"What the People Want"

[Dirtmuncher]

Star Citizen definitely has a speed limit, and it has its own fly by wire system, it's simply different. If you prefer one over the other you are absolutely entitled to that.

Most of what you wrote though was a rather bizarre attempt to generalise your own sentiment into a broader message. Bear in mind SC had made tens of millions before anyone had flown it at all. It's not that the masses chose SC over ED for its flight model, if anything their style of presentation has been far more significant in attracting crowd funding

Indeed ED was criticised for being very quiet on the publicity front for a very long time, and Braben et al. still don't go in for huge public presentations on the whole, they've mostly done smaller press presentations of existing features (whereas SC has often previewed future material and spent more time on promises than existing gameplay, if you'll excuse that way of phrasing it.)

In practice the gaming media has raved about ED, and there has been a slow ramp up of attention over the last six months or so. I expect the game will, in the end, sell itself on its results.

In my opinion the oculus rift will sell a lot of units for David Braben. It is the gaming experience on the rift ATM. Word of mouth will sell this game instead of big billboards.
As the biggest competitor sc is still years away from release ed will be the go to space sim for a while. Hopefully it will do for space sims what wow did for mmorpgs.

 

[Viajero]

ED's crowd funding pulled in, what, 3 mil? Well, Star Citizen is at 52 mil and counting. I took an odd sort of pride in that once, when I thought for sure Braben would do better than Roberts.

Others have commented already about the flight model and there are many threads about it in this forum (by the way SC has top speeds limits among other limitations). Both games have "newtonian" physics implemented. The main difference in terms of bottom line piloting effects with SC is that SC models has practically no limitation to rotation rates with practically no downside or cost to pay for it, which imho makes for a very boring dogfight experience.

If you want to hear it directly from ED developers go here: http://forums.frontier.co.uk/showpost.php?p=696031&postcount=87

Regarding the budget it seems you also have the common misconception that FDEV budget is limited to just the kickstarter funds, which is incorrect.

FDEV performed an IPO 2 years ago, plus it also has a revolving credit facility with certain banks. My own very rough estimate of how much funds FDEV may have available for ED before release goes like so:

Here some info on the FDEC´s IPO which contains figures on both new share and financing amounts

http://www.frontier.co.uk/docs/files/Frontier_Developments-Year_end_results-14_November_2013.pdf

That is roughly around 6.7 £ MM IPO related. Then 3 MM via revolving credit with Banks. Plus the kick starter cash. And then all backer cash that came after the kickstarter finished. Now not all the IPO and credit funds will go to Elite, but I guess one can safely assume most of them will. Someone with more knowledge feel free to correct me. This is just at a quick glance.

If you add those numbers up, i.e. 6.7 GBP MM, 3 GBP MM, kickstarter etc and then make a guess at how much cash came after kick starter and then you add some theoretical costs of having an infrastructure already up and running (Cobra engine and hired manpower / tools), assume also some funds that FDEV may have had earmarked for this pre-kickstarter, and then convert to USD, then my own wild estimate is that FD can(tm) have up to around 20-25 MM USD as a budget for the release of the game. Some of it may also actually go to finance the first expansions (First Person and planet landings) I d presume.

 

[Toumal]

Another opinion based on what other people heard being said and such. What purpose does this serve? OP has obviously made up his mind and is now looking to have that confirmed by means of incorrect information.

"They say it's more realistic so i shall like it more"... and no speed limits in SC? Oh please. Have you played AC?

 

[FoxTwo]

In the old days when Elite was released in 1984, "what people wanted" in a game was 3 lives and numerous "levels".

Elite wasn't "what people wanted" back then, and I think it'll be the same now.

I bet Elite Dangerous will be blazing its own path just like it did back in 1984.

Just sayin'. ED won't fail because it's not "what people want". People generally don't know what they want until it's been given to them, then this will be the new thing that people want.

 

[Adept]

Now, though, I'm not so sure. I've been reading about Star Citizen, and I've discovered that THEY are going with realistic physics. Pure newtonian; no speed limits, act like a REAL spaceship would act.

Nothing like it. The ships are slow with very little feeling of speed. The are also effectively weightless for now, which I suspect you know full well.

This whole thing reads like a flame bait thread

 

[Viajero]

In the old days when Elite was released in 1984, "what people wanted" in a game was 3 lives and numerous "levels".

Elite wasn't "what people wanted" back then, and I think it'll be the same now.

I bet Elite Dangerous will be blazing its own path just like it did back in 1984.

Just sayin'. ED won't fail because it's not "what people want". People generally don't know what they want until it's been given to them, then this will be the new thing that people want.

Amen to that brother, Steve Jobs dixit actually. And a point which is also a key difference with SC where even some key project management aspects are also put to vote to the community...

FDEV seems to have a very very clear idea of what they want. Star Citizen is leaving the 500K community to have too much of a say in certain things imho which denotes a bit of a lack of management vision and direction.

 

[Frank]

This game was never about "What the People Want". Braben told us what he wanted and invited us along on the journey.

 

[Vandaahl]

THEY are going with realistic physics. Pure newtonian; no speed limits...

This made me chuckle a bit. There is nothing real about no speed limit.

Please, think about it. If you are floating around in space, just by yourself, no space ship or anything... Where do you push against to make yourself move into one direction? What is going to give reaction to your action? Nothing, there is nothing. So how is a rocket engine doing this? Its pushing against its own exhaust gasses. It can do this until there is a balance between the speed of the ship and the speed of the exhaust gasses. If there is a balance, the engine has nothing to push against, hench you stop accelerating.

Just like on Earth. If you are not able to move your feet faster than the earth is moving underneath it, you stop accelerating.

I'd say, stick with Braben

 

[QuantumTron]

This made me chuckle a bit. There is nothing real about no speed limit.

Please, think about it. If you are floating around in space, just by yourself, no space ship or anything... Where do you push against to make yourself move into one direction? What is going to give reaction to your action? Nothing, there is nothing. So how is a rocket engine doing this? Its pushing against its own exhaust gasses. It can do this until there is a balance between the speed of the ship and the speed of the exhaust gasses. If there is a balance, the engine has nothing to push against, hench you stop accelerating.

Just like on Earth. If you are not able to move your feet faster than the earth is moving underneath it, you stop accelerating.

I'd say, stick with Braben

Actually, your description is completely wrong

Consider a small space probe - make it very very simple, all it has is a fuel tank, one rocket motor and enough control circuitry so you can send a signal and it will fire the motor.

The motor can supply 100 Newtons/second of thrust and is either on or off.

When the motor is firing, it'll supply the space probe with 100N/s, and the speed of the vehicle will increase, and keep increasing until the motor is commanded to switch off.

There is NO maximum speed of the space probe - well, there is insofar as getting closer to the speed of light in a vacuum. As long as there is fuel and the motor can fire up, every time you command the motor to fire, it will supply 100N/s of thrust to the vehicle, and the vehicle will accellerate. Very basic physics.

rgds

 

[Aleksej]

There is no need to start ED vs SC discussion yet again. If you want to discuss SC and your first post suggests that you are going that way then you can do this in SC thread.

Both games feature speed limit for exactly the same reason - without it the only possible combat is BVR combat at the distances of hundreds-thousands-tens of thousands of kilometers, you launch a missile and get a message that your enemy is destroyed or you suddenly get a message that you were destroyed. Would this be interesting? I doubt.

Neither of 2 games feature realistic flight models - get over it. The only important thing is the fun gameplay. As long as it is fun to play the game - how much realism is there - does not matter.

We need - endless space, fun combat and freedom.

ED is definitely going that way.

 

[Tiggo]

I remember reading somewhere that the design team thought that their gamers wanted this whole "flight assist, speed limit, atmospheric physics" model for their combat.

actually its vice versa David and his Team do the game THEY want to play.

 

[xyphic]

OP, you have it the wrong way around. Frontier and DB aren't making the game that they think their audience want. They're making the game that they want and having faith that if they like it then so will their audience.

CIG and CR are also making the game that they want, but are a little less intransigent on its implementation, sometimes to the degree where they won't rule out any change to the game if the masses demand it.

To be honest, I prefer DB's way. His vision won't be compromised by the vocal minority on the forums. He'll live or die by that, but at least the game won't be a watered-down version of what he set out to make.

 

[Herik]

Where was star citizen when I was a wee lad. No thankya, i'll be backing team Elite all the way. What's the point in having two space sims the same anyways?

I backed the sim that gave me countless happy memories growing up. Braben built the sim he himself wanted to play and i'm happy to play in his back yard any day

This!...All other excellent comments aside.

My dream of a space game in a computer has always been DB's...

 

[QuantumTron]

There is no need to start ED vs SC discussion yet again. If you want to discuss SC and your first post suggests that you are going that way then you can do this in SC thread.

Both games feature speed limit for exactly the same reason - without it the only possible combat is BVR combat at the distances of hundreds-thousands-tens of thousands of kilometers, you launch a missile and get a message that your enemy is destroyed or you suddenly get a message that you were destroyed. Would this be interesting? I doubt.

Neither of 2 games feature realistic flight models - get over it. The only important thing is the fun gameplay. As long as it is fun to play the game - how much realism is there - does not matter.

We need - endless space, fun combat and freedom.

ED is definitely going that way.

As a reader of hard science fiction novels I find the concept of combat you described above VERY interesting - just sayin'

I do realise, however, that I'm in the minority here, also that for the purposes of a mere computer game, it probably is necessary to rewrite the laws of physics in order to satisfy the emotional needs of the average gamer who wants to participate in close-quarter aerial-battles-in-space. (omg I'm so Elitist! ).

I love Elite and also already love the ED Betas so I shall be playing this game and ignoring the nerfed flight model as such - it's only a game after all; if I feel the need to control a space vehicle and have a battle of wits against geniune Newtonian physics I'll just have to look for that somewhere else from time to time. Perhaps even fire up Frontier: Elite II, hmm, there's an idea

 

[Aleksej]

OP, you have it the wrong way around. Frontier and DB aren't making the game that they think their audience want. They're making the game that they want and having faith that if they like it then so will their audience.

CIG and CR are also making the game that they want, but are a little less intransigent on its implementation, sometimes to the degree where they won't rule out any change to the game if the masses demand it.

To be honest, I prefer DB's way. His vision won't be compromised by the vocal minority on the forums. He'll live or die by that, but at least the game won't be a watered-down version of what he set out to make.

Actually it is slightly different. FD is making the game according to their vision while CIG is developing the game that majority wants.

 

[Joe Spivey]

Actually it is slightly different. FD is making the game according to their vision while CIG is developing the game that majority wants.

Which likely means that CIG will be forever patching, fixing, nerfing and buffing, for players are a fickle bunch at best. FD is a much more simple philosophy. "Hey! We're making this game, wanna play?"

 

[Oddball]

Well said xyphic.

I'd like to add a comment if I may......

Some people just don't get it. The current state of the game is classed as 'still in development'. There is still a lot to do and that means changing things if they don't feel right or adding things to improve the game. I appreciate that some people have invested in the game that are probably too young to remember the original Elite series and they would prefer a 'shoot em up' like SC, but Elite is not SC.

This game is coming along nicely and is sticking to its roots as it should. Its going to be a fantastic game that's for sure and I would advise people just to be a bit patient.

Have a little faith people, have a little faith.....

woof woof! - That's my other dog impression.

 

[Vandaahl]

Actually, your description is completely wrong

Consider a small space probe - make it very very simple, all it has is a fuel tank, one rocket motor and enough control circuitry so you can send a signal and it will fire the motor.

The motor can supply 100 Newtons/second of thrust and is either on or off.

When the motor is firing, it'll supply the space probe with 100N/s, and the speed of the vehicle will increase, and keep increasing until the motor is commanded to switch off.

There is NO maximum speed of the space probe - well, there is insofar as getting closer to the speed of light in a vacuum. As long as there is fuel and the motor can fire up, every time you command the motor to fire, it will supply 100N/s of thrust to the vehicle, and the vehicle will accellerate. Very basic physics.

rgds

Regardless of how simple the object is, you are saying, attach a rocket to an object and it will accelerate forever until it has gained infinite mass. Right?

 

[Aleksej]

Which likely means that CIG will be forever patching, fixing, nerfing and buffing, for players are a fickle bunch at best. FD is a much more simple philosophy. "Hey! We're making this game, wanna play?"

There will always be people who do not like one game and like the other one and vice versa. A unanimous decision regarding what is better can never exist in this particular case.

 

[QuantumTron]

Regardless of how simple the object is, you are saying, attach a rocket to an object and it will accelerate forever until it has gained infinite mass. Right?

It's not quite as simple as that, but technically, yes.

As much as I dislike using Wikipedia as a reference, this article is a good primer on the subject : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acceleration

Have a search on the internet for the topic - it can get quite hoary

EDIT: and we haven't even touched on the subject of frame-of-reference and relativity

rgds.