C&P...Does it work?

Works for me, but there again, it always worked for me.

I restrict my bad boy actvitities to anarchies, which makes sense.

I do agree the risk/reward balance is out of whack for many things, but i'm kind of meh on that, i have more than enough credits anyway.
 
The proof that present C&P doesn’t work stays in Eravate. There is a player’s Cutter with over 2 billion bounty on it. I don’t know how, neither why, nor when such a bounty has been acquired, but it looks out of place. This has to be a lot of Sidewinders I presume.

Then he must get regularly driven out by ATF and his accumulated bounty and rebuy increase should be huge, possibly more than he can afford. Go attack him you only need to survive for a minute before ATF turn up if he's been noob splatting, you should easily be able to stay out of his firing arc in anything nippy. You know his ship his location and his weakness the advantage is yours.

PM me his CMDR name I'm looking for some in game laughs while I wait for B4.

Personally I don’t care how other people are playing the game, but I do care about the game, the perception of the game. If one player can survive constantly killing newbies in starting systems, this player either is kicking out of the game the new players or pushing them to solo permanently. The question bothering me is: does this player’s action benefit the game and if not, where are the FD?

Get out of the starter system (in open) has been good advice for noobs since day one. I doubt it has a serious negative effect on open or the game itself.

Long time ago I’ve been playing L2 and I had a lot of PvP in this game, but C&P system was designed in such a way, that I was able to leave my character in the middle of nowhere and go AFK without fear I could been killed for no reason. End of story. Do you know from where comes the difference? L2 was a subscription game and game developers were interested in people to play their game, while FD apparently doesn’t give a sh… if the player are playing their game or not since four years after release the newbies are killed for fun.

I don't see how a subscription would change peoples PVP preferences or stop them being exploded whilst AFK.
 
The proof that present C&P doesn’t work stays in Eravate. There is a player’s Cutter with over 2 billion bounty on it. I don’t know how, neither why, nor when such a bounty has been acquired, but it looks out of place. This has to be a lot of Sidewinders I presume.
Since at notoriety 10 you get the difference in rebuys plus an engineering modifier added to your bounty for killing something smaller than you, and assuming it's an engineered A-rated Cutter, that's probably fewer than 40 actual Sidewinders. Way fewer, if they've also been killing people trying to take them out, or the police that show up to protect the Sidewinders, etc.

Personally I don’t care how other people are playing the game, but I do care about the game, the perception of the game. If one player can survive constantly killing newbies in starting systems, this player either is kicking out of the game the new players or pushing them to solo permanently.
The thing is, sure, they've killed maybe 40 Sidewinders. But each Sidewinder pilot has probably only died once to them. And once to failing to dock in time. And once to a Novice NPC Adder. And once for shooting the station to "see what would happen". The game has a steep learning curve and you'll die a lot to all sorts of things when you're just starting out. Whether you learn "there are ships too large for a Freewinder to take on" versus a player or an NPC doesn't really matter. It's actually *better* in some respects to learn that one versus a high-notoriety player, since you get a big discount on your rebuy for that, whereas you pay the full cost for dying to NPCs.

I got killed in my Sidewinder not long after starting, by a player (having evaded a bunch of NPC interdictions). I didn't leave Open, I didn't quit the game ... I just paid the 300 credit rebuy (I'd upgraded the FSD to D-rated, go me!) and jumped to system B rather than system A on the next jump ... and never saw them again. All my deaths to players since have been in my PvP-fit ship in a fight I chose to have.

Players reactions to being shot by another player (or dying to any of the other "new player" deaths) will vary, of course. I'm sure lots of people do get killed by a player and ragequit. I'm sure lots of people get killed by an NPC and ragequit, because they're used to games where the learning curve stays behind the player. But the name of the game is Elite 4 (or something like that) - go download any of the previous games in the series, and you will die a lot to NPCs. (Especially FFE - the other two you can find a safe trading route near to - but not in - the start system with a bit of trial and error, but FFE you have to learn to fight and will still die repeatedly just trying to make your first trading trip)

The question bothering me is: does this player’s action benefit the game and if not, where are the FD?
The thing is, you can't view that action solely in isolation when it comes to prevention. Does them shooting Sidewinders benefit the game? Probably not, though I doubt it's a noticeable problem either. Does the ability to commit crimes benefit the game? Yes. Does the ability to shoot at Clean players benefit the game? Yes. Would a compulsory enforcement of "no instancing with massively different ships" benefit the game? No - there's Solo or PG for people who want that, but I'd be really annoyed, since I normally fly a Cobra, not to be able to see players in bigger ships just because someone had decided that <0.1% of them potentially shooting at me was too bad to handle.
 
When people ask if C&P works I just show them this...

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This is the krait phantom btw, or this
[video=youtube_share;PyhsJqxszSw]https://youtu.be/PyhsJqxszSw[/video]
 
Hm, would be interesting to find out if C&P works in ELITE.

Ever since release, we don't have a C&P System. Never had one.

Now the fake pseudo-C&P Systems we've seen come and go...
- never made any sense, none of them
- never affected Career Criminals or Gankers the slightest
- only ever affected Clean Players that cared about staying clean
....

Clean players staying clean...Yes, that is so true including me! Here I am limiting my game play based on my own decision how to play it. Maybe I should outfit a combat Chieftain or Fer de Lance, then get seriously into crime ignoring bounties and notoriety. Probably lose a lot until I gain experience. But once I learn the criminal game having millions in bounties probably won't really matter. I'll also know a lot more about how C&P works or doesn't work.

Thanks to all per a great discussion on C&P. I learning a lot. Hope others are as well!
 
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The proof that present C&P doesn’t work stays in Eravate. There is a player’s Cutter with over 2 billion bounty on it. I don’t know how, neither why, nor when such a bounty has been acquired, but it looks out of place. This has to be a lot of Sidewinders I presume.

If it’s the one I’m thinking of they didn’t kill many players. Wasted NPCs to get notoriety 10 and then killed a few small but not new players. They did it for their own fun and to provide an exciting target for the system locals.

When some Federals went after them me and a couple friends winged up to defend them (rebel Imperials stick together). Had a real blast. Met up with some new players too and had a laugh. No seal clubbing was had.

Anyway, point is not all is what it seems with this stuff.

For me, C and P has changed my behavior. I’ve never grinded hard for credits so my bank balance is not extravagant. I’m picky about murder sprees and pay off the few I’ve gone on since the new C and P dropped. It’s very cool, in my opinion.
 
A small tweak to C&P

1. Global filter in Galmap to track criminals with notoriety (user can change the notoriety to narrow the results)
  • I would expect the map to be cluttered with notoriety 1s but few notoriety 10s. How cool it would be to see a bounty hunter screen with: criminal/notoriety/bounty/current location/# of bounty hunters currently on the hunt for this CMDR
  • when you select a criminal to track, it acts just like a wing beacon.
2. Notoriety>1 locks out solo/private modes
 
1. Global filter in Galmap to track criminals with notoriety (user can change the notoriety to narrow the results)
  • I would expect the map to be cluttered with notoriety 1s but few notoriety 10s. How cool it would be to see a bounty hunter screen with: criminal/notoriety/bounty/current location/# of bounty hunters currently on the hunt for this CMDR
  • when you select a criminal to track, it acts just like a wing beacon.
2. Notoriety>1 locks out solo/private modes

The problem with in game search tools is always the edge case crazies who get overly upset about the video game. They could never be trusted with anything like this, so the rest of us lose out.
 
The problem with in game search tools is always the edge case crazies who get overly upset about the video game. They could never be trusted with anything like this, so the rest of us lose out.

Game design based on edge cases?
 
1. Global filter in Galmap to track criminals with notoriety (user can change the notoriety to narrow the results)
  • I would expect the map to be cluttered with notoriety 1s but few notoriety 10s. How cool it would be to see a bounty hunter screen with: criminal/notoriety/bounty/current location/# of bounty hunters currently on the hunt for this CMDR
  • when you select a criminal to track, it acts just like a wing beacon.
2. Notoriety>1 locks out solo/private modes

It would be fair to track players if they are scanned by passing ships or dock somewhere outside an anarchy. That way, if you move about without being seen / scanned and operate from lawless areas you can hide / stealth it.
 
Basic scans from Commanders updating bounty boards would be nice. Can’t really witch hunt and it leaves some challenge for the hunter.

One of my biggest issues is so many ideas to enhance tracking of criminals are really just ‘I win’ buttons. In a lot of ways, ‘good guys’ can be just as lazy and predictable as criminals.
 
Game design based on avoiding catering to edge cases, or in other words the majority.

They tried player locating tools in EVE and had to ditch them due to stalkers and suchlike IIRC.

The point of this tool is for stalking. That's the purpose. Some of us want to stalk criminals with high notoriety.

You all forget the biggest issue... Solo/PG, sit in a low wake, sit in station...

2. Notoriety>1 locks out solo/private modes
 
Beside of comments *how brave and experienced I am* answering which is a waste of time, I could make few remarks:

1. C&P allowing end game equipped players to kill for no reason newbies in starting system without consequences for a long period of time is nonsense. LOL, learning them about dangers in ED while they are figuring out how the hell to put landing gear down definitely is the best lesion at the beginning of your pilot career.

2. How dangerous ED in PvE aspect is, was proved by my signature two years ago. ED is the most risk free game I’ve ever played.

3. To compare PvE risks with PvP ones is simply stupid. The psychological reaction is completely different. If you are killed in videogame by real person is not a risk of the profession, it is personal, cos you were killed by person, not by the game.

4. Losing two new players due to one old player actions is pure loss of money for FD, that’s why C&P has to be designed in such a way, that the only danger for new players, except PvE encounters, must be other new players only. Let’s the kids to fight each other in kindergarten: this is healthy, but high school kids must play with other high school kids.

5. In order to make any kind of C&P system to work, the punishment of the *criminal* must exceed the loss of the *victim*. The bounty for a Cutter killed an unarmed T-9 in high security system is definitely lower than rebuy and cargo of T-9. No C&P will ever work until this is opposite.

6. Do we need an adequate C&P system in ED? I don’t care. If FD doesn’t care, why should I? I’m participating in this thread just to practice my written English.
 
They've been mostly gone oddly enough since C&P v2.

I hope this helps with your understanding.

Oh, we're still around. But now that Star Citizen is finally beginning to shape up, we have better things to do.

ED really isn't a very good PvP game anyway. Amirite?
 
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