PvP Suggestions for countering jousting?

SushiCW · Dec 14, 2018

I'm at a loss for a tactic that I can effectively use against ships that generally rely on jousting with plasmas (and occasionally frags). The bottom line problem is that as long as they get close enough before firing, they're very unlikely to miss, and I can't seem to find a way to prevent them from getting to point-blank and firing.

I can't seem to find a way to turn a jousting fight into a different kind of fight, either.

It seems like I need a significant advantage in speed & agility in order to deal with jousting attackers.

But, I know there are Krait2 pilots out there who can tangle with those meta-FDLs and do fine. What tactics work? That don't require a specialized loadout?

Tiili · Dec 14, 2018

Try drag seekers/hounds and mines.

Krash · Dec 14, 2018

Ramming puts an end to it.

CMDR Cknarf · Dec 14, 2018

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Bob Lighthouse · Dec 14, 2018

FAOff and turn/boost sooner.

Otherwise boost laterally.

The Krait turns a pretty lazy arc, even compared to my FGS.
It's main strength lies in the C7 PD imo.
Have higher output.

SushiCW · Dec 14, 2018

Tiili said:
Try drag seekers/hounds and mines.

Hmm, I actually have them but haven't used them much. They don't really do anything about boosting, right?

Krash said:
Ramming puts an end to it.

Only if you've got way more HP, right? That's unlikely to be the case without me specializing my loadout.

Bob Lighthouse said:
FAOff and turn/boost sooner.

Otherwise boost laterally.

The Krait turns a pretty lazy arc, even compared to my FGS.
It's main strength lies in the C7 PD imo.
Have higher output.

Lateral boosting is what I've mainly been trying to do, it just doesn't seem to work very well.

"Have higher output" sounds like giving up on maneuvering and just trying to outdamage / out-tank them. Probably not going to be able to manage that without a very specialized loadout.

Krash · Dec 14, 2018

A Krait is not going to outmaneuver a FDL, so your stuck with changing your loadout to deal with it. IMO, Kraits are weak and make poor combat ships overall. I know some ppl love them, but to me they are death traps.

Tiili · Dec 14, 2018

SushiCW said:
Hmm, I actually have them but haven't used them much. They don't really do anything about boosting, right?

Drags don't do much if your opponent is perma boosting, yeah. But there are times when boosting is not a good idea, like when they are already cooking in the cockpit.

Ion disruption mines are very powerful tho, they are also area denial so your opponent has less space to maneuver around you.

bladebss · Dec 14, 2018

Yea mines. Since i have been fiddleing with them i have found them so handy against jousters.. infact any one who flys towards me for any legth if time lol.

I had a frags and plasma mamba fight earlier in my chieftain with 1 small cascade and one ion mine, i just stuck it in reverse as he came charging towards me and he stoped dead in his tracks, then you wrap that fly in silk! And he had no where to go walst i splatted him with plasma, seco d he moved he lost his shields and was dead in no time. Felt good.

TEBORI · Dec 16, 2018

go fa off orbit and use gimballed multicannons. if you are very very good in fa off you can do it with fixed weapons also. but this works for standard pilots too. except the attacker has double chaff

[video=youtube;mVtcD4DGUT8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVtcD4DGUT8[/video]

Bob Lighthouse · Dec 16, 2018

SushiCW said:
Lateral boosting is what I've mainly been trying to do, it just doesn't seem to work very well.

Have you tried flipping with FAoff before you cross paths, to break the joust?
You should be going sideways/backwards as you pass, then you can boost directly behind them.

I also generally pilot towards where they just were since that's the hardest place to aim to, where you just came from.
It's a boxing principle.

"Have higher output" sounds like giving up on maneuvering and just trying to outdamage / out-tank them. Probably not going to be able to manage that without a very specialized loadout.

No.
It means for you own loadout, are you leveraging that PD?
You have the largest PD in any medium ship in the Krait MkII, it's the same one as a Cutter/T10.
If you get stuck in a joust, you should see to it that you are doing as much damage as possible, in the allotted window of opportunity.
That is the main advantage you have over an FDL.
You can't out-maneuver it given equal piloting skills.
So use your advantages.

What is your weapons loadout?

AP Birdman · Dec 16, 2018

Krash said:
A Krait is not going to outmaneuver a FDL, so your stuck with changing your loadout to deal with it. IMO, Kraits are weak and make poor combat ships overall. I know some ppl love them, but to me they are death traps.

Kraits aren't that bad and they can usually dominate 1v1's in my experience because of their slim profile and ability to out ram any medium ship. I've been doing really well with the Krait phantom in 1v1's. I definitely struggle with the poor turn rate but I just have to use different tactics.

Morbad · Dec 17, 2018

AP IBirdman said:
ability to out ram any medium ship.

They have the mass and the forward speed to do a lot of damage in a collision, but it's not hard to avoid a ram attempt from a Krait.

AP Birdman · Dec 17, 2018

Morbad said:
They have the mass and the forward speed to do a lot of damage in a collision, but it's not hard to avoid a ram attempt from a Krait.

I dunno I've met a couple of pilots that are pretty darn good at it.

Crimson Kaim · Dec 17, 2018

Long range TLB+Force shell, trust me. You hit first and disrupt your target's aim at the cost of damage potential but it's amazing how a mrta Lance just fails to penetrate my FAS 200 MJ shields the entire fight hehehehehe

SushiCW · Dec 17, 2018

TEBORI said:
go fa off orbit and use gimballed multicannons. if you are very very good in fa off you can do it with fixed weapons also. but this works for standard pilots too. except the attacker has double chaff

Ignoring the weapons choices, FA off orbit is exactly what I've been trying to do to avoid plasmas without success. Ships with better boost duration / multiplier / acceleration (FDL in particular) seem to have little trouble jousting me regardless. I can't seem to get enough lateral speed / accel to reliably dodge attacks or keep attackers a reasonable distance away. Still not sure if it's a matter of wrong tactics or imperfect technique. And this is where I'm really curious, and would really like to learn nuts&bolts techniques for effectively keeping enough distance & forcing plasma misses.

Bob Lighthouse said:
Have you tried flipping with FAoff before you cross paths, to break the joust?
You should be going sideways/backwards as you pass, then you can boost directly behind them.

Interesting. I've done this in the past with smaller ships, but haven't tried it in my Krait because it seems like it would make me a ridiculously easy target if I'm pancaked right when we're going past each other.

Bob Lighthouse said:
No.
It means for you own loadout, are you leveraging that PD?
You have the largest PD in any medium ship in the Krait MkII, it's the same one as a Cutter/T10.
If you get stuck in a joust, you should see to it that you are doing as much damage as possible, in the allotted window of opportunity.
That is the main advantage you have over an FDL.
You can't out-maneuver it given equal piloting skills.
So use your advantages.

What is your weapons loadout?

I'm definitely not packing a powerful weapons loadout: Med railgun, med missiles, 2 large gimballed cannons, one large beam laser turret. Fighterbay with MC Condor. It's a pretty fun mix for not-PvP though.

I don't really expect to win any PvP encounter anyway, I'm mostly just trying to figure out dodging technique & lengthen the time I can tangle with a PvP ship into something enjoyable.

TEBORI · Dec 20, 2018

SushiCW said:
Ignoring the weapons choices, FA off orbit is exactly what I've been trying to do to avoid plasmas without success. Ships with better boost duration / multiplier / acceleration (FDL in particular) seem to have little trouble jousting me regardless. I can't seem to get enough lateral speed / accel to reliably dodge attacks or keep attackers a reasonable distance away. Still not sure if it's a matter of wrong tactics or imperfect technique. And this is where I'm really curious, and would really like to learn nuts&bolts techniques for effectively keeping enough distance & forcing plasma misses.

if you do the fa off orbit correct you should be able to keep a distance from 1km or more to the attacker. there is not very much he can do about that in case you are in a ship what can perma boost and reach a topspeed of 530 or more.