Frontier, the absence of a Universal Limpet Controller undermines your own good work

[Andovar]

Agree completely.
For those using the "easy mode" argument, it's not about making the game easy, it's about making dynamic content accessible and usable.
Unless FD's vision was that everyone is supposed to plan ahead for the specific task that they want to do, and do only that.
Stumble across anything new or different in your travels? Just skip it, because you didn't come equipped.
So instead of taking what the game throws at you, it's a matter of skipping dynamic scenarios/findings and only going around searching for what you planned to find.

The current limpet setup is akin to having to choose between guns or a scanner on your SRV. If you choose scanner and come across some skimmers, too bad, move on. Conversely, choose guns, and stumble across a cool geological find? to bad, no scan for you!

If FD doesn't want to go full-bore with a universal controller, this would be a nice compromise.

Perhaps a solution would be to merge some of the limpet types.
- collectors => stay on their own
- prospector, recon, research => merged to "analysis limpet" and acts based on what it hits
- hatchbreaker => stay on their own (or alternatively have recon here instead as "hacking limpet", or alternatively make hatchbreaking another "analysis" task)
- fuel transfer, repair, decon => merged to "support limpet" and acts based on the target state - decontamination if needed, then fuel transfer if on fumes, then repair, then fuel transfer to the main tank

 

[IndigoWyrd]

It doesn’t even need be a Universal Limpet Controller - a Modular Limpet Rack would be sufficient. Something akin to the Vehicle/Fighter hanger, with sub-slots that only accept Limpet controllers would be divine. I agree with the OP in that this does undermine a portion of the efforts to provide more and varied activities by making those activities difficult to engage in due to outfitting limitations.

And not that there isn’t reason to limit outfitting - ships have and need limitations to what they can carry, however... the Limpet controller situation has gotten out of hand.

The only other solution I can conceive would be to eliminate certain Limpet controller types and integrate their functions like the discovery scanner was integrated. The Recon limpet could be functionally integrates into the Data Link scanner. The Prospector Limpet could be absorbed into the Compstion scanner, and repair and decontamination limpets could be merged into one.

This would negate a large part of The Limpet Problem.

 

[Sunyavadin]

Alternatively make each of the different limpet controllers utility mounts, as has been suggested a few times..

 

[SpaceScania]

Yep, adding my support to the ideas in this thread. Limpet controller proliferation is a huge problem. Also does it make any sense that a 128 ton 7A limpet controller would only allow control 4 limpets? Frontier would do well to rethink their entire approach with these little limpets. I really hope we don't have to wait for a whole year for a fix for these issues.

 

[Burke]

Yes it does OP. I think they need a single module that will launch and recover drones specific to the situation dependent on that drone being in cargo. Stop fearing automation.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

I agree, we have far far too many limpet types.

 

[Wrecked]

I am looking at it way. We can't ask our ships to do it all. We as PEOPLE have to make a DECISION. We can't have an Easy mode.

On the day we play we have to make our choice. Not have a game make it for us because we are lazy to do so.

Ughhhh Jesus f’ing Christ this argument is so lame. It is not “easy mode” because you are giving players the ability to play the game in a more accessible and engaging way. Easy mode would be adding a button to your dashboard that instantly transferred 1 billion credits into your account. Or, a button that made you invincible. Or a button that insta-killed everything around you in one shot.... THAT would be easy mode!

People want to play the game, not get to something that would have been an engaging experience only to find out that need to spend 20 to 30 minutes re-outfitting their ship because of a poorly executed game mechanic.

One of the best decisions they made with 3.3 was adding the Discovery scanner as a built in module. It didn’t put the game on “easy mode”, it added more access to more content without forcing the player to jump through a bunch of worthless hoops. The limpet mechanic needs to be revisited for similar reasons.

 

[Havvk]

It'd work well for the "a bunch of collectors for materials and synth the others if it comes up" situation but I think it would be very inconvenient for miners who would need to guess before they set off what collector/prospector balance they needed.

I wonder if there might also be underlying problems with a single module having multiple fire modes. Certainly I can imagine issues with a module controlling both prospectors and collectors at once regardless of how it does it.

Perhaps a solution would be to merge some of the limpet types.
- collectors => stay on their own
- prospector, recon, research => merged to "analysis limpet" and acts based on what it hits
- hatchbreaker => stay on their own (or alternatively have recon here instead as "hacking limpet", or alternatively make hatchbreaking another "analysis" task)
- fuel transfer, repair, decon => merged to "support limpet" and acts based on the target state - decontamination if needed, then fuel transfer if on fumes, then repair, then fuel transfer to the main tank

Then we're back to four limpet types (or maybe only three) which means there's still a bit of a choice and compromise over which to take, but it doesn't require an Anaconda to take one of everything if you want.

This. Best of both worlds.

 

[TheSisko]

All that development time spent working on Moar Combat Ships should have been spent on this.

I know what I need, and it ain't the Mamba.

 

[Sterling MH]

Universal needs to be VASTLY more expensive

AT LEAST 3x the cost, probably better 4x the cost, arguably more than the cost of all the other controllers together.

It should also be bigger and heavier.

So if, pulling figures out of the aether, it were 4x the price of a "standard" controller, one class higher (so 1E becomes 2E, 1A becomes 2A) with the normal delta in weight for needing that bigger class, would THIS be acceptable?

Remember, the controller needs to be balanced to other options, so we need "reason" for someone to pinch out merely the fuel limpets for playing as a fuel rat rather than going for the bells-and-whistles approach.

This would be the MINIMUM necessary to keep it balanced.

So if you were given a universal controller one class higher and three times the mass to do the same as the current controllers, just you get to swap modes to a different controller, would ANYONE complain about its cost or drawbacks? FD likely would be put off by that. See what happens every time something is "rebalanced" in ED...


Secondly remember how many people are passed off with how many extra buttons they need to run all the new stuff. Even the NV toggle. So given that, how would you expect the reception of a button to toggle each mode of the universal controller? Remember too that you've not said how to mechanise it *to other people*, only promoted your own hypothesis for it (and everyone's ideas smell of roses to the one dealing it out, it just stinks to others).

So FD have two reasons not to want to bother with the effort.

So how about throwing each idea out and then argue about the best option until there's only one left standing, then offer that to FD with the fait accompli of "everyone who cares has complained about all the others, this one has passed the baptism of fire".

Even if it doesn't work, after that effort, nobody wanting a change can be blamed for FD not doing it, everyone then proposing the idea is blameless if it doesn't go in.

 

[Weps]

It would be good to see them say something on the subject, but there's plausible reasons why they've not done it other than not caring about it.

I really can't imagine any reason why they can't simply jump in one of the numerous threads from the past month, or pick up the question on livestream (it's not like it hasn't been asked there too) and just deliver a simple:

"We're still looking at the best way to rework this"

or

"We know what we want to do, but we're busy with the next era of Elite"

or even the generic

"Nothing to announce at the moment"

Any sort of reply would indicate that someone in the structure has at least thought about it, to have an answer prepared.

 

[Anubite]

Ughhhh Jesus f’ing Christ this argument is so lame. It is not “easy mode” because you are giving players the ability to play the game in a more accessible and engaging way. Easy mode would be adding a button to your dashboard that instantly transferred 1 billion credits into your account. Or, a button that made you invincible. Or a button that insta-killed everything around you in one shot.... THAT would be easy mode!

People want to play the game, not get to something that would have been an engaging experience only to find out that need to spend 20 to 30 minutes re-outfitting their ship because of a poorly executed game mechanic.

One of the best decisions they made with 3.3 was adding the Discovery scanner as a built in module. It didn’t put the game on “easy mode”, it added more access to more content without forcing the player to jump through a bunch of worthless hoops. The limpet mechanic needs to be revisited for similar reasons.

My first experience going out of my way to rescue NPCs from distress calls was uneventful. All the scripting/dialogue takes place only if you killed the pirates BEFORE refueling the guy, as if getting fuel & GTFOing is not priority. So I went out of my way only to be let down ASAP.

 

[Deleted member 115407]

Counterpoint.

Limpet controllers are currently a good way for one to determine the roll of a ship, i.e. "Hey, that guy has a hatchbreaker, he must be up to no good."

How does that shift if limpet controllers are suddenly universal?

(I am not saying that I disagree with the OP. I too have been in situations where I didn't have the right limpet controller to exploit an opportunity. But it would behoove us to think of all angles here...)

 

[avow555]

Lol, 8 limpet controllers.

New level of dumb ×8 fdev.

 

[Anubite]

Counterpoint.

Limpet controllers are currently a good way for one to determine the roll of a ship, i.e. "Hey, that guy has a hatchbreaker, he must be up to no good."

How does that shift if limpet controllers are suddenly universal?

(I am not saying that I disagree with the OP. I too have been in situations where I didn't have the right limpet controller to exploit an opportunity. But it would behoove us to think of all angles here...)

Let's have an analogy for why this might not matter. Engineers did this but so much worse.

"Oh hey, this ship is small with junk weapons, let's kill it."
*interdiction succeeded*
Under attack.
Shield breach attack.
Thermal attack.
Module malfunction.
Heat levels critical.
Eject eject eject.


Just use the clean/wanted tag and then check the loadout for weapons and controllers. You don't need to know if they are a fuel rat or a scrapper, but this will let you know if they are criminals. Also, you need hatch breakers to liberate hostages, so yeah, not much help alone anyways.

 

[M00ka]

Lol, 8 limpet controllers.

New level of dumb ×8 fdev.

Since each type of controller does a different function, and I can't see any situation where anyone would try to equip a ship with all 8 controllers at once, I don't see your point. It is like you complaining that there are so many different weapons available, are you now going to demand a single weapon that can do everything from a burst laser to a torpedo launcher?

Yes FD do need to do something about the controllers, but a bit of common sense is required from some here as well. So instead of just complaining, how about trying to come up with a workable solution to the problem.

 

[Deleted member 115407]

Let's have an analogy for why this might not matter. Engineers did this but so much worse.

"Oh hey, this ship is small with junk weapons, let's kill it."
*interdiction succeeded*
Under attack.
Shield breach attack.
Thermal attack.
Module malfunction.
Heat levels critical.
Eject eject eject.


Just use the clean/wanted tag and then check the loadout for weapons and controllers. You don't need to know if they are a fuel rat or a scrapper, but this will let you know if they are criminals. Also, you need hatch breakers to liberate hostages, so yeah, not much help alone anyways.

Because if I'm waiting outside of a starport for you to leave with commodities, I'm going to be doing it with a wanted tag?

Short sighted for you to be focused on newb killers.

 

[Anubite]

Focusing on one point, ignoring the other

The station would kill that guy. And if he's not wanted, don't assume; he's just plotting a route to his liberation missions.

Surprise, you can't read everyone like a book.
Surprise, ED is dangerous.

Nothing objective will be lost with a universal controller.

 

[Limoncello Lizard]

I think the idea I like best was to move limpet controllers to hardpoints

This idea is about as good as the chocolate fuelscoop.

Mining already uses far too many hardpoints, tying up more for limpet controllers is a stupid idea.

 

[jacozilla]

AT LEAST 3x the cost, probably better 4x the cost, arguably more than the cost of all the other controllers together.

It should also be bigger and heavier.

Why does software need to make it bigger and heavier?

This isn't just sarcasm - the logical answer is when the demands to run that new software require a more powerful device. But we're living in a game that doesn't need IRL logic, so let's just go with game-logic...the universe as we see in game.

By that game logic, probes that no mass and are infinite, and planetary probe controllers can be so small and massless it doesn't take a slot or any trade off in our ship.

Hence, we're back to - why does software for a universal limpet controller need to be housed in a bigger/heavier controller when clearly that's not the limiting factor by whichever logic you choose to use.