Brutal and very sad stuff. Unions Required.
https://www.gamesindustry.biz/artic...-jU52lHytf1S6TDZdVTd8NNK5QXeKXwoHTa_LBfaFcu7Y
The price of being a 'Rockstar'
- Thread starter Barking_Mad
- Start date
Yeah, that sounds familiar.
I have to point out that I was disappointed in DB on Lave Radio (link episode 100?) when he mentioned his workforce putting in long hours and then laughing about it.
Although, given that FD have just won an award on their office, I guess they're not so crunchy now
verminstar
Banned
Tis sad to think one the best games of the year isnt out on PC, but these little tantrums are still funny to read about. Hell hath no fury like a master race scorned ^
Well, Rockstar and Blizzard in particular are long-known for milking their employees completely dry.
It's sad, really, how the games business turned out. It's just business, now.
It's sad, really, how the games business turned out. It's just business, now.
I worked in games in the late 90s under similar conditions. Mostly you were doing crazy hours not because you were being ordered to, but because the milestones were basically impossible without it. It always felt like we were 6 months behind schedule.
The real problem for me was that the projects went on so long that morale was impossible to maintain and there was a bigger and bigger cloud of bitter animosity as you got closer to the end. And these days most projects don't really have an end!
I remember working somewhere where colleagues were openly talking about arranging a "hit" on management.
The real problem for me was that the projects went on so long that morale was impossible to maintain and there was a bigger and bigger cloud of bitter animosity as you got closer to the end. And these days most projects don't really have an end!
I remember working somewhere where colleagues were openly talking about arranging a "hit" on management.
![[VR] optimal_909](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/109/109067.jpg?1553781733){kind=avatar}
But... couldn't a R* game dev just simply switch to another high paying job with that kind of experience?
And there is this bit:
'And even among former employees willing to talk to us for an article like this, there was an understanding that many Rockstar employees absolutely do want to be there. One developer noted that beyond the possibility of lucrative bonuses, Rockstar doesn't engage in the sort of mass layoffs and office closures that seem common elsewhere in AAA (Rockstar Vienna was not mentioned), and can give employees significant time off between projects to recharge their batteries. Perhaps just as important, Rockstar developers tend to make games that meet with critical and commercial success.'
I guess it must be similar as working on an offshore oil rig. Brutal work with some perks such as loads of $$$...
And there is this bit:
'And even among former employees willing to talk to us for an article like this, there was an understanding that many Rockstar employees absolutely do want to be there. One developer noted that beyond the possibility of lucrative bonuses, Rockstar doesn't engage in the sort of mass layoffs and office closures that seem common elsewhere in AAA (Rockstar Vienna was not mentioned), and can give employees significant time off between projects to recharge their batteries. Perhaps just as important, Rockstar developers tend to make games that meet with critical and commercial success.'
I guess it must be similar as working on an offshore oil rig. Brutal work with some perks such as loads of $$$...
Many companies do though and it's certainly not exclusive to entertainment. The entire situation is made worse by the continued belief that extra curricular work and overtime is expected because 'everybody does it', 'I don't want to let my colleagues down' and 'it'll all fall apart if we don't' attitudes that most people seem to have been cultivated into.
One of the "neat" tricks pulled by Rockstar is that devs only get their name in the game credits if they're still working there at launch. So even if you're feeling burned out, well, it's not necessarily easy to leave knowing that it's not a line on your CV that will be acknowledged officially...
KONAMI aint much better...
It's also true that if you're relatively new to the industry or even to the company, you won't be sticking your hand up and saying "Im not doing this" because you're not in a position to do so.
I know someone in the industry on one of these games and they said "It was the worst time of my life". When they got the job it was 'the dream job'. Sure, they were proud of what they did and they loved the end product, but after finishing they turned down the offer to stay and went elsewhere. And then there's the boozing, sedentary lifestyle etc. It's really not very healthy. At all.
does it make a difference? this isn't about entertainment, it's about money. it's a sad story about greed, politics and incompetence that isn't at all exclusive of the game industry.
i have to say, though, 'it' is a quite privileged 'career' for nowadays standards, those are among the easiest jobs to get with reasonable pay, so if you accept such conditions it's mostly on you. maybe the particularity of game companies and startups is that they tend to have a very young workforce very easy to brainwash.
btw i'll leave this here:
Sometimes feels like there are too many cooks who can't seem to find the right ingredient. This can lead to sprints/working periods with inconsistent amounts of work.
No career development possibilities
No allowance for developing new skills during work periods
Too much-undeeded crunch
Management do not reward people going the extra mile
Promises unfufilled constantly
Dysfunctional organisation. People pay lip service to policies etc but in this organisation everything comes down to whether they think you fit in
Open plan offices, badly paid overtime/crunch (you're expected to participate), office space spread over remote buildings. Only very basic lunch facilities. Little flexibility with regards to working hours.
Had to work alot of unpaid hours.
-Managment made alot of bad decisions which led to project getting cancelled
-Computer equiptment was a little old, prone to crashing and losing work.
They used to crunch terribly but hopefully that has now stopped. The location is a Science Park, if you don't mind having nothing to do at lunch time you won't mind but otherwise it feels very isolated. Cambridge is very expensive and most people live outside the city in other towns and villages. They have too much creative control in the hands of too few people.
There is a lot of mismanagement the scheduling is non existent or has been cleverly calculated to mean overtime is unavoidable. The pay is quite low but I hear things have improved in that regard with some pay being offered for overtime. There are no real perks to speak of past free coffee, tea and cheap biscuits and a free fast food meal if you work long enough. Also while most people do work hard there are a bunch of dead weight that they tend to keep around because of politics and greasing up the chain of command. These are poison whisperers who tend to bring down people with actual skill.
https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Frontier-Developments-Reviews-E372218_P3.htm
Sometimes feels like there are too many cooks who can't seem to find the right ingredient. This can lead to sprints/working periods with inconsistent amounts of work.
No career development possibilities
No allowance for developing new skills during work periods
Too much-undeeded crunch
Management do not reward people going the extra mile
Promises unfufilled constantly
Dysfunctional organisation. People pay lip service to policies etc but in this organisation everything comes down to whether they think you fit in
Open plan offices, badly paid overtime/crunch (you're expected to participate), office space spread over remote buildings. Only very basic lunch facilities. Little flexibility with regards to working hours.
Had to work alot of unpaid hours.
-Managment made alot of bad decisions which led to project getting cancelled
-Computer equiptment was a little old, prone to crashing and losing work.
They used to crunch terribly but hopefully that has now stopped. The location is a Science Park, if you don't mind having nothing to do at lunch time you won't mind but otherwise it feels very isolated. Cambridge is very expensive and most people live outside the city in other towns and villages. They have too much creative control in the hands of too few people.
There is a lot of mismanagement the scheduling is non existent or has been cleverly calculated to mean overtime is unavoidable. The pay is quite low but I hear things have improved in that regard with some pay being offered for overtime. There are no real perks to speak of past free coffee, tea and cheap biscuits and a free fast food meal if you work long enough. Also while most people do work hard there are a bunch of dead weight that they tend to keep around because of politics and greasing up the chain of command. These are poison whisperers who tend to bring down people with actual skill.
https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Frontier-Developments-Reviews-E372218_P3.htm
I hate to break it to you, but theres a entire country over here working for ten bucks an hour with a lot of jobs that offer no benefits, no health insurance, and when your working 60-70 hours to live in a one bedroom motel room and you cant afford a car and the government says you make to much money to qualify for health insurance.
When this is my reality, when I contract some kind of major illness my only real option is a bullet to saved my loved ones endless medical expenses. When I have to crunch every week just so Im not homeless living in the woods, when a trip to the hospital for something like a chest infection or a bad tooth sets me back a thousand dollars which can be as much as 2 weeks pay.
Tell me again about how being a rockstar video game developer that requires crunch before the games released is so terrible again please?
You don't fix a broken system from the top. You dont fix it from the bottom. You fix it from the middle.
In America right now you have three classes of people, people who choose not to work and milk every piece of welfare and disability to coast and get a free ride along the bottom.
You have people in the middle who work and struggle everyday to make ends meet and stay afloat and pay a good percentage of their pay to keep the bottom floating while they themselves struggle for the neccesitys people on the bottom are freely given.
Then you have the top, well off people who don't have the base struggle everyone else in the other two classes has because of hard work or circumstance.
(There's obviously edge cases in every scenario, legit people who are deserving and welcome to these social safety nets which I am happy to pay taxes for. The amount of deserving qualifying people compared to everyone jumping on and taking the easy way out is so highly disproportionate its unbelievable)
I would think that a game oriented career at Rockstar would be middle-top or top. I'm sorry you have to work hard and crunch, I really am, but would you rather be crunching serving cheese burgers at mcdonalds while living in the god dam woods with no healthcare? Maybe count your blessings and stop whining.
There's big problems in modern society, being a video game developer at rockstar can get easier after people who work their asses off for nothing can actually survive, eat, have a roof, healthcare and hot water.
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Hmm, I'm not a Dev so save your ire
I don't disagree with most of what you say. People need to stop voting for governments that work against them. Many were suckered into voting Trump and Tory and before them a bunch of self-interested Liberals. The worm will turn, it's just a bit slow.
well, there is some middle ground. if you are half good you will get a reasonable job. probably not a 'rockstar' but maybe having that as a general objective of 20yr olds is precisely part of the problem. well, they will learn, after some years, no worry.
i've been there several times. except for very particular situations and for short times i never accepted crunch. i think it is just fair to be there when the 'company' (actually, the people you work with) needs you. if this however turns into routine then i've always flatly said no. not only that, i've called out management for incompetence, with good grounds, and told them to deal with their own failure. on some occasion i've even joked: "okay, i'll fix this mess, but this is your mess, thus i'll be doing your job, thus want six months salary of yours too". i was always ready to be fired, but never was.
Relevant?
yyesss? we are talking about abusive practices in the game industry, right? or is the holy cow taboo?
You're aware that Frontier recently won an award for being one of the best companies in the industry to work for? So I guess if your point is companies should and can improve, you'd be right. I'm sure Frontier aren't perfect by any means.