Squadrons and carriers

[M00ka]

we can show you this 20 times and still you would not believe it.

now, can you show me the statement from FDev that it was cancelled? Im sure you cant.

Ilo mate, you are fighting a losing battle. Remember Rambo read 'BETWEEN THE LINES' and interpreted Zac's statement to align with his dislike of anything FD related. If Zac had stated that the carriers were delayed but would be coming in the first half of 2019 as free content, Rambo would be complaining that as a highly valued and oh so important LEP owner that introducing carriers as part of a free update was a slap in the fact to all LEP owners. If Zac has stated that the carriers would be including in the next paid extension then Rambo would be complaining that why do we have to pay for them.

What I find hilariously funny is that we know NOTHING about the way carriers will work in the game, who can own them, how they operate, what they are capable of doing. Yet we have people like Rambo demanding them based on their own wild interpretation on what they think the carriers will be and what the carriers can do.

Rest assured, when the carriers are released, Rambo will be at the forefront telling us how FD screwed up yet again because what is delivered doesn't fit into he personal paradigm he had envisaged.

 

[Braandlin]

Actually they aren't. A return isn't guaranteed. But if not provided they still aren't going to be pleased. If, in my industry, we say to people "well we didn't promise you a return we just said we INTENDED to give you one" it doesn't wash. Perhaps I expect similar standards elsewhere and am dissapointed when I don't see them.

As I've already said, if people are still buying shipkits and paintjobs I don't blame FDev for not really delivering. They don't have to so why spend money on resource when you can make money from failing to produce content?

Show me where I said anything about a guarantee?

It is laughable to hold up the investment industry as some kind of moral guardian for promises and standards. The whole thing is predicated on gambling on forecasts and it is an industry where promises very deliberately are not made and in many cases to suggest a return is guaranteed is either illegal or against the prevailing regulation (depending on jurisdiction).

The fact remains that you are complaining about a feature that has never been promised, only suggested, in a product that you are not paying for. Sure it is disappointing that carriers have been delayed and it is equally frustrating that they spoke about them before having to delay their plans rather than rush them out and do it badly. Would it have been better to not mention them and not raise expectations? Maybe. But remember FDev get a bad press if they don't tell people their plans as they are accused of not caring about their customers.

Also, I'm not sure where you get the idea of FDev "failing to produce content" from?

It seems to me that you just have a belligerent attitude towards people with a differing view to you and twist the facts to support your own spurious argument.

 

[ilo]

Ilo mate, you are fighting a losing battle. Remember Rambo read 'BETWEEN THE LINES' and interpreted Zac's statement to align with his dislike of anything FD related. If Zac had stated that the carriers were delayed but would be coming in the first half of 2019 as free content, Rambo would be complaining that as a highly valued and oh so important LEP owner that introducing carriers as part of a free update was a slap in the fact to all LEP owners. If Zac has stated that the carriers would be including in the next paid extension then Rambo would be complaining that why do we have to pay for them.

What I find hilariously funny is that we know NOTHING about the way carriers will work in the game, who can own them, how they operate, what they are capable of doing. Yet we have people like Rambo demanding them based on their own wild interpretation on what they think the carriers will be and what the carriers can do.

Rest assured, when the carriers are released, Rambo will be at the forefront telling us how FD screwed up yet again because what is delivered doesn't fit into he personal paradigm he had envisaged.

oh I have no doubts, I shall frame your words and save them for his next rant.

 

[RamirezKurita]

And about carriers... the failure was telling people they were coming in the first place. If they don't tell anything... failure. If they tell... failure too. It's not easy developing a game like this and keeping people happy.

The problem isn't announcing carriers, not telling people what's coming in a work-in-progress project is arguably an even greater problem. The problem is announcing nothing beyond their de facto cancellation on the eve of their supposed release. We have no idea whether they ever even started development work on them outside of basic drawing board stuff, or whether they are 90% complete and are been undergoing internal Alpha testing as we speak or anywhere in between. Further, we don't know if they still have a team working on them or whether all development resources for carriers has been pulled and they are left in development limbo. For all we know, they could have just been a fabrication by the marketing teams to build hype for chapter 4 and have never been seriously considered for development.

Players complain about stuff they don't understand, if they were to fully explain the situation both past and present with regards to their situation then we would have much less to complain about. Sure, some people would still complain but those people would complain regardless, but the people on the fence would rest easy if they understand the situation.

If they had said "squadron carriers are running behind schedule because of unforeseen technical issues that will require some engine modifications and it will be impossible to release them alongside Squadrons in chapter 4, staff working on them have been temporarily reallocated to assist with debugging chapter 4 but will be returned to carrier development once C4 is released. To give an idea of the scope of carriers and what to look forward to in the future, here's a video of some internal Alpha testing of them and some renders of the different carrier designs, do note that what's presented here is a Work in Progress and so is subject to change." then we would all be hyped up and jumping for joy with only the most vitriolic individuals complaining.

Hell, we'd probably still be happier if they had simply stated "development on carriers was always a very low priority and no actual work was done on them; development resources were never allocated to them. Conceptually, we are interested in the idea though and so we might revisit them at a later date, but no ETAs or guarantees". At least then we would know the situation and we can stop holding out for them.

 

[AP Birdman]

So far it's not entirely clear what you're actually attempting to contribute to this conversation.

What are YOU contributing to the conversation other than over exaggerated lies and misinformation?

 

[lenna]

Would it have been better to not mention them and not raise expectations? Maybe. But remember FDev get a bad press if they don't tell people their plans as they are accused of not caring about their customers.

And here lies the other edge of the sword...

I think it is clear that FD for whatever reason decided there was not enough time to implement Carriers properly for 3.3 and so dropped them for the foreseeable future (they have not officially announced if or when Carriers will be delivered just that they would like to introduce them which is not the same thing). We may or may not see them as a high priority announcement in the next round of update announcements but to speculate either way would be pure fake-crystal-ball-gazing.

 

[babelfisch]

Hate to break it to you, but as a Sim, Take on Mars blows Elite away. All the way away.
Elite is as much a "Space Sim", as GTA is a City Life sim, perhaps a bit less.

But as a Space Game, yes, Elite is lightyears ahead of pretty much everything else. It doesn't have the no-pressure, your-own-pace of NMS, nor the Just-Six-More-Hours-of-Grind-to-Make-an-Isk of EvE, nor the Story of Mass Effect, the ambiance and action of Dead Space, the creative Construction of Empyrion, but hey, nothing's perfect, or there wouldn't be anything else now would there?

Take on Mars is not a space sim, it's a simulator. Space sim is the genre term for games like Freelancer or Elite.

 

[babelfisch]

Here we have a white knight. Your opinion has no credibility as your entire raison d'etre is to defend everything about FDev and ED regardless of what it is. The best approach is to continue letting you shout into the void while carrying on the conversation around you. You disagree with the complaints and your view has been presented. Nonetheless, my opinion of my experience is more valid than your opinion of my experience.



So far it's not entirely clear what you're actually attempting to contribute to this conversation.

Since you have run out of arguments you need to switch to personal insults and attacks, how very mature.

 

[DeletedUser191218]

Since you have run out of arguments you need to switch to personal insults and attacks, how very mature.

With respect, all you do is argue with anyone who criticizes ED. You've proven irrevocably that you are incapable or unwilling to consider any failing with the game or developer. You're basically just a troll mate looking to argue with anyone who uses a game forum to express frustrations with the game. I find it funny, but I get your method is to add noise into a discussion so the initial complaint is mired and lost. It's a pretty transparent and common forum trolling approach.

 

[M00ka]

With respect, all you do is argue with anyone who criticizes ED. You've proven irrevocably that you are incapable or unwilling to consider any failing with the game or developer. You're basically just a troll mate looking to argue with anyone who uses a game forum to express frustrations with the game. I find it funny, but I get your method is to add noise into a discussion so the initial complaint is mired and lost. It's a pretty transparent and common forum trolling approach.

Likewise, all you can do is find fault in everything FD related and belittle and troll anyone who dares have an opinion counter to yours or worse, state they enjoy the game. I know who I would rather read posts from between Babelfisch or you!

 

[lenna]

With respect, all you do is argue with anyone who criticizes ED. You've proven irrevocably that you are incapable or unwilling to consider any failing with the game or developer.

In this particular case, FD have done nothing expressly wrong - they have altered the content plan for a notionally free update and not declared if or when they will deliver the removed content (in this case Squadron Carriers).

If the new content were part of a explicitly paid for update that would be something else, but that case does not apply here.

FD have done other things that IMO are wrong but out of scope of this particular topic thus I will leave it there.

 

[Gully Foyle]

"Indefinitely delayed". I'm imagining what my company clients would say if we were to give them that line in respect of their investment returns. The standards FDev are held to are very, very low.

It's a gaming company not an investment firm. You aren't losing money if they delay a feature.

Perhaps they feel that there's more important things to be made and fixed in their game.

 

[amigacooke]

All they said was it's not coming with Beyond Chapter Four and " The team are very keen to bring them in". Can you provide the statement where they said it was canceled?

There was a time when Frontier were keen to bring Horizons to macOS. Good intentions are no clear indication of future actions.

 

[Gully Foyle]

There was a time when Frontier were keen to bring Horizons to macOS. Good intentions are no clear indication of future actions.

I too wish Apple had wanted to keep up to date with their OpenGL implementation.

Carriers I could care less. Hand to hand 3rd person thargoid combat planetside YES

 

[thistle]

Doomed.

DOOMED!

 

[babelfisch]

With respect, all you do is argue with anyone who criticizes ED. You've proven irrevocably that you are incapable or unwilling to consider any failing with the game or developer. You're basically just a troll mate looking to argue with anyone who uses a game forum to express frustrations with the game. I find it funny, but I get your method is to add noise into a discussion so the initial complaint is mired and lost. It's a pretty transparent and common forum trolling approach.

Nope, if you would read more of my posts you would realise that I criticise the game and FDEV as well. Just disagreeing with you doesn't make me a brainless fanboy. The shocking truth is that I simply believe that your arguments aren't any good.

 

[DeletedUser191218]

Nope, if you would read more of my posts you would realise that I criticise the game and FDEV as well. Just disagreeing with you doesn't make me a brainless fanboy. The shocking truth is that I simply believe that your arguments aren't any good.

My argument being that I was looking forward to carriers and am dissapointed they haven't arrived? Also that FDev said carriers were coming and told us late on that they weren't which makes me even less confident in their treatment of players?

Ok - explain to me how those arguments aren't any good please.

 

[insanephoton]

Ilo mate, you are fighting a losing battle. Remember Rambo read 'BETWEEN THE LINES' and interpreted Zac's statement to align with his dislike of anything FD related. If Zac had stated that the carriers were delayed but would be coming in the first half of 2019 as free content, Rambo would be complaining that as a highly valued and oh so important LEP owner that introducing carriers as part of a free update was a slap in the fact to all LEP owners. If Zac has stated that the carriers would be including in the next paid extension then Rambo would be complaining that why do we have to pay for them.

What I find hilariously funny is that we know NOTHING about the way carriers will work in the game, who can own them, how they operate, what they are capable of doing. Yet we have people like Rambo demanding them based on their own wild interpretation on what they think the carriers will be and what the carriers can do.

Rest assured, when the carriers are released, Rambo will be at the forefront telling us how FD screwed up yet again because what is delivered doesn't fit into he personal paradigm he had envisaged.

I kind of got the impression that even FD aren't entirely sure. It's almost as if all the forum feedback gave them pause for thought.

 

[babelfisch]

My argument being that I was looking forward to carriers and am dissapointed they haven't arrived? Also that FDev said carriers were coming and told us late on that they weren't which makes me even less confident in their treatment of players?

Ok - explain to me how those arguments aren't any good please.

I think being disappointed about the lack of carriers in 3.3 is perfectly fine. You called yourself their client who invested money into Fleet Carriers though, which is utter nonsense in my opinion.

 

[M00ka]

I kind of got the impression that even FD aren't entirely sure. It's almost as if all the forum feedback gave them pause for thought.

You may well be correct in your assumption. When the carrier was first mentioned by FD, all that was said is they can be purchased by a squadron and they will have basic rearm/repair/refuel capabilities and players could dock with it. THAT IS ALL THEY SAID.

Yet within minutes of that being announced, the forums erupted with players telling each other how they will rule the galaxy in theirs, or why can't an individual purchase one, if they are destructible or not, how they are flyable or not, are they just like the current mega ships that FD move on the tick or are they just a bigger Cutter/Corvette that one player can zoom around in. One can say the speculation ran wild and ran deep. FD probably thought (and I think correctly so) that they have to sit down and lock in everything about the carriers before they tell us otherwise whatever they do it seems half the community will be upset.