Modes Some food for thought...

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Robert Maynard
CMDR EDGEL0RD said:
It's a bit more than a PvP flag. People without it are instanced away from people with PvP enabled.
Click to expand...

As others have already mentioned, this would translate to Open(-PvP) as we have now plus an Open-PvE mode with an unlimited population - something that Frontier seem to consider to be challenging to implement (given that PvP is not limited to shooting at other ships).

This section in particular was interesting:

Phalanx said:
Gear scaling
In order to create a fair fights and good gameplay, our goal is to limit the extremes in power between players in War Mode that come from gear and level. We want you to have an advantage if your gear is better, but within reason. The experience should be something similar to Unrated Battlegrounds in Legion (but without the stat templates). Keep in mind this is scaling only in PvP combat, so your power against creatures in the world will remain the same as it would be with War Mode disabled.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:

CMDR EDGEL0RD

CMDR EDGEL0RD
Robert Maynard said:
As others have already mentioned, this would translate to Open(-PvP) as we have now plus an Open-PvE mode with an unlimited population - something that Frontier seem to consider to be challenging to implement (given that PvP is not limited to shooting at other ships).

This section in particular was interesting:
Click to expand...

Thing is, how Mobius is not the Open PvE mode, even better than that, as it provides more immersive gameplay but imposes certain ruleset on people.

On the gear scaling, this is the old thing. It happened due to players crying that they want to participate in PvP there without spending any time doing PvE activities. Introduction of this severely hurted players which indulged in PvP all the free time they have while they are not raiding, meaning they liked both PvE and PvP, and liked their PvE progress to have impact on their PvP performance.

"Stat templates" became used in the competitive environment due to healers and tanks being completely overpowered to DPS classes due to raid "meta".
Each normal hit from the boss is about two shotting the DPS, while some "special attacks" three-shot the tank. While tanks aren't noticing normal hits much and can even keep themselves alive under the boss without external healing. In fact, external healing on some tanks is not even needed until said "special attacks" (you still need healers, as pretty much every boss encounter have some mechanics which damage random players or the whole raid altogether). While both tanks and healers have only about 40% less damage than DPS classes.

I was the main tank in my guild a year ago (Human Blood Death Knight, Alliance). And my class along with my gear enabled me to airdrop myself into Horde capital alone, kill all the NPCs there save the "throne room" (as faction leaders are raid bosses pretty much), and murdering every player which would try to oppose me. I had to withdraw only when some adequate raid, with a tank, a couple of healers and all the DPS present in the capital was assembled. What are two/three/five people in Arena would be supposed to do with me?
In the competitive arena/battlegrounds, my hp and defensive stats were pretty much halved. And my self-heals worked about 70% worse. But it was sort of fair. Although I would rather have raids balanced in a manner so my stats could remain the same whenever I was. In fact, things were so until Warlords of Draenor, and no stat templating was ever needed (although some tank/healer abilities didn't work in Arenas still). Moreover, in earlier expansions builds were way more versatile. When tank died for one reason or the other, pretty much every geared melee DPS could step out and tank the boss with some success. But, with such meta raids weren't as challenging.


I am not sure how such systems could be translated to ED. Removal of engineering perhaps. I would be totally ok with that, although it would be kind of sad for some players, I imagine.

If something could be borrowed from WoW in gear aspect, is the previous PvP gear system to some extent:

  • You could not roll with full PvE gear in PvP. There was a stat called "Resilience", which reduced the damage you receive from other players. And this stat on PvP gear replaced some amount of the stats on PvE gear.
    Meaning, that with full PvE gear you would be a glass cannon pretty much.
    It is pretty much obvious how this could be translated to here.

    (I should note that best possible PvP gear for every class was a mix of high tier PvE gear, which you hould get from high tier raids, and high-end Arena items).

  • What can be translated and I would like to be translated for sure is entry-level PvP gear. In WoW, every piece of PvP gear had to be earned through PvP, but you could buy some PvP gear relatively cheap or make some for yourself.
    This gear was about 5-10% worse than cheapest honor PvP gear, but it enabled you to participate in PvP without being a dead weight for your team.

    This can be translated to cheap, pre-engineered but not modifiable PvP-worthy ships being sold/leased in Powerplay capitals. Optionally, those ships could be made unusable for everything except PvP and Powerplay.
 
Last edited:

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Robert Maynard
CMDR EDGEL0RD said:
Thing is, how Mobius is not the Open PvE mode, even better than that, as it provides more immersive gameplay but imposes certain ruleset on people.
Click to expand...

It's a set of player-run Private Groups, each one of which has a limited population, and requires to function on an "honour" system whereby players apply to join and agree to the rules before being accepted. It is not an official game mode that is advertised and can be selected from the Start menu in the launcher.

Of course, "agreeing" to rules does nothing to dissuade those who seek to harvest salt from those who eschew PvP - and they can only be kicked from the PG *after* breaking the rules.

The game itself is unchanged.

CMDR EDGEL0RD said:
I am not sure how such systems could be translated to ED. Removal of engineering perhaps. I would be totally ok with that, although it would be kind of sad for some players, I imagine.
Click to expand...

Removal of Engineering in PvP (just as WoW would seem to have done with gear scaling in PvP only), maybe - no reason to remove it from players who have no interest in PvP and would, quite reasonably, be put out at their game being affected by an entirely optional play-style, in my opinion.
 
Last edited:

CMDR EDGEL0RD

CMDR EDGEL0RD
Robert Maynard said:
It's a set of player-run Private Groups, each one of which has a limited population, and requires to function on an "honour" system whereby players apply to join and agree to the rules before being accepted. It is not an official game mode that is advertised and can be selected from the Start menu in the launcher.

Of course, "agreeing" to rules does nothing to dissuade those who seek to harvest salt from those who eschew PvP - and they can only be kicked from the PG *after* breaking the rules.

The game itself is unchanged.



Removal of Engineering in PvP (just as WoW would seem to have done with gear scaling in PvP only), maybe - no reason to remove it from players who have no interest in PvP and would, quite reasonably, be put out at their game being affected by an entirely optional play-style, in my opinion.
Click to expand...

On the topic:
I belive PGs work exactly as intended. With Mobius clocking over 20k players.
And you know that I post on this forum cause I belive that open does not.

About the "gear":
Not sure about possibility of removing engineering from PvP alone. Some ships do not even fly without that modded PP, you know. As engineering became pretty much "talents" and player builds from WoW.

But what about entry level PvP ships being sold?
 

Jockey79

Jockey79
CMDR EDGEL0RD said:
On the topic:
I belive PGs work exactly as intended. With Mobius clocking over 20k players.
And you know that I post on this forum cause I belive that open does not.
Click to expand...

The Mobius Group advertises on their website around 40,000 players.
Which is over the 20,000 limit, so they've had to split into multiple groups.
Kind of defeating the idea that all group members can play together, as they cannot.
So as a PG it fails as there is too many people and some people are unable to play together.

As a replacement for Open PvE (or "better than Open PvE") it also fails due to the fact it hinges on one person, Mobius.
If he takes ill, goes on holiday or goes to bed. there is no one to administer the group and enforce the group rules.
Also, anyone breaking group rules are ignored by Frontier. But if it was an official Open PvE mode, Frontier would have to be involved in enforcing the rules.

PG also were never intended to be used as major game modes.
Currently using them that way is basically an abuse of the system.
Proven by the fact the Mobius group got so large (25,000+), it broke the game for 3 days and made it unstable.
So no, PGs are not working as intended when they are being used in place of what should be a game feature and lack basic admin tools for owners.

Also, a the Open Only crowd / forced PvP crowd keep telling me, the number of players in the Mobius Group is nothing to brag about.
Elite: Dangerous sold over 3.1 million copies. 40,000 is less than 1% of the player base. We have more users on this forum, than there is members of the Mobius Group.
So it's hardly a model for what makes a good game when so few use it and a "significant majority" (<-- Sandros words) of people play in Open.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom