PvP Is nonconsensual PvP really that much of a problem?

[Havvk]

That might be your personal opinion but I know over 100 players just on Xbox that would disagree with you.
Pretty much all pvpers that don't grief are glad there are players like me to give them someone to fight.
Only people who have never taken part in pvp and are completely uninformed on the inner workings of it would have an opinion like this.

Tell me HONESTLY how many times have you actually been ganked in open. Also what system were you in and what were you doing when it happened and how many hours have you played in open and in the bubble?

I don't count kiddy land...I mean consoles.

Also I fly an engineered Corvette everywhere I go in Open, so apparently that's helping me from getting ganked. Before that, I fell victim to many on a daily basis at lease 4 times a day, it was like Eve Online all over again, thank God it's not like that anymore. I'd have quit this game long ago if it was still a thing.

 

[Havvk]

There is often no way to tell the difference at all.

My CMDR has shot down other CMDRs for things they've done years before, when they were highly disadvantaged, without a single word of acknowledgement. To any outside observer and often to the recollection impaired targets themselves, this is no different from from a 'gank' or case of 'griefing', even though hostilities weren't initiated by my CMDR and he had every reason to consider this other one an enemy.
It's easy for victims to completely misinterpret motive, and it should not be on another player to always make their CMDR's mind clear. For example, I once had my CMDR take his FDL into a low wake and destroy an Asp CMDR whose player was apparently afk. The player of that CMDR thought I was a griefer after easy kills. I was actually protecting my CMDR's legitimate economic interests in that system, because this other CMDR had been undermining LYR for hours (and had just suicidewindered out of a 700k bounty) in a system where my CMDR frequently bought parts. Anyway, this CMDR comes back with a friend looking for revenge and they interdict my lone CMDR...first CMDR eats another rebuy and his buddy barely makes it out, while my ship remained largely undamaged. Every single assumption they made about my rationales or abilities was wrong...and this is ok! To this day, the only thing they likely know about the encounter is that I was a much better pilot than either of them. They can keep their other misconceptions, they only harm themselves.

Not once did you at least try to tell the victim to leave. Hence, my point stands

 

[Morbad]

Not once did you at least try to tell the victim to leave. Hence, my point stands

My CMDR was the victim. They were trying to deny him a 15% discount and after he shot down the first one, then they had the audacity to interdict him.

My CMDR felt he was capable of removing them directly, therefore no attempt to verbally convince them to go elsewhere was needed.

From a gameplay perspective, it's better they lose assets before they retreat to a different system or mode so they are materially less capable of continuing actions counter to my CMDR's goals. At least one of those players proved had already demonstrated a willingness to abuse the suicidewinder exploit to avoid the consequences of undermining, so I had no reason to expect them to not abuse other aspects of gameplay to their CMDR's benefit. The only convincing action they could have taken to express non-hostility would have been to abandon the power they were pledged to on the spot, and as this is impossible to compel, more decisive action was the most compelling option.

 

[Riverside]

There is often no way to tell the difference at all.

My CMDR has shot down other CMDRs for things they've done years before, when they were highly disadvantaged, without a single word of acknowledgement. To any outside observer and often to the recollection impaired targets themselves, this is no different from from a 'gank' or case of 'griefing', even though hostilities weren't initiated by my CMDR and he had every reason to consider this other one an enemy.

It's easy for victims to completely misinterpret motive, and it should not be on another player to always make their CMDR's mind clear. For example, I once had my CMDR take his FDL into a low wake and destroy an Asp CMDR whose player was apparently afk. The player of that CMDR thought I was a griefer after easy kills. I was actually protecting my CMDR's legitimate economic interests in that system, because this other CMDR had been undermining LYR for hours (and had just suicidewindered out of a 700k bounty) in a system where my CMDR frequently bought parts. Anyway, this CMDR comes back with a friend looking for revenge and they interdict my lone CMDR...first CMDR eats another rebuy and his buddy barely makes it out, while my ship remained largely undamaged. Every single assumption they made about my rationales or abilities was wrong...and this is ok! To this day, the only thing they likely know about the encounter is that I was a much better pilot than either of them. They can keep their other misconceptions, they only harm themselves.

I have had similar situations & solved them through diplomacy. We each enjoy the game in different ways but you now have some potential enemies where I now have friends.

Neither strategy is wrong but there is more than one way to crack an egg

 

[Morbad]

I have had similar situations & solved them through diplomacy. We each enjoy the game in different ways but you now have some potential enemies where I now have friends.

Neither strategy is wrong but there is more than one way to crack an egg

[video=youtube;4eb0o_l4NjY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eb0o_l4NjY[/video]

I don't always, or even predominantly, have my CMDR behave in an antagonistic or intolerant manner, but I do portray him as being protective of certain things and having firm boundaries. I also project my own personal antipathy toward the exploitation of unintended gameplay functionality as my CMDR's distaste for things like insurance fraud. Maybe this ruffles some feathers, but the opinions of those who leap to the conclusion that I'm some rabid griefer, or don't have a reason for what I have my character do because I didn't type out his manifesto while they logged off, are worth very little to me. I follow the rules of the game and that's all anyone really has any right to ask.

Also, life would be awfully boring without enough enemies to keep one busy.

 

[Havvk]

Or you can just stop being greedy and share that 15% discount. Being selfish is so boring and normie

 

[Morbad]

Or you can just stop being greedy and share that 15% discount. Being selfish is so boring and normie

I wasn't stopping anyone from using the 15% discount.

I was stopping a pair of underminers from removing it from the system.

 

[Riverside]

I don't always, or even predominantly, have my CMDR behave in an antagonistic or intolerant manner, but I do portray him as being protective of certain things and having firm boundaries. I also project my own personal antipathy toward the exploitation of unintended gameplay functionality as my CMDR's distaste for things like insurance fraud. Maybe this ruffles some feathers, but the opinions of those who leap to the conclusion that I'm some rabid griefer, or don't have a reason for what I have my character do because I didn't type out his manifesto while they logged off, are worth very little to me. I follow the rules of the game and that's all anyone really has any right to ask.

Also, life would be awfully boring without enough enemies to keep one busy.

I hope you realise I try not to leap to conclusions Morbad, I agree it is easy to do in both directions, accidentally or otherwise (as Haavk has just demonstrated). I particularly like that you make decisions based on what your character can do in the game, and recognise that trait in my own playstyle. Something to be encouraged regardless of the choices actually made.

 

[Morbad]

I hope you realise I try not to leap to conclusions Morbad

I do.

 

[AP Birdman]

I don't count kiddy land...I mean consoles.

Also I fly an engineered Corvette everywhere I go in Open, so apparently that's helping me from getting ganked. Before that, I fell victim to many on a daily basis at lease 4 times a day, it was like Eve Online all over again, thank God it's not like that anymore. I'd have quit this game long ago if it was still a thing.

Lol you think you're better than us because you're on PC. Good thanks for showing your true colors. I was gonna try to have a reasonable debate with you but I'm not gonna waste my time trying to convince someone who thinks they're better than me because of what system he uses.
Lol what a joke

 

[Riverside]

Lol you think you're better than us because you're on PC. Good thanks for showing your true colors. I was gonna try to have a reasonable debate with you but I'm not gonna waste my time trying to convince someone who thinks they're better than me because of what system he uses.
Lol what a joke

You wouldn't give up so easily in a fight would you?

This isn't about winning though, this is just about understanding. Help people to understand. Not agree, not concede, just to understand. And try to do the same the other way. It's really the only reason I stay in these threads, because others can't be bothered to try to understand what motivates different people.

The teacher always learns more than the pupil. In trying different ways to explain your actions it forces you to better understand them yourself. You may find an inconsistency or you may reaffirm your stance.

Shooting at other players in a game where everyone has guns is a given. Upsetting or frustrating other players is your stated aim, you presumably want them to know you are better than they are, to prove your own worth. Is this statement right or wrong in your opinion?

 

[AP Birdman]

You wouldn't give up so easily in a fight would you?

This isn't about winning though, this is just about understanding. Help people to understand. Not agree, not concede, just to understand. And try to do the same the other way. It's really the only reason I stay in these threads, because others can't be bothered to try to understand what motivates different people.

The teacher always learns more than the pupil. In trying different ways to explain your actions it forces you to better understand them yourself. You may find an inconsistency or you may reaffirm your stance.

Shooting at other players in a game where everyone has guns is a given. Upsetting or frustrating other players is your stated aim, you presumably want them to know you are better than they are, to prove your own worth. Is this statement right or wrong in your opinion?

No, I'm just not gonna waste my time with people who have an elitist mentality.

As much as you irritate me sometimes, you can still humble yourself to see the bigger picture but anyone who thinks my opinion is invalid because of the system I play on isn't even worth my time.

Also, you're putting words in my mouth. I've never said frustrating other players is my goal.
I have even stated that I send messages to every player I kill with a list of everything they did wrong and how to avoid getting ganked in the future.
I enjoy playing as the bad guy but I don't support ruining someone else's game to the point where they quit playing. That's counter productive to what I want in the game.

 

[Morbad]

I have a pretty elitist mentality (especially with regard to having never paid for a haircut), I just try to keep it to myself...with varying degrees of success.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

Shooting at other players in a game where everyone has guns is a given. Upsetting or frustrating other players is your stated aim, you presumably want them to know you are better than they are, to prove your own worth. Is this statement right or wrong in your opinion?

Asking first is more appropriate than pre/assuming.
It makes your subsequent question seem disingenuous.
It's a loaded question, sort of along the lines of:

"Have you stopped beating your wife yet?"

I can think of dozens of other reasons, that are less loaded.
Perhaps you should try harder.

Unless your motivation is not to understand, but to malign...

 

[Riverside]

Asking first is more appropriate than pre/assuming.
It makes your subsequent question seem disingenuous.
It's a loaded question, sort of along the lines of:

"Have you stopped beating your wife yet?"

I can think of dozens of other reasons, that are less loaded.
Perhaps you should try harder.

Unless your motivation is not to understand, but to malign...

It's not a trap Bob.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

It's not a trap Bob.

No, it's just disingenuous.

Asking questions is how we don't jump to conclusions after all...

 

[Deleted member 38366]

People gripe a lot about PvP, and act like the game is full of griefers and bullies. But most people are just as worried about losing their ships and their work as the next guy, and don’t want to ruin other people’s fun. If I ever get interdicted by another commander, it’s because I throw caution to the wind and don’t take precautions to avoid being interdicted, or name my ship something really corny and silly to bait people. Normally I’ll just see who has an FSD Interdictor and see what they’re up to. And most the people who like PvP aren’t garbage, antisocial human beings. Is nonconsensual PvP that much of a problem, or is it overblown and people are overly cautious?

There's hardly any PvP in ELITE. GvP however... is rather rampant. Just head into any CG location or other classic Hotspot Systems.

Most "PvP" guys I've met (with the exception of 1. As in : one) were classic Gankers looking to harrass other Players.

If these guys know what they're doing, there is physically no chance to enter the System and make it to any Destination without interdiction. Pure Game mechanics at work.
While in some Ship types the Interdiction can be fought and won, other Ship types stand virtually no chance against common Interdictor Vessels.

Seeing who has an Interdictor and who does not does't work for Targets that aren't within your limited frontal hemisphere to scan.
There's plenty of other side-indicators though and most Interdictors give their intentions away to other Players very easily and early.

Nonconsensual PvP is a severe Problem in ELITE since V1.0.0, due to a combination of various factors that all add up. Factors which have been discussed to death and beaten to Atoms already.
Be it Engineers, PowerPlay Ganker toys or the last incarnation of fake, non-functional and loopholed pseudo-C&P; all are milestones of and reflect that awkward and unhealthy love.

But as usual (ever since V1.0.0), Location and Timing is all that matters.

The root cause : FDev's design decisions. It's not the Gankers.
They naturally got attracted like light attracts moths - but they don't do anything wrong. They just do what FDev's toxic and deeply flawed Design Decisions are openly (pun) inviting them to.
And that's all there is to it.

With the existing Alternatives (Private Group and Solo), luckily not a showstopper.

 

[Morbad]

FalconFly, it's unfortunate your experiences have so colored your views, but I think most of your statements on this topic range from subjective, to misleading, to demonstrably false.

"GvP" is still PvP. Indeed, some of my most rewarding combats have been where my CMDR stood alone against seemingly insurmountable odds...sometimes he escapes, sometimes he goes down, occasionally he even prevails.

I consider myself a "PvP guy" and my CMDR hasn't pointed an interdictor at another CMDR in almost 3.5 years, probably hasn't even equipped one in the last year. Most of my PvP encounters are friendly sparing or self-defense, with the remainder being plausible in-game goal oriented stuff.

Also, there is generally always a way to get to one's destination, no matter how well blockaded a system is. It will often be difficult and extremely protracted if you get placed in an instance with nothing but wings of hostiles, but even then there are tactics that can get one through...and if one doesn't have the patience for this, they can always find someplace safer.

 

[AP Birdman]

Nonconsensual PvP is a severe Problem in ELITE since V1.0.0, due to a combination of various factors that all add up. Factors which have been discussed to death and beaten to Atoms already.
Be it Engineers, PowerPlay Ganker toys or the last incarnation of fake, non-functional and loopholed pseudo-C&P; all are milestones of and reflect that awkward and unhealthy love.

What a foolish thing to say. The pvp community in this game is one of the most social gaming communities I've ever experienced.

You are clearly very uninformed on this games community probably because no one likes socializing with you since you think so poorly of them.
Maybe if you change your attitude more pvpers would enjoy playing with you.

 

[Deleted member 38366]

FalconFly, it's unfortunate your experiences have so colored your views, but I think most of your statements on this topic range from subjective, to misleading, to demonstrably false.

"GvP" is still PvP. Indeed, some of my most rewarding combats have been where my CMDR stood alone against seemingly insurmountable odds...sometimes he escapes, sometimes he goes down, occasionally he even prevails.

I consider myself a "PvP guy" and my CMDR hasn't pointed an interdictor at another CMDR in almost 3.5 years, probably hasn't even equipped one in the last year. Most of my PvP encounters are friendly sparing or self-defense, with the remainder being plausible in-game goal oriented stuff.

Also, there is generally always a way to get to one's destination, no matter how well blockaded a system is. It will often be difficult and extremely protracted if you get placed in an instance with nothing but wings of hostiles, but even then there are tactics that can get one through...and if one doesn't have the patience for this, they can always find someplace safer.

Just ask FDev Livestream guys, I've heard the last one was a blast. Will got blown up. In Open. Then again. And again. In a Mining Type-9.
Sounds familiar? It should, because that's how it always ends for those poor guys. Symptomatic and it happens all the time.