FTC to investigate Lootboxes

[Robin of Spiritwood]

https://www.engadget.com/2018/11/28/federal-trade-commission-loot-box-gambling/

There's an increased level of scrutiny developing upon monetization in the games industry.
High time.

There's an associated story readers may find interesting:
https://metro.co.uk/2018/11/21/loot...ld-gambling-problem-reveals-uk-study-8164308/

 

[metatheurgist]

Can't wait to see the outcome. I'm expecting them to say it's all above board, something, something personal responsibility because I'm a horrible cynic.

 

[Demascus]

That's a blow to the gaming industry I would love to see. Either removed from games all together or an A.O. rating slapped on anything with lootboxes.

 

[Rade Konn]

Why microtransaction was allowed in the first place and why it took FTC this long to investigate is beyond me.

 

[Caramel Clown]

Why microtransaction was allowed in the first place and why it took FTC this long to investigate is beyond me.

Microtransactions where you purchase a clearly defined item are one thing. When you simply buy a chance to get something it's clearly gambling, and should be regulated as such.

 

[Memnoch]

That's a blow to the gaming industry I would love to see. Either removed from games all together or an A.O. rating slapped on anything with lootboxes.

That might be the softly approach to removing them entirely. Force them to put the equivalent of an 18 certificate on them and they will be forced to remove them as it would cut out a fair chunk of their audience.

 

[Kaocraft]

I'd be delighted if the FTC stayed out of this whole thing. Consumer pressure has already got some of these companies on the back foot, last thing we need is government involvement. Much better solution would be if game journos didn't reflexively call the gaming community "entitled" every time there was pushback against some predatory monetization strategy.

 

[moorison]

I'd be delighted if the FTC stayed out of this whole thing. Consumer pressure has already got some of these companies on the back foot, last thing we need is government involvement.

If every company would play responsibly, there would be a lot less laws and regulations. Children are introduced to gambling as if it is a desirable pastime with a lot more psychological tricks than just the chance for rare items.

 

[Backer42]

I'd be delighted if the FTC stayed out of this whole thing. Consumer pressure has already got some of these companies on the back foot, last thing we need is government involvement. Much better solution would be if game journos didn't reflexively call the gaming community "entitled" every time there was pushback against some predatory monetization strategy.

There is no difference between "game publishers" and so-called "game journos", both are the industry itself doing PR. "Video game magazines" are a scam.

The pushback is needed to avoid getting video games as a whole classified as "gambling" and banned altogether.

 

[metatheurgist]

If every company would play responsibly, there would be a lot less laws and regulations. Children are introduced to gambling as if it is a desirable pastime with a lot more psychological tricks than just the chance for rare items.

People forget that before unions, kids were literally worked to death, people worked for room and board, physical, mental and sexual abuse was common. Business will try and get away with anything if it isn't regulated. Business ethics is an oxymoron.

 

[Iron Golem]

I had a man at work last night buy through two books of thirty dollar tickets over the course of two hours (50 tickets per book at 30$ per ticket, 1500$ per book for 3k$ total). His biggest win was a 100$ he only got two or three times. On the very last ticket he won 40$. He looked at me with tears in his eyes and asked me if he should stop. He slowly develops the shakes and becomes ashen faced as the two hours go by. I reply with the Mass Lottery slogan - "Don't bet more than you can afford to lose". He whispers to me, "I couldn't afford to lose any of it". With tears sliding silently down his face he orders four ten dollar tickets with his last money and leaves. I lose my composure and excuse myself from the counter and stand in the stock room as tears slide down my face.

This is what I do for a living. For 8-12 hours a day. I don't work at a Casino. I work at a convenience store. The lottery is run by the state government. The lottery reps have state official license plates on their vehicles.

The man I just told you about is a barber. I see him a couple times a month.

What do you think these kids are being groomed for. What do you think is going to happen when they turn 18 and come into my store for a soda or a snack and face a literal wall of the ultimate loot box?

You already know what's going to happen to them because I just told you.

https://www.masslottery.com/games/instant/30-dollar/fastest-road-180-2018.html

One of the loot bo.... I mean scratch tickets from my story.

 

[Jacques d'Orleans]

I'd be delighted if the FTC stayed out of this whole thing. Consumer pressure has already got some of these companies on the back foot, last thing we need is government involvement.

If every company would play responsibly, there would be a lot less laws and regulations. Children are introduced to gambling as if it is a desirable pastime with a lot more psychological tricks than just the chance for rare items.

In a time were game companies hire psychologists and file for patents with mechanics to squeeze the last buck out of gamers I think that some sort of regulation for the game industry is long overdue. If we don't stop companies like EA, in a few years it would be even worse than it is today, these people have no morals, no ethics and they surely won't stop voluntarily.
And to be quite frank, Kaocraft, if we would apply your pov on, let's say, the casino industry most of the Las Vegas Casinos would be still run by mobsters.

 

[Backer42]

In a time were game companies hire psychologists and file for patents with mechanics to squeeze the last buck out of gamers I think that some sort of regulation for the game industry is long overdue. If we don't stop companies like EA, in a few years it would be even worse than it is today, these people have no morals, no ethics and they surely won't stop voluntarily.

As someone living in a region, where censorship has always been a problem and video games are barely recognized as an art form, these companies really don't help our case. That's why these shenanigans need to stop, even when I'm not personally affected by it. (Their gambling skinner boxes don't actually work on me.)

 

[Jacques d'Orleans]

As someone living in a region, where censorship has always been a problem and video games are barely recognized as an art form, these companies really don't help our case. That's why these shenanigans need to stop, even when I'm not personally affected by it. (Their gambling skinner boxes don't actually work on me.)

You and me, we are not the target demographic of these scummy practises, they are targeting kids and juveniles with this crap and yes it has to stop. To be quite frank, these companies don't care about nobody except their shareholders, simple as that and as long as that doesn't change and this totally out of control industry is put under law and order, most likely hell will freeze over before games are recognized as an art form.

 

[Kaocraft]

In a time were game companies hire psychologists and file for patents with mechanics to squeeze the last buck out of gamers I think that some sort of regulation for the game industry is long overdue. If we don't stop companies like EA, in a few years it would be even worse than it is today, these people have no morals, no ethics and they surely won't stop voluntarily.
And to be quite frank, Kaocraft, if we would apply your pov on, let's say, the casino industry most of the Las Vegas Casinos would be still run by mobsters.

Why would they be run by mobsters? That makes no sense. My point of view is that you shouldn't be allowed to lie about what you're selling but everything else should be fair game so long as you're not breaking any other existing laws. Psychological manipulation is gross but I'd prefer if consumers were allowed to make their own decisions and the market run its course for a while before we demand government intervention. Once government gets their hands in something it never ends because they see it as a source of money they can bleed out of an industry. In fact government regulators act like mobsters more often than not. The videogame industry doesn't need it and consumers won't benefit from it in the long run. I understand the desire to see the greedy fatcats get their comeuppance but it always comes at a cost and loot boxes just aren't that big of a deal when weighed against the burden of government oversight.

Beyond that I don't know how mobsters factors into this or anything else, or why you think my POV somehow advocates for organized crime. The Mob in Vegas used casinos as money laundering for profits from other illegal activities. They weren't bad because they were "The Mob" and they weren't bad because they ran casinos, they were bad because they killed people, blackmailed people, stole from people, and coerced people with threats of physical violence. When the game industry starts doing that I'm all for government stepping in. So I don't know what you're on about but yay thanks for the grandstanding.

 

[Kaocraft]

There is no difference between "game publishers" and so-called "game journos", both are the industry itself doing PR. "Video game magazines" are a scam.

The pushback is needed to avoid getting video games as a whole classified as "gambling" and banned altogether.

You're not wrong.

You and me, we are not the target demographic of these scummy practises, they are targeting kids and juveniles with this crap and yes it has to stop. To be quite frank, these companies don't care about nobody except their shareholders, simple as that and as long as that doesn't change and this totally out of control industry is put under law and order, most likely hell will freeze over before games are recognized as an art form.

If games were recognized as an art form they wouldn't be regulated. The Art market is the least regulated industry in the world.

 

[moorison]

If games were recognized as an art form they wouldn't be regulated. The Art market is the least regulated industry in the world.

The Art market can be considered comparatively small and for adults.

There are several industries considered artistic, including literature, music, movies and television. All of those have guidelines for media deemed appropriate for children. Gambling is considered inappropriate for children and controlled by the state. Since the problem is already there and not just an idea or possibility, the industry leaders unwilling to immediately change their own rules, those rules will have to be changed by regulation (which will probably take some time itself, a last chance for the industry to safe face). The point here is to protect people.

If society only consists of people with comparable mental growth, many rules would probably be unnecessary. But I think further discussion of the function and effect of regulations in general would (although interesting) both go beyond the topic of this discussion and topics deemed appropriate to discuss on this forum.

 

[Barking_Mad]

People forget that before unions, kids were literally worked to death, people worked for room and board, physical, mental and sexual abuse was common. Business will try and get away with anything if it isn't regulated. Business ethics is an oxymoron.

This. Although 'classical liberals' will bemoan government interfering and tell anyone prepared to listen that if they just moved out of the way, the market would self-regulate. Haha. Funny guys.

For greedy men, there is never enough.

 

[Jacques d'Orleans]

Why would they be run by mobsters? That makes no sense. My point of view is that you shouldn't be allowed to lie about what you're selling but everything else should be fair game so long as you're not breaking any other existing laws. Psychological manipulation is gross but I'd prefer if consumers were allowed to make their own decisions and the market run its course for a while before we demand government intervention. Once government gets their hands in something it never ends because they see it as a source of money they can bleed out of an industry. In fact government regulators act like mobsters more often than not. The videogame industry doesn't need it and consumers won't benefit from it in the long run. I understand the desire to see the greedy fatcats get their comeuppance but it always comes at a cost and loot boxes just aren't that big of a deal when weighed against the burden of government oversight.

Beyond that I don't know how mobsters factors into this or anything else, or why you think my POV somehow advocates for organized crime. The Mob in Vegas used casinos as money laundering for profits from other illegal activities. They weren't bad because they were "The Mob" and they weren't bad because they ran casinos, they were bad because they killed people, blackmailed people, stole from people, and coerced people with threats of physical violence. When the game industry starts doing that I'm all for government stepping in. So I don't know what you're on about but yay thanks for the grandstanding.

Ok, I'll try it again, then let's say if the Auto industry wouldn't have been regulated we would still drive around with Zippo lighters like the Ford Pinto.
But, it's ok, dude, let the market regulate itself, we have all seen how that one worked out in 2008 with all those deregulated US Banks.
Self regulating markets are a oxymoron, it's surely not my fault when you don't get it.