PvP Is nonconsensual PvP really that much of a problem?

[Riverside]

Hey, you wanna outfit your ship poorly for whatever reason that's your own business I suppose. I'll keep taking responsibility for my safety by putting shields (and other defensive measures) on non-combat ships.

See you say poorly, when what I think you actually mean is min/maxed, just like a PvP ship. And a min/maxed trader is shieldless. imo both are as practical as each other, a PvP ship filled with HRPs is useless for carrying cargo, travelling, anything but what it was designed for, keeping it's pilot safe.

Horses for courses imo, you get to slug away at another min/maxed PvP ship for half an hour until they high wake & you return to dock to rearm & repair, the shieldless trader maximised profits & just high wakes at the slightest threat.

Not really sure I could decide which is more silly or poorly built, it just depends what you want to use the ship for. It's the 'but they are doing it wrong' attitude in both directions that's the problem imo.

Play your own way, let them play theirs.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

...

Play your own way, let them play theirs.

Aaaaand the post in question:

The only proper way to fly a non-combat ship is shieldless.

Brilliant.

And Phisto's context:

Hey, you wanna outfit your ship poorly for whatever reason that's your own business I suppose.

LOL...

 

[Havvk]

Aaaaand the post in question:





Brilliant.

And Phisto's context:





LOL...

And this is supposed to achieve...what exactly?

 

[Riverside]

Aaaaand the post in question:





Brilliant.

And Phisto's context:





LOL...

You understand

This is a special moment Bob, treasure it.

And this is supposed to achieve...what exactly?

Well for one thing it shows that Bob actually read & took on board my point. I wonder how long this moment of clarity will last?

 

[TheMegaTurnip]

The only proper way to fly a non-combat ship is shieldless.

Don't you mean combat ships?


Shieldless Eagle vs FDL really seperates the men from the boys

 

[Chaparral]

Tonight I went to the CG haz res in a PVE courier (glitch build with scramble spectrum bursts, PA with dispersion field - about 600 shield and about 1k hull -definitely not meta but fun), and I was happily killing an Anaconda (nothing special, Master or something), had him down to 26%, when an FDL with a very fun PVP build attacked me. He promptly shot out my mods with a super penetrator (pretty sure rail) within 10 seconds (despite my spiral FA off juking and boosting and hiwake FSD spin up), and then literally toyed with me with a force cannon. He had me spinning and flying at 900m/s. It was actually extremely fun, and he let me live with 16% hull. If naming and shaming weren't a thing I would extend a sincere thank you.

My point is that players looking for "nonconsenual" pvp (which was a different commander's ship name at the station), are indeed present, and are not hanging about for an RP reason. They are there using the game mechanics to have fun. If players want to whine about what other players do with the mechanics, they really need to go after FDEV and not the pvp players. This thread like so many others of the same type keeps trying to shame pvp players and that will never have any productive impact on "nonconsenual" pvp. Lobby for a PVE server or play PG - please stop wasting your time trying to change the hearts and minds of these pvp players.

 

[Havvk]

Don't you mean combat ships?


Shieldless Eagle vs FDL really seperates the men from the boys

Shieldless Commander FA-off vs Fully decked out engineered FDL is the only true way to prove that your Elite rank in combat is deserved. Kidding btw

 

[Zeeman]

As a concept, no, not at all.

Some people really dislike it, but it's part of the games design.

Personally though, I would prefer if people attacking other people, had a reason beyond "I have guns and they explode"

You know, like an in game reason, one that makes sense within the game world, not motivated from outside of it.

People often kill people for no good reason in the real world. Just do a search for "one punch deaths". Basically, one person comes up behind another, and for no good reason, punches them in the back of the head. This has lead to many deaths from the impact of the victim's head on to the hard concrete.

The way I see it, "griefing" is the in-game version of such things. More likely to happen in game because, well, it's a gane, but like the real life threat, there are ways to mitigate the risk to virtually 0.

Z...

 

[Riverside]

People often kill people for no good reason in the real world. Just do a search for "one punch deaths". Basically, one person comes up behind another, and for no good reason, punches them in the back of the head. This has lead to many deaths from the impact of the victim's head on to the hard concrete.

The way I see it, "griefing" is the in-game version of such things. More likely to happen in game because, well, it's a gane, but like the real life threat, there are ways to mitigate the risk to virtually 0.

Z...

It's difficult to compare attacks in a game to real life examples, because the consequence is not the same. The player whose ship is destroyed doesn't actually die, they just lose progress and the antagonist is not put in prison for years, they only face being chased away or maybe losing a ship & some cash (again, progress). IMO the in-game punishment (losing progression) is okay, although the actual amounts lost by each player is a point for debate.

But psychologically I think it's important that those who say 'it's just a game' understand that to some it isn't, the attacks can come from motivations outside of the game, and the effect on the victim can be personal - the game is just a medium for carrying out the attack. The kind of player that would act like that doesn't need game rules to entertain them, they just need to be banned.

As usual, intent is difficult to establish of course.

 

[Havvk]

It's difficult to compare attacks in a game to real life examples, because the consequence is not the same. The player whose ship is destroyed doesn't actually die, they just lose progress and the antagonist is not put in prison for years, they only face being chased away or maybe losing a ship & some cash (again, progress). IMO the in-game punishment (losing progression) is okay, although the actual amounts lost by each player is a point for debate.

But psychologically I think it's important that those who say 'it's just a game' understand that to some it isn't, the attacks can come from motivations outside of the game, and the effect on the victim can be personal - the game is just a medium for carrying out the attack. The kind of player that would act like that doesn't need game rules to entertain them, they just need to be banned.

As usual, intent is difficult to establish of course.

 

[Florenus]

Though i find the act of killing unarmed/unengineered ships distasteful, why exactly should it?

If people have a different point of veiw then they can avoid the players who will shoot at them. Same as the rest of the community does.

The running trend here, as far as I can tell and regarding these threads is that the most vocal about the distasteful side of PvP are often the ones who got killed, and instead of taking on board the advice, got salty and went about it "thier way" instead of adjusting to the challenges other players might represent and suffered the consequences of not making the sensible choices.

Once again, though it's been said many times, the game provides you with everything you need to escape from any kind of PvP with nothing but scratches. It's about applied logic.
Even in an Eagle, a wing of 4 is going to struggle to kill you before you've submitted and high waked elsewhere. Hell, I even test this regualrly with a basic engineered hauler (Thrusters + Distro @ G3) and seldom ever get killed unless I decide to be a . All the tools are there and often require little to no engineering.

There was one question that OP has asked: Is nonconsensual PvP problematic in this game.
Of course PvPers say it's not, PvEers say it is, I say it's hard to say, but PvPers that converge on known locations like CG or starter system tend to do what they did during last FDev stream - be annoying and actually scare many people out of Open. Later we can find threads like "Dear Solo and PG CMDRs..."

Come play in Open, we have cookies

This is probably half serious, but not as much as they would like us to think - they refuse to make any kind of concession to other players and are left alone to bite eachother. And it's a waste of space. Litrerally. Whole galaxy in one mode for guys that pretty much gather in one or two places.

Whole discussion on whether it is ok to attack other players that don't want PvP is pretty much pointless. If they can, they will.

I tried to convince them that if they do, they should make it interesting, so even if I get blown up in the end I'll be entertained enough to not avoid them by playing Solo.
To this I was told that it is my job to do that, make my ship capable of defending itself and learn how to high wake.
And I was unable to explain that that is not the point. That I like being blown up. Escaping is not my objective, because I can always NOT PLAY IN THE OPEN! That I like (well, sort of) playing a trader in crappy ship that gets ed up. But if it takes 5 seconds every time and noone is even trying to talk, then it's boring and not worth my time.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

And this is supposed to achieve...what exactly?

I am expressing mirth.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

See you say poorly, when what I think you actually mean is min/maxed

Nope. I meant poorly.

I can't stand min/maxed ships and don't fly them.

 

[Riverside]

Nope. I meant poorly.

I can't stand min/maxed ships and don't fly them.

So you mean people are playing the wrong way?

You sure it's not just the complaining (like you are doing) that's the problem? And by problem I mean creating reasons to divide the community rather than bring it together.

The ship builds are neither the cause nor a symptom of any problem other than game design. The attitude that people are doing it wrong in any particular way is the problem.

Just play your own way, and let them play theirs. What difference does it make to you?

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

So you mean people are playing the wrong way?

You sure it's not just the complaining (like you are doing) that's the problem? And by problem I mean creating reasons to divide the community rather than bring it together.

The ship builds are neither the cause nor a symptom of any problem other than game design. The attitude that people are doing it wrong in any particular way is the problem.

Just play your own way, and let them play theirs. What difference does it make to you?

Gods forbid someone go to the trouble of calling out foolishness in the hope that it might cut down on threads like this and increase the enjoyment of my fellow players. But hey, if you want to argue like you do and bind people to the mediocrity you so desperately embrace that's your business.

But I'm going to 'play my way' (what a stupid phrase these days) and say what I feel. If you and others can't figure out how to reconcile that so we all can still get along? Oh well. Not my problem.

 

[Riverside]

Gods forbid someone go to the trouble of calling out foolishness in the hope that it might cut down on threads like this and increase the enjoyment of my fellow players. But hey, if you want to argue like you do and bind people to the mediocrity you so desperately embrace that's your business.

But I'm going to 'play my way' (what a stupid phrase these days) and say what I feel. If you and others can't figure out how to reconcile that so we all can still get along? Oh well. Not my problem.

You do you think it should be okay for you to complain but not others? Or are you going to concede the point that it's not how someone plays that's a problem, but how you react to how they play?

You can't help everyone. You can offer, but if they don't consent to taking your advice all you can do is think they are being contrary and leave them to it. Don't say it to their face of course, that would be rude. People don't like to be told they are doing things wrong.

 

[jasonbarron]

Gods forbid someone go to the trouble of calling out foolishness in the hope that it might cut down on threads like this and increase the enjoyment of my fellow players. But hey, if you want to argue like you do and bind people to the mediocrity you so desperately embrace that's your business.

But I'm going to 'play my way' (what a stupid phrase these days) and say what I feel. If you and others can't figure out how to reconcile that so we all can still get along? Oh well. Not my problem.

^Hold the phone bois, I spotted a forum griefer^

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

You do you think it should be okay for you to complain but not others? Or are you going to concede the point that it's not how someone plays that's a problem, but how you react to how they play?

You can't help everyone. You can offer, but if they don't consent to taking your advice all you can do is think they are being contrary and leave them to it. Don't say it to their face of course, that would be rude. People don't like to be told they are doing things wrong.

How I react? How many times in the last couple of pages have I essentially said, 'Hey, you can do something I think is ill advised. It's your life and your game.'

And why wouldn't you say it to their face? Anything worth saying should be done that way. Anyway, I'm done talking with you today, Riverside.

^Hold the phone bois, I spotted a forum griefer^

Praise the gods and pass the ammunition!

 

[jasonbarron]

How I react? How many times in the last couple of pages have I essentially said, 'Hey, you can do something I think is ill advised. It's your life and your game.'

And why wouldn't you say it to their face? Anything worth saying should be done that way. Anyway, I'm done talking with you today, Riverside.

Your points seem very straight forward and common sense oriented to me, Phisto. IMO your last half dozen posts and attitude in general can be summed up as saying, in effect: "You play how you wanna play, and I'll play how I wanna play, and if that includes you flying in an unshielded non-combat ship that's bueno, just like it's bueno if I see you in the unshielded non-combat ship and reduce you to pretty sparkles."

Restoring balance to the Force as it were.

 

[Gobo]

Killing traders etc in ill prepared ships is the only thing I actually enjoy in the game nowadays especially people that send you begging messages before the BOOM