Hey FDEV, What percentage of players belong to a PMF?
- Thread starter Chaparral
- Start date
How would FDev even know? Game has no concept of a player 'belonging' to a PMF.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Given that we cannot pledge to a Faction, how are Frontier meant to determine how many players belong to a PMF?
.... and being allied to one does not count - as a CMDR can be allied with many Factions.
.... and being allied to one does not count - as a CMDR can be allied with many Factions.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
It could be that they are not advertising their affiliation publicly.
My question is about pmf membership. FDEV has established clearish guidelines on the creation of a pmf, that REQUIRES a list of players declaring membership at the formation of the PMF. FDEV must have a list of players on those initial rosters, so there is some data about player PMF membership.
More to the point, I don't see another way to determine the number of players actively supporting a PMF and working intentionally on the BGS.
Best way to work out how many ppl are working each PMF is to go to each and ask them - they will have an idea. Though the larger ones don't even know that, I know mine just says 'go X do Y', and see what happens. Visiting all the PMF discords should keep you busy - probably fill at least 2.8% of yr spare time 
Edit: Your idea of looking at initial join membership is .... lacking in accuracy
Edit: Your idea of looking at initial join membership is .... lacking in accuracy
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
How many of those players claimed (probably in good faith) to be in a player group in support of a Faction application are expected to still be involved? Given that there are anecdotal reports of abandoned PMFs....
It's entirely possible that there is no simple way to definitely differentiate between players working the BGS for profit and players working the BGS for a Faction (unless they take missions and select influence as the reward, of course).
With the introduction of Squadrons it may be simplified somewhat - if the players actually bother to engage in BGS activities for the Faction affiliated with their Squadron (if any).
It's about 70/30 one way or the other.
Hmm, I'd assumed something like that - so if we apply OP's criteria then number of CMDRs supporting PMF = 10 * number PMF, so around 16950 CMDRs. Now you just need a count of all the CMDRs in game - good luck with that!
This is fantastic information. The total number of pmfs x the base number of members to start a pmf would give an absolute floor of players playing the BGS. At a minimum, of the entire player base, 16950 players could be working on the BGS for their pmf.
Thank you very much.
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A couple of points:
1. The minimum headcount for PMFs is a relatively recent criterion. There may be PMFs which were formed with fewer members.
2. Not all PMFs are active, or will retain the full 10 members after they've been created
However, given that some PMFs have hundreds of members it probably all balances out
These are not valid assumptions. For many and varied reasons. Including the fact that players can 'work for' any faction they like, PAFs are not exempt, nor how many player groups don't 'work' the BGS. The above assumption doesn't account for players not affiliated with player groups 'working' the BGS either.
Essentially, there is no way for FD or us to tell how many players or PAFs play the BGS. After Squadrons drop there may be a better chance to say how many players are in formal groups, but the BGS part of this will still be a mystery.
This assumes that active PMF members will bother to join a squadron, given that Discord is so much more powerful/flexible.
I find it so curious that this core game feature - playing the BGS - has no individual player accountability mechanic whatsoever.
How could botting ever be combated?
How could an individual player measure the outcomes of his or her actions with meaningful certainty?
How could pmf's track the work of faction members?
How could 5C behavior by a pmf member ever be clearly identified?
How could pmf alliances ever be validated for honesty in action?
This all seems like intentionally obscure voodoo that severely impacts the playability of the game, and the devs have no means to know if it's 5%, 25% or 90% of the player base are cogently involved in the BGS.
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Squadrons and PAFs don't necessarily have to be linked. PAFs can continue as they are without Squadrons, and Squadrons can be made that aren't affiliated with a PAF. Individuals can either join a Squadron and/or associate with a specific or not. None of this stuff is intrinsically linked.
The BGS is everything. Any mission, sale, crime, or trade affects the BGS. This won't change with the release of Squadrons. Individual accountability is recorded by the BGS, and is reflected by the BGS. Players are inconsequential, by design.
The effects of any BGS action have a counter. Neither the BGS, nor Squadrons are intended to identify or restrict botting. That is something FD have to take up.
Even now, after the 'tick', you can check the level of influence your favored faction has. Anyone can monitor the changes happening and react.
PAFs can monitor the overall effect of the groups efforts by following, and reacting to the changes in influence. This data will be even more involved after Ch 4 releases. They have even added states and reactions for Ch 4.
5c efforts can never be seen, except through changes in any given faction's influence in a system.
Validating alliances is never an obvious or easy thing, in real life or otherwise. Some stuff just has to be felt rather than have the info telegraphed to you.
All of the stuff coming increases the playability of the BGS. It may not be the open window to the inner workings of the BGS you seem to require, but the required data is available to everyone. Anyone who earns credits is affecting the BGS. Cogently depends directly on the intent of the player. If the player is just looking for the best paying jobs, does that mean that player isn't playing the BGS cogently?
I honestly don't get your issues here.
This is a design decision that many players love...and just as many hate (maybe even more than love it!). It really comes down to what is important to you, as the player.
I can answer with absolute certainty:
0%
No player "belongs" to any faction, Player-Named or otherwise.
Even Squadrons do not "belong" to any faction.
They merely support them.
0%
No player "belongs" to any faction, Player-Named or otherwise.
Even Squadrons do not "belong" to any faction.
They merely support them.