The Star Citizen Thread v9

[Tippis]

I believe you would be pretty disappointed on team members background for most AAA titles out there.
I mean, like zero physics, zero mathematics besides basic vector algebra, etc., etc. Still it doesn’t mean anything as long as the game “feel” is proper and “believable”.

…and SC has neither of those, nor can it ever have until CIG actually attract the competence needed to deliver it, which is another thing they're not capable of. But that's exactly the problem: I'm not talking about the myriad of content creating roles that are usually on a larger team (of which CIG has an abundance) — I'm talking about the software engineers (of which CIG has precious few). The ones whose job it would be to create the engine that sits at the bottom of it all. If you want to push the limits of a system, you will need those, and believe me, if they have no mathematics beyond basic algebra, they are simply not on that team so no barrier busting will ever occur.

And even they cannot actually go beyond the limits we're talking about here — so no, there are limits to what you can do, and no amount of “yay team” or dedication can help that.

No one actually cares. Assasin’s Creed Black Flag isn’t simulated water particles flow around the hull at atom level to deliver, for me, one of the best naval battle experience. Still they used pretty complicated model to make it feel right.

Plenty of people care, especially when the entire rhetoric surrounding the game keep revolving around “fidelity” and “realism” and “immersion” (never mind that the three are actually at odds with each other… but that's just another thing CIG isn't competent enough to figure out). But they key point here is: look at how quickly you trotted it out as an argument and something to care about — that's really the whole problem. They keep trying to make the customer believe they're doing all these fancy things when, in fact, they're not.

 

[Tuub t Tute]

<snip>This is the equivalent of FD releasing an alien cod liver oil refinery submarine in 3.3: <snip>

Moray Starboat confirmed!

 

[Goose4291]

Underground missions using carefully handcrafted prebuilt assets that will then, Genuine Roberts assures us, will all be varied and procedurally generated.

That's actually not that hard to do really.

Create some 'underground cavern' building components. (So for a lazy example, a tunnel entrance could be one component, a straight 50m tunnel another and two left/right bend models).
Have the FSMs (or whatever the CryEngine equivalent is) know how the AI should handle each component.
Have the proc-gen system know how to knit the components together when generating them.

The AI will then to the player appear to interact with the tunnel network in a believable manner.

 

[Fishy]

My #1 gripes with this kind of stuff is that there is no need for a troop transport. They are barely able to get two NPCs to shoot at each other semi-reliably. There are not going to be large battles or wars needing troop transport. There is no design for it, there is no technical foundation for it, its just completely unreasonable. What you have is a few dudes shooting at a few other dudes, and literally ship where a few dudes can stand in is a 'troop transport' for all intents and purposes. This is the equivalent of FD releasing an alien cod liver oil refinery submarine in 3.3: sure, if there were waterworlds I could land in, with alien fauna, and oil I could extract and refine that would serve some kind of purpose in the game: great. But none of it exists in any way whatsoever so it is just nonsense.

Yeah. I feel the same in ED about my beloved FDS. Lovely name and design, and useful for other stuff, but the whole rp point of the ship is sorely missing. SC looks like it'll have more focus on the ground though, so who knows. But that's what I mean in my earlier post: if this is to be useful or entertaining, they need to work heavily on NPC ground conflict because carrying over 3 players for a mission is likely to get old quick, not to mention that other players are likely to fly their own ships anyhow. All of a sudden, it's a niche, rp and clan-only activity... But that's where their marketing hurts: promising everything to everyone means broken promises. If they break the other promises but come up with meaningful ground combat, well, yay me I guess.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

not to mention that other players are likely to fly their own ships anyhow.

Yeah, i'm sure there are those that would be fine with sitting on another ship, but i'd be wanting to fly my own. If like ED, can always dismiss it when landed so nobody can shoot it while its on the ground.

Of course, with SC's "fidelity" and requirements for "truck stops" and certain ships not being good travellers, then i can perhaps see a point, but conversely, if travel takes a while, its even worse just sitting on the ship waiting to get to your destination. Then by the time you are there, it might even be time to log off.

Then what? You are now in the middle of nowhere, and when you log back in, no ship of your own nearby and the person who brought you might be a long way away.

Maybe there will be some sort of call for a player to pick you up, but this is an online game. You send out a call to be picked up, and good chances are someone will come over and shoot you for the lulz. Coversely, with that sort of mechanic, you might have people calling in ships for a taxi only to shoot them down with a RPG or something, or have friends waiting nearby to whack them. I can imagine pretty soon that people will be very wary of sending out a call for a taxi from players.

And then, you still have to travel back, as a passenger, on a ship where the owner might simply choose to take you somewhere else. Or maybe they will need to log off (mum is calling them for dinner for example), then what? Or maybe the person being taxi'd gets bored and shoots the pilot in the back of the head.

But you finally get back to where your spaceship is (or any shipyard?) and call for your ship, maybe having to wait... and then its time to quick playing again perhaps.

Yeah, i think better to always take your own ship. Can't rely on players. Can't trust players.

 

[Zetta]

Devout defenders defend the indefensible https://old.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/9tbzf3/iaccidentally_got_this_game/

 

[Snarfbuckle]

Devout defenders defend the indefensible https://old.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/9tbzf3/iaccidentally_got_this_game/

The exact same post was added to /r/starcitizen with the names switched so it looks like a troll post.

Hmm, seems to be deleted but I read it this morning and someone called them out on it.

 

[Zetta]

The exact same post was added to /r/starcitizen with the names switched so it looks like a troll post.

Hmm, seems to be deleted but I read it this morning and someone called them out on it.

That's interesting, do you know if it was submitted by the same poster or perhaps someone trying to get "revenge"?

 

[Snarfbuckle]

That's interesting, do you know if it was submitted by the same poster or perhaps someone trying to get "revenge"?

Nope, since i cannot find the one on r/starcitizen i cannot find the one submitting it.

Is there anyway to find deleted subjects that others have responded to?

 

[TenakaFurey]

It really depends on a team. There is actually no limits on what you can do if your team is creative enough and you go and try things.

You're suggesting changing the engine to the degree it's no longer the same engine. Which is still going to take time, effort and money.....a lot more than doing it "properly"....but even CIG were interested in doing that, and the current state of the game suggests otherwise, it's still going to take years.

And it doesn't excuse that CIG are still trying to develop a game based on soundbites and promises rather than hard design, and to date are still designing the game, the engine and the gameplay loops and mechanics as they go.

We call thus "making it up as they go along" and it cannot give players the game CIG promised. Proper netcoding and "server meshing" needed to support the vision would require CIG sit down and engage in a proper design phase so they knew what to design around. The network and server requirements for 1000 players are going to be very different than those for 50 players or even 250 because the traffic, bandwidth, cpu, memory, etc requirements are different and that ties into aspects such as performance, the design of any custom packets for network traffic, graphical capabilities and more.

Unless CIGs devs are lying to us, we know much of the needed work still needs to be designed...coded...implemented. Seven years into development, the engine team should be refining their engine....and not worrying about adding and designing what is core functionality.

Looked like a magic to me.

I'm sure it did but CIG still need to plan and design their own systems for their own needs. And there is no guarantee CIGs systems are compatible. It supposedly took them a year to upgrade CE to 64 bit, their planetary/system procgen system doesn't appear to be working, their engine is still "glitchy" and unfinished after 7 years of work, their netcode is still incomplete, much server coded still needs to be designed never mind coded and simple OCS took them several years to add....and we're still waiting for it to be working well enough to make it to Live.

 

[Dementropy]

i cannot find the one on r/starcitizen i cannot find the one submitting it.

Is there anyway to find deleted subjects that others have responded to?

It was a different person

 

[Snarfbuckle]

It was a different person

Ah, yea, found the link to it deeper into the ELITE thread.

 

[SuBSynk]

Maybe there will be some sort of call for a player to pick you up, but this is an online game. You send out a call to be picked up, and good chances are someone will come over and shoot you for the lulz.

Or maybe they will need to log off (mum is calling them for dinner for example), then what?

You can already create player missions to request transport among other mission types & you choose the reward amount.

If you are armed you can of course shoot back if they only arrive to attack you.

The rating system will alert you of a "dodgy" player either way.

If the player logs off their ship persists (no p2p) so you could just take the pilot seat and fly the ship yourself.

 

[Cotic]

If the player logs off their ship persists (no p2p) so you could just take the pilot seat and fly the ship yourself.

So in that scenario what happens if I took over piloting once the owner logged out and destroyed the ship? Would the owner be faced with insurance fees/expediation fees when they log back into the game?

 

[Snarfbuckle]

So in that scenario what happens if I took over piloting once the owner logged out and destroyed the ship? Would the owner be faced with insurance fees/expediation fees when they log back into the game?

yup.

 

[Tuub t Tute]

yup.

So if you land your ship back at PO, does it have to be empty before it can get "parked in the bag of holding?"...

Or does this mean that Goon squatters could cause people to never log out or go AFK on fear of their ship getting banjaxed?

 

[SuBSynk]

So if you land your ship back at PO, does it have to be empty before it can get "parked in the bag of holding?"...

Or does this mean that Goon squatters could cause people to never log out or go AFK on fear of their ship getting banjaxed?

It stores the ship if you park at a station etc.

Cargo is stored with it.

 

[Tuub t Tute]

Yup, but does it have to be empty of other players? Is it something you select from your mobiglass when in the pilot's chair on landing, or is it if the ship is on a pad and unattended for a period of time?

I recall there were proposals for gameplay loops of locked ships / hacking entry / plasma cutting entry / piracy, etc?

If it is currently "If I stow away on your ship, I can steal it as soon as you vacate"... I know, it is (pre-) alpha and all, so it might change in the future?

 

[Komemiute]

Yup, but does it have to be empty of other players? Is it something you select from your mobiglass when in the pilot's chair on landing, or is it if the ship is on a pad and unattended for a period of time?

I recall there were proposals for gameplay loops of locked ships / hacking entry / plasma cutting entry / piracy, etc?

If it is currently "If I stow away on your ship, I can steal it as soon as you vacate"... I know, it is (pre-) alpha and all, so it might change in the future?

CIG will burn that bridge when they'll reach it...

 

[Cobra1984]

3.3.5 and 3.4 both have to be done before the end of 2018

There is ZERO chance of this happening. OCS has broken everything.