PvP Is nonconsensual PvP really that much of a problem?

[Bob Lighthouse]

No, Bob, it's called being a troll.
Nobody is interested in any first thing that comes to your mind, you're not that fascinating.
If you don't agree, use arguments to explain your point of view, or keep your fingers out of the keyboard.

Hahaha, don't tell me what to do.
You don't speak for everyone.

I'm not trolling at all.
I just call it like I see it.
If you don't know what you're talking about, that is a perfectly acceptable thing to point out, and laugh about.

The only people trolling are you and your ilk.
And poorly at that.
LOL...

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

What a cop out. So everyone has to prove thing to you because you’re some mighty arbiter of truth?

In all honesty, with the way you conduct yourself in the forums, it appears that you just like annoying people and not contributing anything useful.

Evidence works both ways. I’m arguing serial killers are bad for the game. You must think they are good? Put forth an argument or pipe down and let the adults hash things out.

No, that's just how evidence/proof works.
You made the extraordinary claim.
You said they were objectively bad for the game.
The popularity of open suggests just the opposite.

Sorry, you fail at the most basic application of this concept.

I don't need to put forth an argument, lol...
That's the whole point of Hitchen's razor and the burden of proof.
Your position is horsepucky.

 

[CMDR Big Mike]

Alright. Some people need the Director's Cut.

Evidence isn't based on what you want to be true or feel to be true. Evidence is based on that which can be independently verified- in this case, when the developers of a video game have made it clear that a certain mode is the most popular and that the financial and participatory health of the game is considered good. The words mean the exact same thing no matter who reads them. No, it isn't as detailed as releasing exact numbers or the methods used to interpret them, but it's the best we have to go off of. It's for dang sure better than anecdotes and one's feelings about the matter.

And please don't make vague appeals to "deductive reasoning" with zero follow-through like some novice debate student hoping to impress an ignorant judge. Deductive reasoning is when one is able to take a general statement and use it to arrive at a specific conclusion. The application in this case would be to take the general statement that we can deem credible- "open is the most popular mode"- and employ it to arrive at a more specific conclusion - "PvP is not, in fact, driving people out of open in significant numbers." It isn't as tidy as "all cars have steering wheels > Fords are cars > Fords have steering wheels", but it's a far more reasonable use of such than wherever you were going with it. What you were attempting to do is actually an example of inductive reasoning- starting from something specific and using it to arrive at a generalized conclusion, e.g., "I have an anecdote of a player or players leaving the game because of gankers, and therefore the game's participatory health is or will be in jeopardy". That in itself is technically solid inductive reasoning, but has the disadvantage of being contradicted by the best available evidence. This is why you can't make these kinds of arguments by logic alone- both deductive and inductive logic can be employed to make statements that are logically sound but either untrue or even absurd. You also can't rely on singular anecdotes or the emotional weight of these anecdotes- we're talking about the behavior of a video game community, which means taking a large number of samples and evaluating them as a collective whole- which simply can't be done accurately by any except those with access to all the information.

Is it even worth explaining how people who have access to the entirety of the game's metrics are a more credible source of information than those who deal in anecdotes and assumptions? Or will you simply dismiss that, too?

Hope you enjoyed writing that, but it doesn’t change anything. Evidence needs to be pertinent to the issue at hand, and prove or disprove a point/argument. The “evidence” you provided, is too general to be of use in this forum topic. Open could easily be most popular buy the fact that it’s the first option on the list. The fact that the game is doing well could be entirely due to the fact that people just like spaceships because they are cool.

The facts you posted are not evidence of anything. You still feel like random murder is a good thing. There’s no logic to back up the fact that random murder is a good thing

 

[CMDR Big Mike]

Criminals if it makes since? I kill people whether they like it or not, therefore I'm a criminal, so fight me.

Why do you need an actual in-game system to dictate who is the good guy and who is the bad guy?

I used to be with IED because I liked the idea of being a space cop but it turned out to be boring as hell so I decided to be a bad guy and it turns out I meet more people this way.
I dont't need an in-game system telling me if I'm good or bad, why do you?
And now that I'm a "bad guy", I have a bunch of "good guys" to shoot at.

You all act like this is real life, like I need to apply my same life morals to this game, but it's a video game that allows you to play any way you want, including being a bad guy, and I find that enjoyable.

I hear all this "I want to play my way. I want to fly shieldless in open, with no consequences!"
Well what about how I want to play? I want to shoot the dumb commanders that think it's ok to fly shieldless in open play.

Am I not allowed to play the way I want to play because YOU deem it immoral?

Im not trying to tell you how to play. I'll give you suggestions on how to survive an encounter with me but if you decide to continue flying shieldless in open, that's fine, good for you. Just know that I'm still going to blow you up if I find you.
And to be honest, the more you squeal and cry about it, the more I'm going to come after you.

Again, this is the mindset I have issue with. You don’t want anyone to tell you how to play, yet you spend your time telling others how to play. I’m a sense, flying sheildless in open is only a bad idea because of you. You see yourself as doing a public service by blowing people up and then giving them tips. Why not join the PVP leagues and fight others that actually want to fight?

 

[Florenus]

Hahaha, don't tell me what to do.
You don't speak for everyone.

I'm not trolling at all.
I just call it like I see it.
If you don't know what you're talking about, that is a perfectly acceptable thing to point out, and laugh about.

The only people trolling are you and your ilk.
And poorly at that.
LOL...

This is the last time I'm going to respond about it.
You can disagree. But if all you have to say is: "this is nonsense" without any follow up thought about the subject - it's worthless.
Usually even if someone asks you to elaborate, you don't care to explain anything, as if your "concise" judgement was enough. It's not.
Therefore I can only assume that your aim is not to participate in discussion, but rather to disrupt it. And that's trolling.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

This is the last time I'm going to respond about it.
You can disagree. But if all you have to say is: "this is nonsense" without any follow up thought about the subject - it's worthless.
Usually even if someone asks you to elaborate, you don't care to explain anything, as if your "concise" judgement was enough. It's not.
Therefore I can only assume that your aim is not to participate in discussion, but rather to disrupt it. And that's trolling.

Nah, it's so bad it's not even wrong.
I'm not obligated to do anything of the sort.
I'd rather chop through that Gordian knot of brain farts with a good laugh.
Just because you type a lot of words and act offended doesn't mean anything.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_even_wrong

 

[Florenus]

Nah, it's so bad it's not even wrong.
I'm not obligated to do anything of the sort.
I'd rather chop through that Gordian knot of brain farts with a good laugh.
Just because you type a lot of words and act offended doesn't mean anything.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_even_wrong

google netiquette

 

[Dirtbird]

In Star Trek you can't take two steps without tripping on some aliens.
On the other hand no Apollo mission had weapons as far as I know, and when we'll finally see some people going to Mars, I seriously doubt they will do so in armed spacecraft.
And it's not like we're not considering the possibility of intelligent, hostile alien life somewhere. But the chances are so extremely small, that it's not on priority list to prepare.
ED teaches us its rules too. On my first exploration trip I packed a lot of things that seemed reasonable to have, but proved useless for me after all.

I think where I haven't been clear is delineating between sci fi and real life. I had avoided using any real life examples but had not explicitly stated that. In real life, we are space noobs and our own spacecraft and the squandering of its meagre resources is more likely to kill us than a hostile spacecraft in this solar system. Elite Dangerous and Star Trek are fictional and and set in a universe where huge amounts of power, and offensive and defensive systems exist for starships and are available to use. It would be wise to prepare for as much as you can when entering the unknown. I'm coming at this from the point of view that out there, anything could happen.

But then this is a game and what's out there is pretty predictable and so the only thing you have to watch out for is the extremely low chance of running into a hostile CMDR. I just do "exploring" for the space selfies.

 

[TheMegaTurnip]

Why do people who have no interest in PvP constantly pop up in the PvP forums guys?

At the end of the day, this is basically a sandbox game. You start putting rules in, you'll annoy someone somewhere. Thats why, despite C&P being poop, the free game system we have is the single best option.

Everyone can play how they like, rarely are folks forced into situations they find annoying/difficult/boring. This is a good thing.

But quite frankly, and heres the real kicker. PvP players who have that in mind as thier in-game career path, are actually the players who have to tick both the most boxes in terms of game completion (IE: Engineers and the Git Gud), and are FORCED to do multitudes of PvE related activity even if they themselves find it drab and boring. (Not myself, but I know some who do.)

Whereas PvE players can totally avoid the playstyle of PvP if they don't have any interest in it, to the tune of complete circumvention in PG/Solo should they choose.

And yet, who is the most vocal regarding playstyles? Yep. You guessed it. The group who literally is never once made to partake in the opposite playstyle, whatsoever, should they deem it so.

This is where I scratch my head with these posts. Not only is the PvP crowd often demonised for thier chosen playstyle, they are also the players who hands down have worked the hardest to get to where they have, and yet, they are the "lazy and antisocial" players only out to cause misery for others? No. Sorry boys. Those of us going round partaking in powerplay, ganking, or organised fights have put the work in to get to where we are.

At this point what with the same nonsensical stuff being brought up and thrown about, I really have to say it. Stick to your own camp if you don't like the habits of the others. Noone forces anything on you, even if they try. If I can escape a 4v1 in a hauler with G3 drives and no shields/hull, you can pull your fingers out and stop complaining when people try it wih you.

Simples.

 

[Riverside]

Why do people who have no interest in PvP constantly pop up in the PvP forums guys?

This is a thread about the interaction between players who self-identify as PvPers and those that don't. It originated in DD.

When reading through threads like this it's interesting to see those that hold a different viewpoint state it & then see how it is interpreted by those with an opposing view. Some try to understand, some refuse to. Clearly some think there is an issue & therefore this is an appropriate place for them to post (in this thread, regardless of where it ended up).

 

[Gobo]

I really dont understand why some people get so upset as its only a game , its simple if I want to haul 500t in a type 9 then I click on solo but if I want to hunt people hauling 500t in a type 9 then i click on open.
There is a choice so use it.

 

[NeilF]

... if I want to hunt people hauling 500t in a type 9 then i click on open.
There is a choice so use it.

Clarify?

"Hunt" being to pirate the other CMDR for an in game purpose/reason, or to destroy the other CMDR for no in game purpose/reason and instead because of the aggravation/grief?

There lies the rather important core underlying issue in all of these threads I suspect...

 

[Chaparral]

Why do people who have no interest in PvP constantly pop up in the PvP forums guys?

At the end of the day, this is basically a sandbox game. You start putting rules in, you'll annoy someone somewhere. Thats why, despite C&P being poop, the free game system we have is the single best option.

Everyone can play how they like, rarely are folks forced into situations they find annoying/difficult/boring. This is a good thing.

But quite frankly, and heres the real kicker. PvP players who have that in mind as thier in-game career path, are actually the players who have to tick both the most boxes in terms of game completion (IE: Engineers and the Git Gud), and are FORCED to do multitudes of PvE related activity even if they themselves find it drab and boring. (Not myself, but I know some who do.)

Whereas PvE players can totally avoid the playstyle of PvP if they don't have any interest in it, to the tune of complete circumvention in PG/Solo should they choose.

And yet, who is the most vocal regarding playstyles? Yep. You guessed it. The group who literally is never once made to partake in the opposite playstyle, whatsoever, should they deem it so.

This is where I scratch my head with these posts. Not only is the PvP crowd often demonised for thier chosen playstyle, they are also the players who hands down have worked the hardest to get to where they have, and yet, they are the "lazy and antisocial" players only out to cause misery for others? No. Sorry boys. Those of us going round partaking in powerplay, ganking, or organised fights have put the work in to get to where we are.

At this point what with the same nonsensical stuff being brought up and thrown about, I really have to say it. Stick to your own camp if you don't like the habits of the others. Noone forces anything on you, even if they try. If I can escape a 4v1 in a hauler with G3 drives and no shields/hull, you can pull your fingers out and stop complaining when people try it wih you.

Simples.

I think if you view my previous post on this forum, you'll see that I support pvp, and the use of the mechanics to do what ever players want. The big hole in your argument is that there is no Open PVE for social interaction purposes.

 

[AP Birdman]

Again, this is the mindset I have issue with. You don’t want anyone to tell you how to play, yet you spend your time telling others how to play. I’m a sense, flying sheildless in open is only a bad idea because of you. You see yourself as doing a public service by blowing people up and then giving them tips. Why not join the PVP leagues and fight others that actually want to fight?

You have an issue with people wanting to play their way? Isn't that what you're doing to me?

I do take part in pvp in CG's on a regular basis but I also blow up anyone unfortunate enough to cross my path because I meet a lot of solid players with good attitudes this way.


This thread is such a joke, just a bunch of hypocritical players trying to tell us how to play the game.
Even though there's been multiple solutions given here you folks don't want to hear any of them.

Instead of you making minor tweaks to your ship builds or learning how to submit, evade and high wake, no, the game needs to cater to you and your lazy gaming habits.

Well at least you've all shown your true colors of how selfish and hypocritical some of you are.
Thankfully the devs and all the salt free, logical people are on my side.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm gonna go blow up some players in open.

 

[TheMegaTurnip]

I think if you view my previous post on this forum, you'll see that I support pvp, and the use of the mechanics to do what ever players want. The big hole in your argument is that there is no Open PVE for social interaction purposes.

Was more pointed towards a certain few who defiantly don't like PvP, but frequent the forum pages nonetheless.

No. There are enourmously populated PG's, to my knowledge there always has been, I beleive one or two were set up right from the off.

Whilst the idea of Open as it is now, and Open risk free mode together would be better than Open/Pg/Solo, there are already two viable alternatives.

No if you'll excuse me, I'm gonna go blow up some players in open.

o7 Birdman.

Ditto.

 

[AP Birdman]

This is the last time I'm going to respond about it.
You can disagree. But if all you have to say is: "this is nonsense" without any follow up thought about the subject - it's worthless.
Usually even if someone asks you to elaborate, you don't care to explain anything, as if your "concise" judgement was enough. It's not.
Therefore I can only assume that your aim is not to participate in discussion, but rather to disrupt it. And that's trolling.

Because 99% of what you say is nonsense and why waste time explaining things to a brick wall?

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

Clarify?

"Hunt" being to pirate the other CMDR for an in game purpose/reason, or to destroy the other CMDR for no in game purpose/reason and instead because of the aggravation/grief?

There lies the rather important core underlying issue in all of these threads I suspect...

Not at all, and it's not like you'd know the difference.

 

[TheMegaTurnip]

Not at all, and it's not like you'd know the difference.

Bob sign in and get yourself to Shinrarta xD

 

[AP Birdman]

Clarify?

"Hunt" being to pirate the other CMDR for an in game purpose/reason, or to destroy the other CMDR for no in game purpose/reason and instead because of the aggravation/grief?

There lies the rather important core underlying issue in all of these threads I suspect...

I've already given multiple examples of why I pull and destroy other player against their will.

Thinking that we all do it for no reason is a very narrow minded perspective.

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

Bob sign in and get yourself to Shinrarta xD

I've been getting my new mostly harmless alt account up to speed the past couple of weeks.
Need to unlock Selene next.

Please try to shoot me down if you see me!
Alt is Cmdr Bigeye-Longneck.