Why doesn't Frontier invest in dedicated servers?

[[VR] Mad Mike]

So Elite Dangerous is a multiplayer game or a single player?

it is an optionally multiplayer game and if you say it isnt then you are being totally dishonest...... fifa is a multiplayer game and that is usually only 2 players together.

is it an MMO? well it is in the technical sense, and the BGS is in the literal sense... the day to day gameplay is debatable. but David Braben himself said years ago that he did not see Elite Dangerous as an MMO in the same way that most people view an mmo.

but in a world where WarThunder is marketed as an MMO then of course FD had to push Elite as one as well!,.

 

[jasonbirder]

I can to this date not comprehend why someone who doesn't play with others is allowed to manipulate the world for everyone else

That's simply because you don't understand the structure of Elite...EVERYBODY plays with others...choosing solo merely puts you in an Instance of One in a Universe influenced by yourself and ALL the other Elite Players...the influence of a Player in Solo is equal and equivalent to the influence of a player in Private Group whose influence is identical to a player in Open...In the same way a PC players universe is influenced by XBox Players whose Universe is affected by PS4 players...
Everybody interacts with everybody else...

 

[Ian Skippy]

it is an optionally multiplayer game and if you say it isnt then you are being totally dishonest...... fifa is a multiplayer game and that is usually only 2 players together.

Both PES and FIFA support 'individual control multiplayer', so 11 vs 11. It is p2p, so you can probably guess how well it runs usually.

 

[magnaram]

You can play both multiplayer and single player. Just because you dont get the kind of multiplayer you want doesn't make it single player. That is rather childish, with all due respect.

I know you can do both, when a game doesn't decide if it's one thing or another ends up without fitting into either.

This has been brought up over and over again and the replies are always the same:

They'd have to rent servers everywhere around the globe to keep latency manageable for people as combat is fast paced and relies on speedy and precise results. E with a ping of over 150 would be unbearable. As result from requiring so many servers in so many regions they'd incur high running costs that are not being offset by current monetization schemes. If the game had extensive revenue from contious cash-shop sales, tons of minor annual DLCs or a subscription model it would seem far more viable to keep up a vast international server infrastructure.
On top people who are not from the same geolocation wouldn't be able to see one another as they'd be on different servers, essentially making the result similar to a peer2peer environment again, not gaining any favorable result.

What I always found more worrying by design is the interconnect between Solo and Open through shared effect on the BGS and market. I can to this date not comprehend why someone who doesn't play with others is allowed to manipulate the world for everyone else without them being able to see it or intervene until it's too late.

I think the same as you, I'm also worried about the BGS in different modes

 

[bladerunner900]

​So Elite Dangerous is a multiplayer game or a single player?

Multiplayer, with the possibility of playing as single player. Which, from my perspective as a mostly singe player person, is why we can never have nice things.

 

[moorison]

There are many tricks MMOs use to keep the time to synchronise everyone low, one is to have regional servers, which would make interactions impossible in a different way, another is that most interactions are designed to take some time (with elaborate animations) so delays are not as noticable.

There is not much players or Frontier can do regarding what happens to the data on its way.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

. I can to this date not comprehend why someone who doesn't play with others is allowed to manipulate the world for everyone else without them being able to see it or intervene until it's too late.

That is ok.... dont beat yourself up over it..... I cant comprehend loads of things, Theoretical Particle physics I gave up on many years ago, i will just leave it to the experts.

but all you need to know is there are very good reasons why the groups exist and also why everyone is allowed to make their mark on the game, which were detailed during the design state.... I suggest you leave it at that and enjoy the game. Anything you have to say on the matter has already been debated many times, there are probably a good few 10,000 or so posts in threads regarding this.

Dont get me wrong however.....You are free to not like it as well..... i loath Macaroni Cheese, it is foul stuff, as is cauliflower cheese.

loads of people love the stuff however so i am not going to try to educate them even though they are clearly mental

 

[moorison]

Multiplayer, with the possibility of playing as single player. Which, from my perspective as a mostly singe player person, is why we can never have nice things.

Massively singleplayer, with the option for decent multiplayer (numbers-wise).

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Both PES and FIFA support 'individual control multiplayer', so 11 vs 11. It is p2p, so you can probably guess how well it runs usually.

that is why i said "usually".

i bet (with no way to prove either way) 90%+ multiplayer games of fifa or pes (I bet even 99% if including local MP games) are played 1 vs 1.... and that still qualifies as multiplayer.

(I think we are ultimately in agreement on this to be honest)

 

[Rat Catcher]

I think the same as you, I'm also worried about the BGS in different modes

Just visualise it as the ultimate communist galaxy where every individual is able to contribute to the BGS without any kind of bias as to how they operate. Perhaps you are about to suggest that BGS should be Open only?

 

[Old Duck]

I think the same as you, I'm also worried about the BGS in different modes

I'm pretty sure the "Solo players are taking over the BGS" conspiracy theory is a myth, with the possible exception of bots. Now the "PS4 players are taking over the BGS" theory has some merit, since we have at least one platform-specific player faction that you can't touch via traditional PvP means on your PC or XBox

 

[babelfisch]

What I always found more worrying by design is the interconnect between Solo and Open through shared effect on the BGS and market. I can to this date not comprehend why someone who doesn't play with others is allowed to manipulate the world for everyone else without them being able to see it or intervene until it's too late.

That's because you bought the wrong game. I could just as well ask why people in Open are allowed to attack each other. But I don't, because that's the game I bought.

 

[Ian Skippy]

I know you can do both, when a game doesn't decide if it's one thing or another ends up without fitting into either.

Err, what? The overwhelming majority of games do both since a decade or so... Cant you just accept you aint getting what you want and deal with that?

 

[Rat Catcher]

I'm pretty sure the "Solo players are taking over the BGS" conspiracy theory is a myth, with the possible exception of bots. Now the "PS4 players are taking over the BGS" theory has some merit, since we have at least one platform-specific player faction that you can't touch via traditional PvP means on your PC or XBox

Brilliant, Old duck! +1

(screams for cross-platform integration!)

 

[bladerunner900]

Massively singleplayer, with the option for decent multiplayer (numbers-wise).

Maybe. But in my opinion, the fact that it has multiplayer aspects is holding back the development of the single player style of play. Like multiple saves for instance, for developing different characters with diverse careers. And worst of all no user MODs.

Again, this is my opinion and the only one that matters to me. YMMV

 

[Ian Skippy]

Maybe. But in my opinion, the fact that it has multiplayer aspects is holding back the development of the single player style of play. Like multiple saves for instance, for developing different characters with diverse careers. And worst of all no user MODs.

Again, this is my opinion and the only one that matters to me. YMMV

With the obvious counter-point being that solo-mode is holding the multiplayer aspects back, and to people who feel that that is the only opinion that matters. Hence the balancing act from FD, resulting in a game enjoyed by people who play MP only, SP only and people who mix & match.

 

[Majic-12]

​So Elite Dangerous is a multiplayer game or a single player?

Elite: Dangerous is multisingual.

 

[dognosh]

I think it's a general thought that when we hang out with your friends it takes too long to see each other. Hence my question, why not invest in dedicated servers that support the p2p system more efficiently?


In the last pre-launch trailer they showed us ships flying together, making us believe that we are going to be able to fly. Is there a real solution or is it just another little lie by Frontier?

ED is an MO (multiplayer online game) not an MMO(Massively multiplayer online game) and should be judged as such.
Does MO work ? I have played with many in the same instance and other times had huge difficulty to get in to an instance of only half a dozen(DW1, distant worlds 1).
Will the problem go away with dedicated servers ? no, P2P in my opinion is terrible, as it relies on us to be connected to each other, not a central server.
If FD could/wanted to afford their own servers and change from P2P to one shard galaxy(like Eve Online), can they ? I reckon a total rewrite of the underlying networking code would be in order(others can chime in and correct me if they wish )

This is the best we will get for a "one time fee" game, unless you want monthly sub like Eve?

 

[Factabulous]

Maybe. But in my opinion, the fact that it has multiplayer aspects is holding back the development of the single player style of play. Like multiple saves for instance, for developing different characters with diverse careers.

Hmm, I find different careers just equals different ships - which we have. Even better the criminality is with the ship, so you can have a criminal and a clean life in different ships if you want. I constantly flip between careers as a bounty hunter / trader / explorer / scientist / salvager - kinda like how all the careers can help me make progress on my overall char, but as you say, YMMV. You can even flip Holo-me's if you want. Or I guess you can buy alt-accounts - pretty cheap when the sales are on.

The only thing we're missing is a SAVE button*, but after watching OAs X4 streams I can't say I miss it

* hmm, actually there is a SAVE button in the Holo-me, but that's different

 

[bladerunner900]

With the obvious counter-point being that solo-mode is holding the multiplayer aspects back, and to people who feel that that is the only opinion that matters. Hence the balancing act from FD, resulting in a game enjoyed by people who play MP only, SP only and people who mix & match.

I beg to differ. There have been many compromises to Solo due to the Multiplayer aspect. No wings, No crew to name but two, also, the impending Open Only PP.

But we are not going to agree so I will leave it at that. Our styles differ, so never the twain will meet. Fortunately for me (and others probably) there is now X4.