yeah, just to clarify, i do find the reply a bit stingy and the criticism misdirected if it is aimed at IndigoWyrd. in general it makes sense, though, and i just read through that.
I Came, I Flew, I Did Not Like...
- Thread starter IndigoWyrd
- Start date
yeah, just to clarify, i do find the reply a bit stingy and the criticism misdirected if it is aimed at IndigoWyrd. in general it makes sense, though, and i just read through that.
Sure. And I suspect that I might be in disagreement with Wyrd. To me, it seems like the Phantom will be another exploration ship for me, only because I like to have choices. The Mamba probably have to wait though. Not sure what role that could fill.
The problem is, it should be possible to position new ships so that they can compete with alternatives rather than being overwhelmingly better or worse.
Let's face it, even if they cut & pasted the FdL's stat's directly onto the Mamba, the FdL would still have an advantage, simply as a result of the Mamba being much bigger and, thus, being a bigger target.
They've given the Mamba higher speed, which could arguably balance against it being a bigger target, but then they've also given it wacko heat-issues, weaker shields and less agility too.
The end result is a ship that fails to compete with the FdL in any meaningful way - even if it is a pretty nice ship to fly (short distances) in it's own right.
Maybe we just have to accept that there's somebody at FDev who's a rabid fan of certain ships and absolutely refuses to allow them to be usurped in any way?
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Both of the new ships are amazing thanks Frontier 
however it seems the Mamba needs some balancing
( Less Heat, increase to vertical thrusters, and a increase on top end speed ) thanks Frontier for releasing Mamba in a under spec state better to bring up notch than down a notch Lol
have a great holidays Frontier Developments .
however it seems the Mamba needs some balancing( Less Heat, increase to vertical thrusters, and a increase on top end speed ) thanks Frontier for releasing Mamba in a under spec state better to bring up notch than down a notch Lol
have a great holidays Frontier Developments .And here I thought that was exactly the issue at hand for most people: "it doesn't fly like an FdL! It can't compete!".
Yeah, no. The Mamba flies very, very differently. In fact, after giving a try, I think they could not be any more different. The Mamba is faster and less drifty, but it has a very sad regular pitch rate, like Python sad, and it's even bigger than a Python, making it quite poor at prolonged close range turn fighting. It really flies like a jouster. An oversized iCourier if you ask me.
Is that an actual effective strategy in a PVP fight? I honestly have no idea. But that doesn't prevent the ship from being way more unique than it looks at first sight, and pretty darn fun also.
Definitely some heat issues - and certainly different ships for different people. I just don’t happen to be all that impressed at this point. We’ll see what comes of these as beta progresses and when 3.3 goes live. My feelings may change. I didn’t like the Vulture at first either, but I came to appreciate it in time.
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Wow, you all were busy while I was typing. Thanks though, for the ad hominem bulwark, but I am a forum veteran, and have long since come to understand the math... If YourOpinion <> MyOpinion Than YourOpinion == Wrong Because YouWerentRaisedRight + HowDareYou. I can shrug those off.
I know some folks are going to love these out of the box- that’s fine, and I’m more than willing to give them time too. I just know that after melting a Mamba on a shakedown flight that it either has some inherent flaws, or is going to prove to be, much like the Vulture, a ship that simply requires a deep understanding of how to make viable for my style. Right now, I love the look, but that’s it.
The Phantom, like the Asp Scout, I just don’t see a niche for it, except as a limpet controller carrier. I’m not a fan of the look of either the Phantom or the Mk 2 - they look like the cockpit was mounted upside down to me. I have other ships that can pester megaships and structures, and any range explorers galore.
But if you like the look, the handling, and don’t have something that can fill a role this can, then I’m not going to tell you not to do it.
I also don’t set myself up by forming expectations of new content - this way I can’t be disappointed when those aren’t met.
And for the record I’ve never bid a resquiet in pace to ANY ship. Quite the opposite - ships are tools, different for different jobs and different people.
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Wow, you all were busy while I was typing. Thanks though, for the ad hominem bulwark, but I am a forum veteran, and have long since come to understand the math... If YourOpinion <> MyOpinion Than YourOpinion == Wrong Because YouWerentRaisedRight + HowDareYou. I can shrug those off.
I know some folks are going to love these out of the box- that’s fine, and I’m more than willing to give them time too. I just know that after melting a Mamba on a shakedown flight that it either has some inherent flaws, or is going to prove to be, much like the Vulture, a ship that simply requires a deep understanding of how to make viable for my style. Right now, I love the look, but that’s it.
The Phantom, like the Asp Scout, I just don’t see a niche for it, except as a limpet controller carrier. I’m not a fan of the look of either the Phantom or the Mk 2 - they look like the cockpit was mounted upside down to me. I have other ships that can pester megaships and structures, and any range explorers galore.
But if you like the look, the handling, and don’t have something that can fill a role this can, then I’m not going to tell you not to do it.
I also don’t set myself up by forming expectations of new content - this way I can’t be disappointed when those aren’t met.
And for the record I’ve never bid a resquiet in pace to ANY ship. Quite the opposite - ships are tools, different for different jobs and different people.
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To me, it's really about finding the right spot for a ship. The Mamba might not be great for combat or anything at the moment, but who knows, maybe there's a place for it as well.
FDev need to add some racing missions or such, beyond having community buckyball events. Maybe some FDL v Mamba throwdown.
I'm looking forward to buying both ships. Can someone tell me how the mamba shields stack up? Also does it have armor hardness of 70 like the FDL?
Yeah I guess most people are and will be disappointed to find out that the Mamba was apparently not designed to compete with the FdL in a PVP fight - or else it means FDev screwed up big time. I know that, I've been there myself.
But don't let the seemingly copy-and-paste internals fool you like it did to me. They fly and fight very differently. And now I'm actually glad to think it's really not an FdL clone or variant, but a very unique and fun ship in its own right, even if bound to remain far from the Meta, because of its obvious flaws.
Krait Phantom is the first solid exploration ships in YEARS. This is kind of a big deal.
Mamba is as fast as a Clipper, which is nice. It also looks amazing. Hopefully they'll tweak it a bit so that it has a better pitch speed and doesn't cook like a deep fryer every time it boosts. I personally hope they do a good job here as it's much nicer for me than the FdL. I can't stand the FdL cockpit!
Mamba is as fast as a Clipper, which is nice. It also looks amazing. Hopefully they'll tweak it a bit so that it has a better pitch speed and doesn't cook like a deep fryer every time it boosts. I personally hope they do a good job here as it's much nicer for me than the FdL. I can't stand the FdL cockpit!
I'm with you Kaybe. Phantom looks promising for exploration or long range light multi role. I hate the fdl cockpit so much it put me firmly in the federal camp. As much has the module damage problems are with hull tanks, at least the cockpits are nice. I will be getting a mamba and putting it through its paces soon.
Well, yeah.
You're talking to somebody who voluntarily flies a Keelback a lot of the time so I'm all about personal choice.
If we look at the Mamba in it's current state, you have to ask what it's actually for, though.
If I'm flying my Keelback instead of, say, a Python then I can still do the things I want to do. I'll just be doing them slower than I would if I was in my Python.
Flying the Keelback doesn't actually cause me to fail at what I'm doing.
The Mamba is apparently a combat ship and combat is a pretty binary thing.
If you win, somebody else loses and vice-versa.
That being the case, you're probably going to want to give yourself every opportunity to avoid losing - which would currently mean not flying a Mamba.
Seems like the only thing the Mamba's currently actually for is, possibly, combat for people who think the FdL is "easy mode".
And that's kind of a niche market, IMO, especially when there are already plenty of ships you can do that in which don't come with intrinsic flaws which constantly work against you.
I suppose that I should have been more articulate. What I meant was "a ship similar in fire power to the FdL." When engaging in combat in medium ships, I find that I am far more effective with more C3 weapons than I am with a single C4 and a smattering of C2. It wasn't a put down, just a personal comment that it isn't a ship that interests me. I haven't even flown it yet...and probably won't.
Well, yeah.
You're talking to somebody who voluntarily flies a Keelback a lot of the time so I'm all about personal choice.
If we look at the Mamba in it's current state, you have to ask what it's actually for, though.
If I'm flying my Keelback instead of, say, a Python then I can still do the things I want to do. I'll just be doing them slower than I would if I was in my Python.
Flying the Keelback doesn't actually cause me to fail at what I'm doing.
The Mamba is apparently a combat ship and combat is a pretty binary thing.
If you win, somebody else loses and vice-versa.
That being the case, you're probably going to want to give yourself every opportunity to avoid losing - which would currently mean not flying a Mamba.
Seems like the only thing the Mamba's currently actually for is, possibly, combat for people who think the FdL is "easy mode".
And that's kind of a niche market, IMO, especially when there are already plenty of ships you can do that in which don't come with intrinsic flaws which constantly work against you.
I must say, you got a point. Being a combat only ship, it's really not the best at it. But that's a fundamental design flaw, I'm afraid. The ship was designed to boom and zoom, not to turn fight its way to glory. And that's exaclty what it does, and it does it well. I'm not an expert but I think high speed and very low drift means you can dictate the distance of engagement in a jousting matchup, just like an iCourier does. Although, if PVPers are to be believed - and I guess they are - jousting is not really the Meta, like, not at all.
And that is exactly what puts the Mamba in a very unique (and fun) spot. So yeah, maybe it might deserve a small buff in speed/agility/durability to make it a bit more effective at what it does.
But I still don't think it would be smart to remove all that makes it so unique (and flawed, maybe) just to make it PVP viable because people are fed up of the FdL dominance.
It may not be at a general disadvantage when fighting an FDL, but there are combat scenarios where, even at this early stage (when I have about eight hours in the Mamba vs. nearly 2k hours in the FDL), I'd rather have a Mamba.
The Mamba is mostly a combat ship, but combat isn't all that binary. There are a multitude of different styles and approaches to each of a multitude of opponents.
Jousting is rarely optimal, even against NPC opponents. It's generally a side effect, not a goal.
I think it's more likely that FD are either very poor at balance, or simply don't care about balance and would rather if 90% of the game is basically skipped over in favour of strictly better solutions. Personally, I suspect the former as balance issues pervade almost every single aspect and metric within the game.
Such as?
*EDIT*
I'd rather fly a Mamba to an FdL 100% of the time... but I'd probably not do as well as a result of that choice.
What people would "rather" do is a subjective thing. Whether those choices have merit is not.
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Bob Lighthouse
Banned
You have two accounts?