PvP Is nonconsensual PvP really that much of a problem?

[Stellar Shepherd]

Yes. Go do it and see for yourself.

Thanks for clearing that up, I don't need to since you just told me. That's the point of a discussion, sharing experiences and thoughts, trying to achieve a conclusion.
Now if you don't mind, what would you say are the odds of winning an interdiction, for both sides?

Without them you wouldn't have your moral high-horse, would you?

Regardless of how much this upsets you, he does have a point. However I think younger commanders might do it to prove how "badass" they are to their fellow commanders, regadless it doesn't change the fact that it's an undesired behavior. I don't think it's too common though.

 

[Iskariot]

People gripe a lot about PvP, and act like the game is full of griefers and bullies. But most people are just as worried about losing their ships and their work as the next guy, and don’t want to ruin other people’s fun. If I ever get interdicted by another commander, it’s because I throw caution to the wind and don’t take precautions to avoid being interdicted, or name my ship something really corny and silly to bait people. Normally I’ll just see who has an FSD Interdictor and see what they’re up to. And most the people who like PvP aren’t garbage, antisocial human beings. Is nonconsensual PvP that much of a problem, or is it overblown and people are overly cautious?

But most people are just as worried about losing their ships and their work as the next guy

If the next guy is a guy/gall who is prepared for, and intent on PvP, then he worries much less, because his ship is build for such a confrontation.
The people who complain are most likely people who do not have ships build for PvP. They could be traders or haulers in ships that do not stand a chance against engineered combat ships, and we still do not have cargo insurance.
Many people do not like to become content for somebody who has little to lose him/herself.

and don’t want to ruin other people’s fun.

But I agree that most people in Open are friendly. When I still played open I rarely encountered someone who attacked me.
The chances of getting attacked increase in certain systems, or during CG's of course, but in general the risk is pretty slim, if you know what you are doing.

Being a more seasoned player myself I never got successfully intercepted by aggressive players, but beginners might find it more difficult to escape.

There are a few noob killers who stalk beginner systems. I do think that is a despicable attitude.

 

[Marra Morgan]

Thanks for clearing that up, I don't need to since you just told me. That's the point of a discussion, sharing experiences and thoughts, trying to achieve a conclusion.
Now if you don't mind, what would you say are the odds of winning an interdiction, for both sides?

As I said, try it and see for yourself.

Regardless of how much this upsets you, he does have a point.

I don't think Leper Messiah has ever upset me. That he throws insults like "pond scum" and "lowlifes" and then tries to take the moral high ground is far more amusing than it is upsetting

 

[PeLucheuh]

I don't know, that's something you'll have to tell me, how do you win 90% of interdictions against you, by a player? Where did you come up with the 90% figure and how frequent are those inerdictions in your case?
I'm just following the consensus that interdictions are barely winnable against players. And you're not really helping with just stating a percentage with no frequency or time frame given.

How to win an interdiction whether you are the interdictor or being interdicted : you throttle to 75% (blue zone in SC), aim as precisely as you can to the target (ship or evasion vector) while rolling as much as you can. Switching throttle speed from 100% when on target and 75% when you have to adjust help a lot as well.

I am a PvP oriented player. Interdiction is as common as landing for me. The general concensus is simply wrong and based on people who don't know what they are doing.
The only "advantage" the interdictor has is the initiative. About risk, it is the same : if you loose you gonna drop and have a huge FSD cooldown.

If you are interested and on PC we can meet and i will show you how it is done. The best thing to do is practice.

So... you team up with others to attack players that have no chance against you and to score easy kills, because you suck otherwise?

Or maybe we have different understanding of those terms?

You might argue what is and what is not griefing in Elite (and it would be probably good thing to establish that first), but griefing on it's own is simply toxic behaviour.

Many people say that there is no such thing as griefing in game like Elite, where you don't need a reason to attack other players, and attacking is part of game mechanics. I can see logic in that, although I would argue that actions like ramming other players into station, blocking the exit etc. might be considered griefing. I probably used that term too freely on previous occasions myself, simply thinking about people who enjoy ruining other people's game.
Ganking is a term that simply describes a way of being a jerk.

Careful there, you seem to make a confusion between ganking and seal clubbing.
Ganking is a perfectly legitimate PvP activity used in many situation in order to increase the chance of securing a kill. It is very common in PvP environment and perfectly fine. It promotes co-op gameplay and can be used in many situation like this funny one.

Unfortunately, ganking is used in order to do seal clubbing where veteran players attack new players that have no chance to compete or survive.

Ganking is not a term that simply describes a way of being a jerk as exploring is not one that simply describes a way of being a carebear.
Seal clubbing is though.

 

[Morbad]

How to win an interdiction whether you are the interdictor or being interdicted : you throttle to 75% (blue zone in SC), aim as precisely as you can to the target (ship or evasion vector) while rolling as much as you can. Switching throttle speed from 100% when on target and 75% when you have to adjust help a lot as well.

I am a PvP oriented player. Interdiction is as common as landing for me. The general concensus is simply wrong and based on people who don't know what they are doing.
The only "advantage" the interdictor has is the initiative. About risk, it is the same : if you loose you gonna drop and have a huge FSD cooldown.

I was not aware that increasing throttle, other than to the blue zone to keep rotational rates up, made a tangible difference...would make sense though.

Not sure I agree about risk being the same. The immediate, direct, consequences for failure may be the same, but often the one being interdicted is in much more danger from a long FSD cool down while being in the same instance as his or her attacker, than the interdictor is from being stuck in an empty instance with a long cool down...even if there are hostiles about, they have to be paying attention and have to spend time dropping into a low wake.

In the whole risk/reward assessment process when weighing whether to submit or not, I almost always end up submitting. Even if I was as practiced in fighting interdictions as yourself, I'd still be losing more ships by failing 10% of my escape attempts, and possibly being overwhelmed before that cooldown is over, than by submitting every time and being able to leave essentially at will if I prove to be outmatched. Even if two grom bombs mange to land sequentially that's still less of a delay than the cooldown.

 

[Stellar Shepherd]

As I said, try it and see for yourself.

I will, but to establish a common opinion we'll need more than just one opinion, don't you think? Usually asking someone with more experience for input should be productive, unfortunately not everyone is willing to provide information unless the outcome is more beneficial to them.

As for Leper, not that I'd ever defend insulting anyone, you missed the point of the argument and chimed in just to try and get a response. There's a difference between calling out someone and actively going out of your way to anger someone or even boosting your confidence by placing yourself in an obvious advantage.

No wonder this topic isn't going anywhere, but then again that goes in your favor, doesn't it?

How to win an interdiction whether you are the interdictor or being interdicted : you throttle to 75% (blue zone in SC), aim as precisely as you can to the target (ship or evasion vector) while rolling as much as you can. Switching throttle speed from 100% when on target and 75% when you have to adjust help a lot as well.

I am a PvP oriented player. Interdiction is as common as landing for me. The general concensus is simply wrong and based on people who don't know what they are doing.
The only "advantage" the interdictor has is the initiative. About risk, it is the same : if you loose you gonna drop and have a huge FSD cooldown.

If you are interested and on PC we can meet and i will show you how it is done. The best thing to do is practice.

Thank you very much for that, that answers a lot. Yes I am on PC, so far I've did the usual submit routine when being interdicted so this could prove helpful. I wouldn't mind practicing both interdictions and pvp.

 

[PeLucheuh]

I was not aware that increasing throttle, other than to the blue zone to keep rotational rates up, made a tangible difference...would make sense though.

Not sure I agree about risk being the same. The immediate, direct, consequences for failure may be the same, but often the one being interdicted is in much more danger from a long FSD cool down while being in the same instance as his or her attacker, than the interdictor is from being stuck in an empty instance with a long cool down...even if there are hostiles about, they have to be paying attention and have to spend time dropping into a low wake.

In the whole risk/reward assessment process when weighing whether to submit or not, I almost always end up submitting. Even if I was as practiced in fighting interdictions as yourself, I'd still be losing more ships by failing 10% of my escape attempts, and possibly being overwhelmed before that cooldown is over, than by submitting every time and being able to leave essentially at will if I prove to be outmatched. Even if two grom bombs mange to land sequentially that's still less of a delay than the cooldown.

You are correct. I was talking only about the interdiction mechanic without taking into concideration the consequences of a failure that are, as you said different in terms of risk.

My bad.

 

[Florenus]

Careful there, you seem to make a confusion between ganking and seal clubbing.
Ganking is a perfectly legitimate PvP activity used in many situation in order to increase the chance of securing a kill. It is very common in PvP environment and perfectly fine. It promotes co-op gameplay and can be used in many situation like this funny one.

Unfortunately, ganking is used in order to do seal clubbing where veteran players attack new players that have no chance to compete or survive.

Ganking is not a term that simply describes a way of being a jerk as exploring is not one that simply describes a way of being a carebear.
Seal clubbing is though.

That clears things up a bit. I've always treated Ganking as strictly pejorative term, but I get your point.

 

[Morbad]

Usually asking someone with more experience for input should be productive, unfortunately not everyone is willing to provide information unless the outcome is more beneficial to them.

Most people here will give you an honest account of their experiences, it's just that experiences tend to be subjective.

On this topic, on the one occasion my CMDR did make use of the interdictor against enough other CMDRs to get a feel for it, his success rate was probably 60% against those that resisted, and this was with me being very inexperienced in it. However, this was mostly against equally inexperienced targets and was way back in mid-2015; I have essentially zero experience interdicting unwilling player-piloted targets since.

I can count on one hand the number of times my CMDR has tried to fight CMDR interdiction which is far too small a number for me to even form a subjective opinion about it's difficulty. So, I have only second hand experiences to quote if asked to comment.

Ultimately, I either want to fight, in which case submitting is easier. Or I do not want to fight, in which case submitting is easier. If I participated in wing PvP more where tying someone up via interdiction, delaying an engagement, or pulling just the right member of a wing first could provide a tactical advantage, I'd be far more inclined to improve my skills in this area. Same would go if I were a frequent participant in activities that were time sensitive that required my CMDR to be somewhere specific, but the game doesn't really incentivise this very well, at least as far as my CMDR is concerned. The only reason I go to most CGs is to shoot people and be shot at by people; space is big, even in the bubble, and my CMDR can't be bothered to care about the fate of most of it...and the purely monetary rewards are both meaningless as well as being outstripped by half the stuff on any given mission board. There are certainly some exceptions, where my CMDR has a vested interest in what's going on in an area, but these rarely coincide with an active CMDR presence...it's mostly BGS stuff where the opposition isn't even in the same mode.

 

[Alyssa]

Hello, professional ganker here.
90% of players I pull over that don't want to be shot at are able to get out. The other 10% either have horrible builds that shouldn't be used in open or they're just dumb and don't know how to get out.
If you are a player that is getting killed regularly and easily by other players, get good or switch to solo.

Also, most gankers gank because ED doesn't have any kind of organized pvp and cqc is a joke.

I have only one question: Gankers why keep shooting if their prey a) not shooting back, b) new to the game who will die before s/he would realize what happenig? Yes, everybody knows there are 2 options to prevent this, but what if someone would like to say a friendly o7 to others without to see rebuy screen? This why this kind of topics will go nowhere, because both side unable to understand each others. And my opinion is dedicated PvP section wouldn't stop those who looking for helpless prey. It's still the easier way to feed their wishes than fight with someone who may shoot back.

 

[CMDR Big Mike]

Now what if they updated the C&P system to dissuade people blasting CMDRs for no reason. If you blow up a CMDR that does not have a bounty, and is not pledged to a PP faction, then the fine should be substantial (millions).

Then add a public list of the top 10-15 CMDRs with the highest bounty so the community can hunt them

 

[AP Birdman]

I have only one question: Gankers why keep shooting if their prey a) not shooting back, b) new to the game who will die before s/he would realize what happenig? Yes, everybody knows there are 2 options to prevent this, but what if someone would like to say a friendly o7 to others without to see rebuy screen? This why this kind of topics will go nowhere, because both side unable to understand each others. And my opinion is dedicated PvP section wouldn't stop those who looking for helpless prey. It's still the easier way to feed their wishes than fight with someone who may shoot back.

For me, believe or not, I do it to teach other players, as backwards as it might sound but hear me out.

Perfect example, last night at the CG some new CMDR thought it would be a good idea to fly a shieldless type 6 into the CG, so I had to teach him the error of his ways. After he died I immediately sent him a message telling him everything he did wrong and asked what he was thinking flying a shieldless type 6 into the CG. He said he was new and didn't know what the CG was and thanked me for giving him pointers on how not to die in open.
Now if I come across him again I might pull him just to see if he's learned anything but I get no joy out of killing a new player over and over again till they quit. That's counterproductive to what I want in the game which is more pvp capable players to fight with.

For me, blowing up other players that I can clearly see aren't going to win is an opportunity to meet a new player and potentially take them under my wing.

To think I'm just doing it for the lulz is extremely narrow minded.

 

[AP Birdman]

Now what if they updated the C&P system to dissuade people blasting CMDRs for no reason. If you blow up a CMDR that does not have a bounty, and is not pledged to a PP faction, then the fine should be substantial (millions).

Then add a public list of the top 10-15 CMDRs with the highest bounty so the community can hunt them

It's not for no reason. Go back and read literally anything I've said in the past 20 pages of this thread.


Although I think this would make for some fun gameplay.
Recently, a not-so-nice player decided to go seal clubbing in the starting system Eravate and racked up a bounty of 40 million cr for all the players he killed. When word spread about this literally every player I know ("griefers" included) went hunting him and it actually made for some really exciting gameplay.

 

[Marra Morgan]

Now what if they updated the C&P system to dissuade people blasting CMDRs for no reason. If you blow up a CMDR that does not have a bounty, and is not pledged to a PP faction, then the fine should be substantial (millions).

Then add a public list of the top 10-15 CMDRs with the highest bounty so the community can hunt them

It wouldn't make the slightest bit of difference.

Really, if you want to come up with a good idea for C&P then you need to understand how both sides of the law work.

 

[CMDR Big Mike]

But do you accept that in an active sport like football, taking a hit in the groin is something that could happen? You just hope it doesn't and try to mitigate it (maybe by wearing a cup).

And on this analogy, nobody wants to play with the guy that goes around kicking people in the groin. It’s punishable within the rules of the game, as is random murder in elite.

Moral of the story is if you play like a jerk, other will not want to play with you for long. Hence the rise of Mobius and the amount of people that play solo/PG.

 

[Florenus]

For me, believe or not, I do it to teach other players, as backwards as it might sound but hear me out.

Perfect example, last night at the CG some new CMDR thought it would be a good idea to fly a shieldless type 6 into the CG, so I had to teach him the error of his ways. After he died I immediately sent him a message telling him everything he did wrong and asked what he was thinking flying a shieldless type 6 into the CG. He said he was new and didn't know what the CG was and thanked me for giving him pointers on how not to die in open.
Now if I come across him again I might pull him just to see if he's learned anything but I get no joy out of killing a new player over and over again till they quit. That's counterproductive to what I want in the game which is more pvp capable players to fight with.

For me, blowing up other players that I can clearly see aren't going to win is an opportunity to meet a new player and potentially take them under my wing.

To think I'm just doing it for the lulz is extremely narrow minded.

That's the most hilarious excuse I've ever read.
You're attacking and destroying another player's ship, because he might be attacked and destroyed.
I suppose CG's are full of self appointed teachers who only try to prepare poor noobs for... other teachers.

 

[CMDR Big Mike]

It wouldn't make the slightest bit of difference.

Really, if you want to come up with a good idea for C&P then you need to understand how both sides of the law work.

It would make at least a slight bit of difference.

 

[AP Birdman]

That's the most hilarious excuse I've ever read.
You're attacking and destroying another player's ship, because he might be attacked and destroyed.
I suppose CG's are full of self appointed teachers who only try to prepare poor noobs for... other teachers.

I wouldn't expect YOU to understand because you seem to have a hard time understanding anything but it's not an excuse of any kind.
Believe it or not I have 3 cmdrs under my wing that I met because I blew them up in weak, unengineered ships. I sent them a message informing them of what they did wrong, we laughed about it, I offered my help and last night I helped one of my rookies unlock 2 engineers.

Most players I encounter dont have a poor or salty attitude about it and are eager to learn which is why I think these threads are a load of crap.

 

[Morbad]

We all know that "ganging up" in any way shape or form is the act of complete cowards, it's been happening throughout history and pixels or no pixels is the SAME human behavioural trait.

I don't 'know' that any more than I know taking on needless risk is the act of abject fools.

Also, risk aversion and taking advantage of strength in numbers were behavioral traits long before there were humans.

Regarding player skill, it's like a top level sports team/person playing a team from WAY lower....I'm not talking Premier league V lower league (uk footy), I'm talking Premier league V pub team. Regarding ship build it's like a youngster in a kart V an F1 car.

It's the GAP that is the issue, if the odds were fairer then there would be less complaints, the gap is clearly ridiculous at times. FD should either have in game methods to punish Seal Clubbers or the game should have some sort of match making system to even the odds.

Except that the in-game setting and events that occur in it's context aren't supposed to look like a sporting event. We aren't playing characters that are sportsmen, we are playing characters that are going about their lives and trying to get ahead as spaceship commanders in the Elite universe.

Rationally, most every character should be trying to stack their odds in their favor as heavily as possible, and the game should encourage this, within context.

 

[Florenus]

I wouldn't expect YOU to understand because you seem to have a hard time understanding anything but it's not an excuse of any kind.
Believe it or not I have 3 cmdrs under my wing that I met because I blew them up in weak, unengineered ships. I sent them a message informing them of what they did wrong, we laughed about it, I offered my help and last night I helped one of my rookies unlock 2 engineers.

Most players I encounter dont have a poor or salty attitude about it and are eager to learn which is why I think these threads are a load of crap.

It never even occured to you to ask if they want some pointers, or "lessons" first, right?

The problem is that people that share your perspective rarely consider point of view that might be different from theirs.
Git gut or git lost, right?