A different question about yaw... honest!
- Thread starter Dr Roly
- Start date
It all started way back when the ships were first being designed. The story goes that the workaholic inventor made all his staff work silly hours but didn't want tired staff since he had a great vision for the future of space travel but his staff were feeling tired so a poster was put up "Do not yawn, get some sleep".
This poster only partially survived a fire and was picked up by later designers who read "Do not yaw" to mean that yaw had to be limited
Doesn't work... we can pitch down at the same rate as pitching up. That's called a "red out" in fighter pilot speak, when you pull negative G's (compared to normal Earth gravity). The human body can't handle that as well as pulling positive G's when pitching up, although too many G's will cause "black out." If you were able to pull the same G's laterally with yaw, it might be somewhere in between, but you'd be falling sideways out of your pilot seat.
My handwavium explanation is the same as it is for the overall flight model. It works almost exactly like a jet fighter in atmosphere, right down to the max turn rate with medium throttle, and the speed caps. You have limited rudder authority in a jet fighter, because you're supposed to roll and pull vertical G's to turn (a more efficient use of the main wings).
So... we're on a fly-by-wire system that mimics aerodynamic combat. The reason is that the same ingrained skills will translate to the expansion when we can land on planets, and fight other ships in their atmosphere. No need for a transition between spaceflight and atmospheric flight regimes.
That's my theory and I'm sticking to it, because nothing else makes sense.
I think of the ships in ED a bit like the cars of the future. They're designed to get you from point A to B, and other general purpose activities. Since they use fixed manoeuvring thrusters, you'd need more of them installed to get full yaw, which is a bit of a waste, since you don't really 'need' full pitch/yaw in space if you already have roll.
That's how I justify it anyway, regardless of how much sense it actually makes. The strafing thrusters would all have to be half way along the ship.
That's how I justify it anyway, regardless of how much sense it actually makes. The strafing thrusters would all have to be half way along the ship.
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Scientist discovered the human brain cannot withstand sustained lateral G-forces over a long period of time. This was first discovered after the advent of frequent space flight in retired astronauts.
The first victims of what is commonly referred to as "Maracas Syndrome" where not discovered until the effects were irreversible, leading to their deaths, after years of painful brain swelling and hallucinations.
Unfortunately doctors are unable to accurately diagnose the disease prior to symptoms manifesting in the patient. Dr. Paul Bryant of the Federal League Of Practitioners, also known as FLOP, characterized the problem "All Maracas are different but, shake them long enough and they all break."
To date all attempts to thwart the issue have proven elusive. Still, that hasn't stopped many from trying to resolve the deadly problem of lateral G-forces. Many will remember Dr. Ima Dolt's commercial catastrophe in 2952 were he famously uttered the phrase "Well, they we're going to die anyway."
That's my story, and I'm sticking to it
The first victims of what is commonly referred to as "Maracas Syndrome" where not discovered until the effects were irreversible, leading to their deaths, after years of painful brain swelling and hallucinations.
Unfortunately doctors are unable to accurately diagnose the disease prior to symptoms manifesting in the patient. Dr. Paul Bryant of the Federal League Of Practitioners, also known as FLOP, characterized the problem "All Maracas are different but, shake them long enough and they all break."
To date all attempts to thwart the issue have proven elusive. Still, that hasn't stopped many from trying to resolve the deadly problem of lateral G-forces. Many will remember Dr. Ima Dolt's commercial catastrophe in 2952 were he famously uttered the phrase "Well, they we're going to die anyway."
That's my story, and I'm sticking to it
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Doesn't work... we can pitch down at the same rate as pitching up. That's called a "red out" in fighter pilot speak, when you pull negative G's (compared to normal Earth gravity). The human body can't handle that as well as pulling positive G's when pitching up, although too many G's will cause "black out." If you were able to pull the same G's laterally with yaw, it might be somewhere in between, but you'd be falling sideways out of your pilot seat.
My handwavium explanation is the same as it is for the overall flight model. It works almost exactly like a jet fighter in atmosphere, right down to the max turn rate with medium throttle, and the speed caps. You have limited rudder authority in a jet fighter, because you're supposed to roll and pull vertical G's to turn (a more efficient use of the main wings).
So... we're on a fly-by-wire system that mimics aerodynamic combat. The reason is that the same ingrained skills will translate to the expansion when we can land on planets, and fight other ships in their atmosphere. No need for a transition between spaceflight and atmospheric flight regimes.
That's my theory and I'm sticking to it, because nothing else makes sense.
Actually yaw does almost nothing to the distribution of our blood, and causes neither red nor blackouts (which are caused by the blood being yanked to either the top or the bottom of your body, which does not happen with lateral Gs), and a properly secure pilot will hardly feel any effects from it at all.
Other than say the shape of the ship, there really is no handwavium that makes any sense, (except the yawn poster guy), especially since a spaceship that cannot move very well on one of its major axis is a very poorly designed spaceship.
So in the 3000s humans must have just gotten hilariously bad at space travel.
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I have only flown a small plane once (as a sailor, i prefer wet stuff under me than air!) But the yaw was a lot slower than banking on the little plane I went up in, basically because the air flow over the area of the main wings was a lot greater than that of the tail rudder.
But you would need to speak to a REAL pilot to answer what it is like in the aircraft in general, I am assuming (just assuming!) that the main flight mechanics are set up to be more like this?
But you would need to speak to a REAL pilot to answer what it is like in the aircraft in general, I am assuming (just assuming!) that the main flight mechanics are set up to be more like this?
You see, when romans invented the roads, they made their width depend on the width of a carriage, and thus on the size of two horse a... posteriors. And those carriages made grooves in the ground, so everyone made their carriages the same width so they would all drive in those grooves. And that's why train tracks are exactly that far apart. And that's why the space shuttle's solid rocket boosters were as big as they were. And that's why spaceships in the year 3300 have limited yaw.
Or something like that.
Or maybe these "how it came to be" stories are mostly just bulldung anyway
Or something like that.
Or maybe these "how it came to be" stories are mostly just bulldung anyway
Personnaly I don't need a in game explanation for this, it just works so well I'm willing to hand wave it away. (This coming from someone who was initially disappointed about the limited yaw)
But I think the g-force explanation works the best for me, in order the limit the use of negative g the yaw is limited so you tend to roll and pull positive g. Of course you could just limit the negative g, but that wouldn't be as much fun!
Cheers
But I think the g-force explanation works the best for me, in order the limit the use of negative g the yaw is limited so you tend to roll and pull positive g. Of course you could just limit the negative g, but that wouldn't be as much fun!
Cheers
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Someone on the galactic council once said that Tourettes in space is a really bad thing and demanded all ships had design limitations put in place to avoid it being a problem (his main intention being a profanity filter on the intercom systems).
As it passed down to the ship designers, something got lost in translation and it got interpreted as "Turrets in space", so they put a galactic-wide legal imposition on all ship manufacturers to limit the yaw ability of all craft. And hence here we are.
As it passed down to the ship designers, something got lost in translation and it got interpreted as "Turrets in space", so they put a galactic-wide legal imposition on all ship manufacturers to limit the yaw ability of all craft. And hence here we are.
"In days of Yore, at the dawn of spaceflight, the primitive space vehicles of the day had to contend with the full Newtonian nature of Space - a puff of hydrazine in one direction had to be countered by a an equal puff in the opposite direction.
The skill, maths, and balance required for that ballet dance in space was immense.
Subsequently, and through the years, decades, and centuries as humans ventured further and further out in the galaxy, and all the human baggage was carried with them - wars, criminality, piracy, murder - it was decided at some point that all vehicles should be deliberately limited in speed and maneuvrability. The change was made in such a way that it could not be reversed - any attempts to re-wire or re-program the thruster control systems result in instant and total annihilation of ship and hacker alike - no escape pods, no second chance at life.
Any attempts at manufacturing a completely new and redesigned flight control system were also futile - they either didn't interface with the ship or again the vehicle blows up.
No one knows who made this decision, or even when the change happened - it just is. Perhaps at one point in history some alien intelligence - vast, cool, and unsympathetic - somehow altered the minds of humans. All that is known now is that certain craft have certain limits of spaceflight - all involve limiting Yaw for some reason, such that spaceflight is no longer Newtonian but simulates flying an aeroplane through an atmosphere.
Perhaps some day the mystery will be solved..."
The skill, maths, and balance required for that ballet dance in space was immense.
Subsequently, and through the years, decades, and centuries as humans ventured further and further out in the galaxy, and all the human baggage was carried with them - wars, criminality, piracy, murder - it was decided at some point that all vehicles should be deliberately limited in speed and maneuvrability. The change was made in such a way that it could not be reversed - any attempts to re-wire or re-program the thruster control systems result in instant and total annihilation of ship and hacker alike - no escape pods, no second chance at life.
Any attempts at manufacturing a completely new and redesigned flight control system were also futile - they either didn't interface with the ship or again the vehicle blows up.
No one knows who made this decision, or even when the change happened - it just is. Perhaps at one point in history some alien intelligence - vast, cool, and unsympathetic - somehow altered the minds of humans. All that is known now is that certain craft have certain limits of spaceflight - all involve limiting Yaw for some reason, such that spaceflight is no longer Newtonian but simulates flying an aeroplane through an atmosphere.
Perhaps some day the mystery will be solved..."
In the early days of motoring, you had a wheel in yours hands that directly moved the wheels on the vehicle, the brake pedal pulled a cable that operated the brakes and the gear lever was connected directly to the gearbox and required you to double clutch.
~ 100 years later you have electronic steering which steers itself, keeping you in your lane on the motorway, assisted brakes that will automatically stop the car if the car detects that a collision is imminent and automatic and electronic/cable operated gearboxes that do all the work for you and even in a manual you have synchromesh.
After ~1300 years of spaceflight I expect that limited yaw and pitch speeds (if you keep thrusting the pitch speed should increase until the ship breaks apart!) are there as safety measures to ensure that a low level of ability/intellect is required to fly one safely, much as the modern car is.
From the game perspective, it basically results in a more cinematic experience rather than just chasing your enemy round like a turret, you have to roll and pitch to keep him in your sights so that when you nail him you feel like Maverick
~ 100 years later you have electronic steering which steers itself, keeping you in your lane on the motorway, assisted brakes that will automatically stop the car if the car detects that a collision is imminent and automatic and electronic/cable operated gearboxes that do all the work for you and even in a manual you have synchromesh.
After ~1300 years of spaceflight I expect that limited yaw and pitch speeds (if you keep thrusting the pitch speed should increase until the ship breaks apart!) are there as safety measures to ensure that a low level of ability/intellect is required to fly one safely, much as the modern car is.
From the game perspective, it basically results in a more cinematic experience rather than just chasing your enemy round like a turret, you have to roll and pitch to keep him in your sights so that when you nail him you feel like Maverick
The Lavian Tree Grub was a common comodity many years ago in the 3100's and the beginning of the 3200's and was traded heavily. Not many people know what the reason was it was traded for.
... Here folows a short explanation:
Rightly treated and fermented Lavian Tree Grubs produce small amounts of an anti-nausiating substance called by Pharmaceutics: LTG-AN.
Humans can have many types of nausea but this substance was able to prevent one sort of nausea: flight sickness due to extensive horizontal rotational motion while moving forward simultaneously. Commonly known as Yaw.
There is no other known substance to prevent this kind of nausea seemingly it does something special to the inner ear perception of movement and the nerve synapses connected to that part of the brain.
All was well until just after 3210 the Lavian Tree Grub went extinct. As Lave was a Dictatorship at that moment. Communication with Lave at that time was difficult and the worlds surrounding Lave did not see it coming. The Mass Extinction event was only noticed when it was already too late. No living Lavian Tree Grubs are on record since that time. Later recorded history explained how the Lavian Tree Grub came to it's demise. This can be read elsewhere.
There are rumours however that some may have survived off of the world of Lave. If you come across them you can sell them for astronomical prizes if you find the right bidders.
Many pharmaceutical companies have tried to synthesize LTG-AN but up until today to no avail. It currently is seen as the Holy Grail in flight enhancing pharmaceuticals somewhat similar as Progenitor Cells are to Live Extension Science.
Due to the inability to prevent Yaw nausea ships have been fitted with less Yaw thrust to accomodate for saver and cleaner flights.
... Here folows a short explanation:
Rightly treated and fermented Lavian Tree Grubs produce small amounts of an anti-nausiating substance called by Pharmaceutics: LTG-AN.
Humans can have many types of nausea but this substance was able to prevent one sort of nausea: flight sickness due to extensive horizontal rotational motion while moving forward simultaneously. Commonly known as Yaw.
There is no other known substance to prevent this kind of nausea seemingly it does something special to the inner ear perception of movement and the nerve synapses connected to that part of the brain.
All was well until just after 3210 the Lavian Tree Grub went extinct. As Lave was a Dictatorship at that moment. Communication with Lave at that time was difficult and the worlds surrounding Lave did not see it coming. The Mass Extinction event was only noticed when it was already too late. No living Lavian Tree Grubs are on record since that time. Later recorded history explained how the Lavian Tree Grub came to it's demise. This can be read elsewhere.
(Read Alen Stroud's Lave Revolution for the nasty fate of the Lavian Tree Grub)
There are rumours however that some may have survived off of the world of Lave. If you come across them you can sell them for astronomical prizes if you find the right bidders.
Many pharmaceutical companies have tried to synthesize LTG-AN but up until today to no avail. It currently is seen as the Holy Grail in flight enhancing pharmaceuticals somewhat similar as Progenitor Cells are to Live Extension Science.
Due to the inability to prevent Yaw nausea ships have been fitted with less Yaw thrust to accomodate for saver and cleaner flights.
There have always been critics of the way the game works. Check this out if you don't believe me - released shortly after the original game...
Coincidence?
I think not!
Not embarrassing at all...
Coincidence?
I think not!
Not embarrassing at all...
At it's heart every Frame Shift Drive has a number of counter rotating exotic matter particles. These particles allow the FAD to warp space for Super Cruise travel and to actively tear space for hyperspace jumps.
However, the presence of these exotic matter particles has several detrimental effects on ship handling.
The first, and most obvious, of those is the interaction of the particles with the local gravity field. This interaction generates heat. The faster the FSD moves with respect to the local field the greater the heat generation. This means that fir any given region of space, all ships equipped with a FSD, must travel at a similar velocity to each other and thus appear stationary to each other. The practical limits with current FSD designs mean the maximum deviation from the 'stationary' speed is about 500m/s (the record currently held by the Viper Mk3). This is the infamous "Speed Cap" that prevents ships from accelerating constantly.
The second handling quirk the FSD causes is related to the rotation of the ship. The exotic particles must be very precisely positioned with respect to each other and this makes them extremely sensitive to excessively high rotational speeds. Curiously, it is possible to optimise the rotational stability of any two axes at the expense of the third (this process was discovered by Dr Wolfgang von Nerf). This has led to drives with good rotational stability, and hence high rotation rates, around two axes, with the third axis "nerfed" to prevent damage to the FSD.
It is convention that the "nerfed" axis is the yaw axis, however from time to time experimental ships with alternative flight models are produced (the famously expensive models produced by the RSI shipyards all have unorthodox handling and inspire heated debate amongst pilots)
However, the presence of these exotic matter particles has several detrimental effects on ship handling.
The first, and most obvious, of those is the interaction of the particles with the local gravity field. This interaction generates heat. The faster the FSD moves with respect to the local field the greater the heat generation. This means that fir any given region of space, all ships equipped with a FSD, must travel at a similar velocity to each other and thus appear stationary to each other. The practical limits with current FSD designs mean the maximum deviation from the 'stationary' speed is about 500m/s (the record currently held by the Viper Mk3). This is the infamous "Speed Cap" that prevents ships from accelerating constantly.
The second handling quirk the FSD causes is related to the rotation of the ship. The exotic particles must be very precisely positioned with respect to each other and this makes them extremely sensitive to excessively high rotational speeds. Curiously, it is possible to optimise the rotational stability of any two axes at the expense of the third (this process was discovered by Dr Wolfgang von Nerf). This has led to drives with good rotational stability, and hence high rotation rates, around two axes, with the third axis "nerfed" to prevent damage to the FSD.
It is convention that the "nerfed" axis is the yaw axis, however from time to time experimental ships with alternative flight models are produced (the famously expensive models produced by the RSI shipyards all have unorthodox handling and inspire heated debate amongst pilots)