HOTAS noob - Aiming with TM Hotas X

Hey there,

I am not only new with Elite Dangerous, but also toally new with joysticks.

Before I go into the "real game" I am doing battle scenarios to get into the controls. So the last couple of days I played with keyboard. And a couple of hours of learning later (especially of the Elite mechanics of sweet spots and so on) it actually went pretty good. So that in the Scenario "Incursion" I reach the 4th wave and once even the fifth (who then killed me with a missile).

Today I got the Thrustmaster Hotas X, I've read on PC game that this is the best thing you can get without going into the hundreds of euros.

I have to say that the las joystick I used was in '95 or so when I played Elite 2. I also competely hate console controls so the total time in my life on console controllers is probably like 5 hours.

Now there are two things which I found quite cool with the HOTAS X: With the thrust it felt easier to switch between forward and backward thrust than on the keyboard because there is no "stutter" effect when switching.

And the other thing is that the Yaw came more natural when having it combined with the same "movement" as rotating the ship (with mouse you use the one hand on the mouse to turn, and the other hand on the keyboard to yaw).
But that's about it.

To me it feels much easier to set the speed precicesly with the keyboard, hitting the "sweet spots". I continously accidently touch the "front button" which is normally for selecting the target (and unselecting it).
But the biggest problems I have with the pricise aiming, for example if you are facing each other and rushing into a almost-collision. Doing the left<->right adjustment works just fine with the jaw. But adjusting the height is a nightmare as the slightest touch of the joystick rotates me so far upwards that I am past the target, then I touch the joystick into the other direction and bam, my aim went past the target again...too high, too low, too high, too low....to late.
When using mouse controls you have the possibility to be extremely precise when moving into one direction. A precision I don't see you can have with a joystick.
Also when using a mouse (not in the game, but in generall) you have the option to use a mouse acceleration. So that if you move the mouse just a tiny bit, the cursor only moves a tine bit, and if you move it fast and hard, it accelerates. So you have 1mm real movement resulting into 2mm screen space and 1 cm of real movement resulting into 10 cm screen space if you understand what I mean.
Is there something similar I can use for the joystick to be able to aim more precisely? Are there any other tips you can give me about hotas controls?

At the moment I have a hard time believing that one can achieve better results with a hotas than with mouse+keyboard.
 
So if I understand you correctly you have a trouble with pitch axis. Could you check it is assigned correctly, i.e. you have assigned pitch axis to the joystick axis and NOT pitch up/down?
 
you could dial the sensitivity down a bit. But even if not, you'll eventually get used to it, even if you will not achieve the quickness and precision of a mouse.
 
So if I understand you correctly you have a trouble with pitch axis. Could you check it is assigned correctly, i.e. you have assigned pitch axis to the joystick axis and NOT pitch up/down?

I guess my controls are correct:
http://ndnw.net/no-hp-stuff/Pitch.jpg

you could dial the sensitivity down a bit. But even if not, you'll eventually get used to it, even if you will not achieve the quickness and precision of a mouse.
So you are saying that you will always get better results with a mouse? I mean for me it's mostly about effectiveness, not immersion. So if you say that you get better results with a mouse if equally trained on both I will just stick to the mouse.

I did not find any sensivity setting though. Neither in the (windows) driver, nor in the game (only dead zones)
 
That's strange as it should not be that bad. I have used Thrustmaster T.16KM and Saitek X55 and never had such problems even with linear sensitivity.

What you have described resembles digital controls although you have assigned everything the right way.

Can you run joy.cpl and check whether you have analogue controls for the joystick there?
 
Becareful with the setting in the control options. Don't set the input more than once. I know this with experience , it's possible to set yaw, roll or pitch input twice in the control setting. Which means everytime you yaw or roll ... your ship gets 2 input of yaw or roll instead of 1 which makes the ship behave in a very unstable manner. ;)

Example in the yaw controls

There is one that if for setting the Joystick axis specific for yaw then right below the same box there are 2 other input ... yaw right and yaw left... if you set the axis already ... then leave yaw right and left blank.
 
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Well, I didn't disable flight assist but I think the "Dead Zone" did the job. I guess I missunderstand the meaning of that word. Interpreted it as "cut off value".
Now I just need to get used to it. ^^
Thanks all! :)
 
i think you need to play with S curves on the stick's pitch axis.

also i don't think mouse is better than stick or vice versa, it all comes down to HOW effective and precise you can do all 6 degrees in space, mouse has only 2 and even if they are more pecise than stick - stick has 3 axis (with twitch), so with mouse you need an extra axis somewhere else.

i didn't even try the mouse/kb and went for hotas and i never used stick in my life before, it took some time (many weeks) to get it right but now i can do all i want ;)
 
i think you need to play with S curves on the stick's pitch axis.

also i don't think mouse is better than stick or vice versa, it all comes down to HOW effective and precise you can do all 6 degrees in space, mouse has only 2 and even if they are more pecise than stick - stick has 3 axis (with twitch), so with mouse you need an extra axis somewhere else.

i didn't even try the mouse/kb and went for hotas and i never used stick in my life before, it took some time (many weeks) to get it right but now i can do all i want ;)

As far as I know there are no options to set the sensitivity curves in the HOTAS X Software. This means that it is possible to do them only by using 3rd party software.
 
Yep, there is no software at all (there wasn't even a cd in the box), it just tells you "use windows drivers".


My problem right now is that while it's much easier to tail the enemies, I am not able to hit anything often enough / time to kill anything. Could literally follow an AI ship for 30 minutes without getting it's shield down and well...and most likely death is a collision.

Somewhat feels like I should play with joystick and mouse...but I would need two right hands for that...
 
Just a little update: I got a little better in it the day before yesterday.
Yesterday I had to take a break and when I wanted to test it today...it was broken.

So....on the way back to amazon. ^^

Any suggestions for a Joystick with higher precision? To compensate for the problem I mentioned in the very beginning?
 
So if I understand you correctly you have a trouble with pitch axis. Could you check it is assigned correctly, i.e. you have assigned pitch axis to the joystick axis and NOT pitch up/down?

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If you haven't of guessed it, I am new to any kind of HOTAS as well. I mapped the controls to the X/Y instead of the actual axis. Almost blew up my ship (my invert controls were off), but so worth it. Now it doesn't feel like something is off!

Thank you again!

ps: I was wondering why it felt alot better using a mouse/keyboard, now I know why :eek:

Just a little update: I got a little better in it the day before yesterday.
Yesterday I had to take a break and when I wanted to test it today...it was broken.

So....on the way back to amazon. ^^

Any suggestions for a Joystick with higher precision? To compensate for the problem I mentioned in the very beginning?

I am using a "mid range" HOTAS, the Saitek X-55 Rhino. Now that it is set up properly, it is bloody amazing. A bit big though for my current desk (corner desk with book shelving).
 
I am using a "mid range" HOTAS, the Saitek X-55 Rhino. Now that it is set up properly, it is bloody amazing. A bit big though for my current desk (corner desk with book shelving).

That's 190-200€. I'd say you are past midrange by that. ^^

I am also wondering whether there are any good Sticks with twist function which don't automatically come with a Thrust part (thinking about replacing that by a keypad like G13 or Tartarus/Nostromo). Seems like Saitek only sells them as couples. Besides of the Cyborg thingies. Then there is the T16000M, but I don't really see many more.
 
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I have both the Hotas X and my old trusty Nostromo n52, which I plan to use to navigate the UI and galaxy map, and map a few non emergency controls that don't fit on the Hotas, as well as the radar range on the scroll wheel. The keypad and the throttle complement each other well, it's easy to find the keys on the keypad compared to a keyboard, when you use the Rift (I tried with my eyes closed). Plus the keypad will be nice for FPS gameplay when the walking in stations expansions come.
 
until they put some kind of S curve options for joysticks and pads in im staying with mouse/kb, been playing mouse n kb in fps since quake, and ive allays used joysticks for combat flight Sims (blackshark, a10, flaming cliffs,battleground europe, cliffs of dover).i find mouse is far more precise and accurate at the moment.

(Ive tested the same combat scenarios more than 10 times each with 3 different control methods, mouse kb came out on top) zowie mouse with possible 9 buttons bindable

images


taken from ww2ol S curve in-game options for every axis and works perfectly
 
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Now maybe you've solved this issue already, BUT when I first got my joystick setup it treated the axis as a button. Full on and Full off... there was no in between. I had to manually enter in the axis again for it to read properly. (Just remap all the control axis in the options menu)

It happened to me twice as I bought a HOTAS. So I'm very sure that's the issue you (and others) are having.

I was so used to it being difficult to aim that once I figured it out I was a crack shot almost immediately :cool: Hope this helps
 
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