General / Off-Topic The seminal catastrophy. WWI a 100 years from now.

[Remus]

Today, 11 November will be celebrated the centenary of the end of the greatest manslaughter in human history.

A catastrophe of such amplitude that it destroyed empires, and brought Europe to its knees.

From there on, the world began a new era, an era where Europe was no longer the center of the world.

Seminal catastrophe, because the shock wave of that event was felt during the whole duration of the 20th century, and even today.

Without it, we would have no WW2, no Hitler or Stalin, no cold war, and probably no 9/11.

The end of a nightmare that began on the 28th of July 1914, the day that Europe decided to suicide.

The world had entered the industrial revolution, and brought with it more effective ways of butchering each other.

Clashing armies had been completely replaced by the use of cold and effective machinery. A charging horse by tanks.

Soldiers at the time called it the "last of the last". For the carnage was such, that it should have dissuaded anyone to start a new one.

The ripples of the conflict where felt world wide, from the fields of France to the plains of the USA, to the lands of Asia and trough the depts of the sea. NO one was spared.

And yet, this event could have never happened. It was so close to never happened. But history took a wrong turn, and the wrong man stood at the wrong place.

Now, more than ever we must remind ourselves of the reasons of why suddenly the world decided to put itself ablaze. Now that once again the world seem to let itself go to demagogy, populism and xenophobia.


Lets never forget.

Spoiler

Spoiler

[video=youtube_share;S-wSL4WqUws]https://youtu.be/S-wSL4WqUws[/video]

Spoiler

[video=youtube_share;kyCmh9G1fpo]https://youtu.be/kyCmh9G1fpo[/video]

Spoiler

[video=youtube_share;zroZqvr4whk]https://youtu.be/zroZqvr4whk[/video]

Spoiler

[video=youtube_share;WukYrrTH3ms]https://youtu.be/WukYrrTH3ms[/video]

 

[Patrick_68000]

Without it, we would have no WW2, no Hitler or Stalin, no cold war, and probably no 9/11.

We would have had something else.

From time immemorial the man wages war.

The human nature is violent and cruel since its creation.

WW1 is not the trigger.

 

[Robin of Spiritwood]

Sadly, it's the people who can't learn from history that always threaten our future.

There are no shortages of lessons.
Friedrich Haber was famous industrialist who introduced Einstein to German scientific society, and invented the synthesis of ammonia, a technology that has helped feed millions. He was a nationalist. Gave the world it's first massive scale chemical weapons in WW I.

Helped to develop Zyclon B when the second war came, a gas used on members of his own family by the Reich.

 

[Patrick_68000]

Helped to develop Zyclon B when the second war came, a gas used on members of his own family by the Reich.

Irony of history.

 

[Winterwalker]

Irony of history.

Isn't it just.

11:11 always leaves me in bits I'll be honest.

 

[Patrick_68000]

Isn't it just.

11:11 always leaves me in bits I'll be honest.

WW2 was also a huge horror. Unfortunately.

 

[Rade Konn]

Every war is a huge horror and war never changes.

 

[Patrick_68000]

and war never changes.

The human can change, perhaps one day.

 

[JonesTheFilm]

There's an extra level of tragedy to this day that is seldom mentioned. In between the armistice being signed at 5:10am on the 11th of November 1918 and the actual ceasefire six hours later, more than 2,700 people were killed. Those people died just for the 11-11-11 symbolism.

 

[Caramel Clown]

Wars are horrific. However, history is forged in wars. That's just what we do. Not to mention that wars often go hand in hand with large leaps in technology, science, and medicine.

 

[znôrt]

The human nature is violent and cruel since its creation.

WW1 is not the trigger.

you're mixing levels of abstraction here, patrick

yes, we are competitive animals which don't know much how to deal in the modern age with our prehistoric hardwired instincts. but yet violence is in decline, so in many aspects we're learning to do so. the key point here, something that took me decades to admit, is that the history of our species is indeed shaped by the actions of just a few individuals, from the great inventions to the great catastrophes. we're not inevitably doomed, we just have to deal with it. ww1 was just another episode in that process and indeed determined much of modern history and politics (but wasn't humanity's greatest manslaughter, not by a long margin). i agree it doesn't look nice at all and the current situation is kind of a dejà vu, but lets not despair.

and if everything goes terribly wrong ... well, then would be indeed time to become nihilistic and realize that actually we would be just another species going extinct. we do that to thousands of species every year.

 

[Winterwalker]

... large leaps in technology, science, and medicine.

And look where that's getting us! Mmm .. MICROPLASTIC MUSSELS .. anyone?

I suppose it's why God allows the Devil to exist (believing in long books or not). But the Devil is still a .

And a good riddance, lest we forget. [up] o7

 

[Patrick_68000]

There's an extra level of tragedy to this day that is seldom mentioned. In between the armistice being signed at 5:10am on the 11th of November 1918 and the actual ceasefire six hours later, more than 2,700 people were killed. Those people died just for the 11-11-11 symbolism.

And according Wikipedia, on the last day of the war, nearly 11000 people were killed, wounded or missing.

Some were killed a few seconds before the signing of the armistice.

As the American Henry Gunther is generally considered the last soldier killed in the First World War, 60 seconds before the armistice hour, while he attacked the German troops, surprised because they knew the imminent ceasefire.

 

[amigacooke]

There's an extra level of tragedy to this day that is seldom mentioned. In between the armistice being signed at 5:10am on the 11th of November 1918 and the actual ceasefire six hours later, more than 2,700 people were killed. Those people died just for the 11-11-11 symbolism.

In these days of instant communications it would seem so. I'd suggest that in 1918, communications were just not that good. Before even radio and television were available, it would take at least a few hours on both sides for the news to get through that the war was to end. Given that, 11am was probably practical as well as symbolic.

https://history.blog.gov.uk/2018/11/09/the-war-that-did-not-end-at-11am-on-11-november/

 

[Patrick_68000]

you're mixing levels of abstraction here, patrick

yes, we are competitive animals which don't know much how to deal in the modern age with our prehistoric hardwired instincts. but yet violence is in decline, so in many aspects we're learning to do so. the key point here, something that took me decades to admit, is that the history of our species is indeed shaped by the actions of just a few individuals, from the great inventions to the great catastrophes. we're not inevitably doomed, we just have to deal with it. ww1 was just another episode in that process and indeed determined much of modern history and politics (but wasn't humanity's greatest manslaughter, not by a long margin). i agree it doesn't look nice at all and the current situation is kind of a dejà vu, but lets not despair.

and if everything goes terribly wrong ... well, then would be indeed time to become nihilistic and realize that actually we would be just another species going extinct. we do that to thousands of species every year.

I do not dispute the fact that WW1 in brought a particular orientation for the hundred years which have followed.

However, it seems to me that WW2 has been more decisive.

 

[Jacques d'Orleans]

Sadly, it's the people who can't learn from history that always threaten our future.

There are no shortages of lessons.
Friedrich Haber was famous industrialist who introduced Einstein to German scientific society, and invented the synthesis of ammonia, a technology that has helped feed millions. He was a nationalist. Gave the world it's first massive scale chemical weapons in WW I.

Helped to develop Zyclon B when the second war came, a gas used on members of his own family by the Reich.

Irony of history.

Zyklon B was developed in 1922 as a pesticide and nobody by then had thought about it as a weapon of mass murder like it was used roughly twenty years later and I might add it is used in this role as pesticide until today (albeit under a different brand name). You could at least try to get your facts straight.
Yes, F. Haber (who died in 1934, btw) was one of the inventors of Chlorine, and the French Victor Grignard invented Phosgene or Winford Lee Lewis reinvented Lewisite, but they are rarely mentioned nowadays.
Maybe it's easier to forget that little fact that Flanders Fields (and not only them) were poisoned by pretty much everyone in WW1.

 

[Jacques d'Orleans]

However, it seems to me that WW2 has been more decisive.

The French Marshal Foch said about the Treaty of Versailles it isn't a peace treaty it is a seize fire for 20 years and history proved him right. Maybe history would have been different when they would have followed Woodrow Wilsons approach instead of the French.

 

[amigacooke]

The French Marshal Foch said about the Treaty of Versailles it isn't a peace treaty it is a seize fire for 20 years and history proved him right. Maybe history would have been different when they would have followed Woodrow Wilsons approach instead of the French.

Undoubtably it would have been different, but in what way, who knows?

 

[Talarin]

Fwiw, I caught Peter Jackson's "They shall not grow old" on the BBC Iplayer last night. It's fair to say that it's left me with quite an impression and is well worth a watch. Haunting.

 

[Stigbob]

A monk who saw a demonstration of the crossbow in the middle ages said it was a weapon of such awesome power it would end all war.

Turns out he was wrong, we'll do it all again.