS in the black where it is much more likely to get "Exploration Probe Wreckage" that you can synthesize in new probe ammo.



If probes can be synthesized from materials collected from USS, you don't need an SRV.

Or we could all stop complaining about a thing we haven't even tried yet.

This lack of proper science in the testing of new features is killing my 'i' word.

Why bother collecting from USS's, if I'm out to explore then I want to do that not clart on gathering stuff to make probes because somebody on the forums said I have to.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Wah there's a USS way out in the black where nobodies been now my immersion hurts.

fair point however if you look at the map and where players go, there is a peppering of dots everywhere and that is just the CMDRS who bothered to register...... the odd wrecked ship which didnt make it home would not be too much of a stretch imo... also as i suggested before, on 1st logging in after the update i would suggest giving all players the option of having a mining laser fitted, so all could get the materials.

hell, who said the wreck had to be human, it could be parts of an asteroid or even unidentified ship parts?

either way, its all gameplay stuff which is imo better than no gameplay stuff.

edit

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...ap-timelapse-showing-ED-exploration-over-time

this afaik is just EDSM users and also over a limited time period, so there is far more areas covered now... so wrecked stuff out in the black is not so far fetched imo.

 

[Stigbob]

fair point however if you look at the map and where players go, there is a peppering of dots everywhere and that is just the CMDRS who bothered to register...... the odd wrecked ship which didnt make it home would not be too much of a stretch imo... also as i suggested before, on 1st logging in after the update i would suggest giving all players the option of having a mining laser fitted, so all could get the materials.

hell, who said the wreck had to be human, it could be parts of an asteroid or even unidentified ship parts?

either way, its all gameplay stuff which is imo better than no gameplay stuff.

Its not really exploring if you rely on salvage from the guy who beat you to it. Its like Amundsen stopping to go through Scotts pockets on his way to the pole.

 

[Factabulous]

either way, its all gameplay stuff which is imo better than no gameplay stuff.

yup - it's all gameplay stuff - that needs adding and testing in the remaining ... 3 work days before beta (according to some). Or they can just leave it as infinite and see how it goes. Not sure which way this will go