∞ probes?

[Julio Montega]

Like what? Specifically, like what that doesn't end with "Controller".

Or would you prefer they did nothing with the Discovery Scanners at all, and instead gave us yet another "Controller" module, that distant Explorers will not have access to and require cargo space and add mass to ships, reducing their jump capacity while carried?

No i stand by my proposal to make the DSS module a scanner and probe launcher.

I'd like to see the infinite approach on having the module do a scan at where you are aiming
on the body you want to map, but also allow to have ammo as a secondary fire to that module,
launching ammo based probes to circumnavigate the body and scan it faster with a wider area of coverage.

On top of that refilling probes could be tied into synthesis, but also in recovery by USS hopping finding whole operational probes,
or parts of them for cheaper resynth using materials that are available via mining to keep non-horizons in the exploration boat.

Additionally add MC functionality to allow the gunner to actively maneuver them, like an SLF in SC scanning the planet.
MC does need incentives direly.

 

[[DOOK] Droogie]

No i stand by my proposal to make the DSS module a scanner and probe launcher.

I'd like to see the infinite approach on having the module do a scan at where you are aiming
on the body you want to map, but also allow to have ammo as a secondary fire to that module,
launching ammo based probes to circumnavigate the body and scan it faster with a wider area of coverage.

On top of that refilling probes could be tied into synthesis, but also in recovery by USS hopping finding whole operational probes,
or parts of them for cheaper resynth using materials that are available via mining to keep non-horizons in the exploration boat.

Additionally add MC functionality to allow the gunner to actively maneuver them, like an SLF in SC scanning the planet.
MC does need incentives direly.

Sounds like busy work.

 

[Julio Montega]

Sounds like busy work.

Compared to what particularly already existing game mechanic?
Mapping is a new QOL feature, with infinite probes comes just infinite spam.

 

[[DOOK] Droogie]

Compared to what particularly already existing game mechanic?
Mapping is a new QOL feature, with infinite probes comes just infinite spam.

Collecting materials for synthesis is just busy work. It isn't interesting or engaging. It's just waiting for RNG to go your way so you can get back to doing what you really want to do. It's busy work. Just a time sink for the sake of a time sink.

Infinite spam is better than shooting rocks for prizes. There's an incentive to be efficient. If you don't want to, then you can map it and move on. Or go investigate something that you're actually interested in doing.

 

[Julio Montega]

Collecting materials for synthesis is just busy work. It isn't interesting or engaging. It's just waiting for RNG to go your way so you can get back to doing what you really want to do. It's busy work. Just a time sink for the sake of a time sink.

Infinite spam is better than shooting rocks for prizes. There's an incentive to be efficient. If you don't want to, then you can map it and move on. Or go investigate something that you're actually interested in doing.

Synthesis and material gathering is not interesting, i get that,
but what about sitting in SC and plastering an icy planet with drones at minimal user input?
Is that interesting, especially with the knowledge you can do it all day, due to infinite probes?

 

[[DOOK] Droogie]

Synthesis and material gathering is not interesting, i get that,
but what about sitting in SC and plastering an icy planet with drones at minimal user input?
Is that interesting, especially with the knowledge you can do it all day, due to infinite probes?

There is user input. You can apply skill to doing it through the arc. You get rewarded for doing so. I don't see how shooting rocks for prizes would improve this in any way.

I want to scan the planet and look for interesting things. If there are interesting things, I'll land on it. If not, I move on. If there's nothing interesting down there, there nothing added by having to land on it and shoot some rocks when I could move on to the next one and find something interesting.

You're too worried about what other people are doing. Why do you care? Are you going to just spam them? If you are, then you're the problem with yourself.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

No i stand by my proposal to make the DSS module a scanner and probe launcher.

Unless I missed something in the live stream, this IS what they've done. It's just more complex than the plain old boring point-and-wait scanner that it use to be. Now it fires a "probe", up to 3 at a time, so if your plan is just to pepper planets with as many as you can fire off, well, that number is 3.

I'd like to see the infinite approach on having the module do a scan at where you are aiming
on the body you want to map, but also allow to have ammo as a secondary fire to that module,
launching ammo based probes to circumnavigate the body and scan it faster with a wider area of coverage.

I do not want this. I hate the point-and-wait scanning method so much I made Elite in Exploration without ever traveling more than 6400 ly. I welcome this change wholly.

On top of that refilling probes could be tied into synthesis, but also in recovery by USS hopping finding whole operational probes,
or parts of them for cheaper resynth using materials that are available via mining to keep non-horizons in the exploration boat.

Additionally add MC functionality to allow the gunner to actively maneuver them, like an SLF in SC scanning the planet.
MC does need incentives direly.

We use our Discovery Scanners without needing to synthesize what they are calling "Energy Pulses" and no one's complained to date.
As I've said, in this same thread, is that we don't actually know what these "probes" even are. For all we know they're little more than a dense energy mass, but "probe" not only takes up fewer characters, it is an easier concept to grasp than "High Density Omni-directional Topographic Coherent Plasmic Energy Charge".

But I would postulate that such an energy charge would not be something "recoverable", "rechargable" or even require synthesis to produce. It is merely energy condensed, focused, and directed by our DSS systems, that due to the density of the energized particles, show a distinctive trajectory when acted upon by gravitational fields.

And, if I recall from the live stream, MC members will be able to use the new scanning and sensing system.

The last part of your post suggests a "Ship-Launched Research Vessel", a fighter-alternative, rather than what we're getting anyways.

On an completely unrelated note, I would love to see one of these "probes" from the perspective of an SRV on the surface.

 

[andrewg_oz]

Sounds like busy work.

That describes the entire probe mechanic, regardless of the number of probes.

 

[[VR] Merkir]

What you have currently just is another window dressing, that will lead to probe spam to save time.
Basically it is a minigame that just is superfluos, as the probes are unlimited and there is no incentive to learn,
hitting the minimum probe amount just adds measly credits.

Disagree. Spamming probes won't save time. During the reveal, FDev said you can only fire 3 probes at a time. There's huge incentive to aim carefully and correctly to save time.

Edit: Especially for players like me who have limited play time and also don't want the tedious added busy work proposed in this thread.

 

[Exeider]

Since you're in the OCD hardcore scan everything explorer group, any thoughts on this : https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/451413-probes?p=7110816&viewfull=1#post7110816

Finite without crafting?

So infinite but with extra steps.

Completely lore breaking but at this point, lore is just out the window.

The problem I have with this is, that it doesnt really achieve the goal that the finite probes people want, which is to make exploration "meaningful", what ever the hell that means

While at the same time just adding extra steps to infinite probes and thus negating the point of them.

The problem with this whole debate is it presupposes that exploration will be magically made meaningful just because probes are finite or conversely not meaningful because they arent.

The whole conceit is wrong. What will make exploration meaningful is actually finding stuff, the "Star Trek" factor. Which is what explorers really want.

When we watch an episode of star trek, we are watching the exciting encounters, new life and civilizations.

We never see the times where the crew of the enterprise are spending weeks at high warp just getting somewhere but ultimately doing nothing because that makes a boring TV show.

Elite is a real time experience, with exploration that means the reality of real exploration, which is mostly boring times punctuated by moments of pure excitement.

The real exploration issue is how do we allow the player to organically find fixed things in the galaxy while also giving them enough "scripted" things to not die of boredom.

Because in elite it is possible to be unlucky enough to be passing all these exciting things and say, " this job sucks, there's nothing out here"

While the commander behind you is picking all the alien artifacts, sleeping with green women and negotiating treaties and shouting, "this is the best job in the galaxy"

The question is how do we balance the fixed things that can be missed, with putting things in the commander's path that literally cant be missed, to keep the explorer entertained.

This probes debate is really just a strawman of THAT larger discussion.

At least that's my two credits.

 

[Whiteball]

The real problem with exploration is that there isn't one but people keep looking for one. It is what it is because of the type of game ED is.
If you want to find lush vegetation, weird structures, aliens or any other such stuff you want to play something else.
ED by it's very nature of being more 'sim' like and based a little more in 'reality type' stuff than an over the top action/arcade game means that for the vast majority (practically eveything, everywhere) will be barren and boring with nothing to actually find or explore.
You can explore space and find more space or explore barren planets and find, well, a barren planet.

The mini game of probes (as eveyone seems to be calling it) is actually something to do in an otherwise empty (by nature) pursuit of 'exploring'.

 

[Weps]

During the reveal, FDev said you can only fire 3 probes at a time. There's huge incentive to aim carefully and correctly to save time.

Can you point the exact time in the livestream where they say that? Because I have combed the video footage and can't find it.

From what I could see in the livestream, at that distance (they were pretty close to the planet, it filled the entire screen) it took a probe about 20 seconds to reach the surface. Firing all 3 probes in quick succession, and then waiting 20 seconds for them to hit just because you can't fire more, seems like a huge waste of time, regardless if you're in the infinite or non-infinite camp.

 

[bitstorm]

Synthesis and material gathering is not interesting, i get that,
but what about sitting in SC and plastering an icy planet with drones at minimal user input?
Is that interesting, especially with the knowledge you can do it all day, due to infinite probes?

I think this is only gonna be known in beta.

It's really important the exploration mechanic has legs.

If it quickly becomes a chore (like many find material gathering to be) then that's a bit of a problem.

 

[Stigbob]

That is why my original proposal tied in Multicrew as an aspect of the
proposed idea, allowing the "gunner" role to pilot the limpet directly
creating a gameplay opportunity.

I was replying to your fuel rats style emergency probe resupply bit with that. With the fuel rats you don't just sit and wait, you log out of the game to conserve fuel then sit and wait its hard to think of something worse in a video game. For people to come to you thousands of LY's out you could also be in for quite a long wait.

Now with fuel people do it because otherwise they lose the data they've gathered, waiting for some mats isn't really the same deal so there's not the same loss of stuff incentive to do it.

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

... it is an easier concept to grasp than "High Density Omni-directional Topographic Coherent Plasmic Energy Charge".
...

HiDOdiToCoPEC Probes

Rolls off the tongue. Hi-de-hi campers!

 

[[VR] Merkir]

Can you point the exact time in the livestream where they say that? Because I have combed the video footage and can't find it.

From what I could see in the livestream, at that distance (they were pretty close to the planet, it filled the entire screen) it took a probe about 20 seconds to reach the surface. Firing all 3 probes in quick succession, and then waiting 20 seconds for them to hit just because you can't fire more, seems like a huge waste of time, regardless if you're in the infinite or non-infinite camp.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtmmmP_waf4&feature=youtu.be&t=4302

1:11:42 - they're talking about engineering increasing clip size and "can only fire up to three at once".

 

[Wolfe3]

probe holder

 

[Deareim]

ED is not simulation so who cares if probes are infinites ? The people complaining about are the same not complaining for other non realistic elements in the game. Paradoxal ?

Just a game. Just chill and enjoy.

 

[Stealthie]

Collecting materials for synthesis is just busy work. It isn't interesting or engaging. It's just waiting for RNG to go your way so you can get back to doing what you really want to do. It's busy work. Just a time sink for the sake of a time sink.

Infinite spam is better than shooting rocks for prizes. There's an incentive to be efficient. If you don't want to, then you can map it and move on. Or go investigate something that you're actually interested in doing.

This is an interesting point.

We seem to be saying that craftable probes is a bad thing because mat-gathering is "busy work" and should be avoided whereas launching multiple probes at a planet, 3 at a time, in order to complete a scan of the surface (where our DSS currently does that automatically as we approach a planet) is perfectly okay.

Is it possible we're not seeing the forest for the trees, here?

The more I think about this, the more I feel like the whole operation of scanning a planet's surface is the "busy work".

 

[Stigbob]

This is an interesting point.

We seem to be saying that craftable probes is a bad thing because mat-gathering is "busy work" and should be avoided whereas launching multiple probes at a planet, 3 at a time, in order to complete a scan of the surface (where our DSS currently does that automatically as we approach a planet) is perfectly okay.

Is it possible we're not seeing the forest for the trees, here?

The more I think about this, the more I feel like the whole operation of scanning a planet's surface is the "busy work".

Everything about it is optional so you only need to do it if you like doing it and the results you get from it. Unlike craftable probes only which would be compulsory gathering.