Gene Roddenberry talked about it in 1964, Asimov talked about it in 1942... at least they didn't pretend they weren't making it up!Bob Lazaar talked about this in 1985 its great to see mainstream science ripping him off now
Lazaar is a nutter.
Mathematical theory behind Alcubierre-White Warp Bubble Oscillation Drive
- Thread starter Shigawire
- Start date
Lazaar is a nutter.
Nah, if they did they'd be much better at scamming cash out of the government.
Their budget is in tatters.
Their budget is in tatters.
I posted this already but it was put in as a duplicate of this thread so I'm pasting it here again:
There is a great video and link to images of a ship they want to build for testing a Alcubierre drive, which is what the Hyperdrive and Supercruise I believe are based on. Video is about an hour, lots of science.
http://io9.com/heres-nasas-new-design-for-a-warp-drive-ship-1588948192
I'd love to see some of these in ED For example you could find a colony 400ly out, and if you land on the planet you can see something like their power station is built around it because it has a nuclear drive and 400ly only took them two weeks.
There is a great video and link to images of a ship they want to build for testing a Alcubierre drive, which is what the Hyperdrive and Supercruise I believe are based on. Video is about an hour, lots of science.
http://io9.com/heres-nasas-new-design-for-a-warp-drive-ship-1588948192
I'd love to see some of these in ED For example you could find a colony 400ly out, and if you land on the planet you can see something like their power station is built around it because it has a nuclear drive and 400ly only took them two weeks.
Yeah, already posted that on page 2
And no the ship designs are not for testing the Alcubierre drive, we are an unknown quantity of time away from getting it to a practical testing form. Could be less than a century away, a whole century away or five centuries away, we simply have no idea.
Harold White says he's waiting for the "Chicago Pile" moment, when the first practical demonstration of the concept is carried out. The very first nuclear reactor produced half a watt, the next year they had a prototype producing 4 Megawatts. We're not even at the "half watt" point in terms of being able to warp York Time yet.
These designs are merely conceptual designs, like "dreaming ahead" kind of thing. Though we need that kind of dreaming.. as long as it's based in mathematics and GR physics.
Though the Juday-White interferometer is the first step on the way towards a "Chicago Pile" moment.
My emails between Harold White are on page 1, I think.
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http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2014/06/nasa-unveils-concept-warp-drive-interstellar-spaceship/
There's another article on this concept ship (Dr Harold White) here. Some more concept stuff.
Another new article here too:
http://beforeitsnews.com/alternativ...o-news-ufo-sightings-and-roswell-2975276.html
For anyone that's really (really) interested in this stuff, there's a google book on Field propulsion systems:
http://books.google.co.uk/books/abo...Space_Travel.html?id=o_Ik1gpacgYC&redir_esc=y
I must admit, I've not read it all myself (just skimmed it) but there's some theoretical stuff there on stuff relevent to this thread. (Click on Chapter 01 etc, it's not clear you have to do this).
Edit: Just noticed, this is just an extract from the book (you'd have to buy it) - there's loads of pages missing. Still might be of interest to someone though.
There's another article on this concept ship (Dr Harold White) here. Some more concept stuff.
Another new article here too:
http://beforeitsnews.com/alternativ...o-news-ufo-sightings-and-roswell-2975276.html
For anyone that's really (really) interested in this stuff, there's a google book on Field propulsion systems:
http://books.google.co.uk/books/abo...Space_Travel.html?id=o_Ik1gpacgYC&redir_esc=y
I must admit, I've not read it all myself (just skimmed it) but there's some theoretical stuff there on stuff relevent to this thread. (Click on Chapter 01 etc, it's not clear you have to do this).
Edit: Just noticed, this is just an extract from the book (you'd have to buy it) - there's loads of pages missing. Still might be of interest to someone though.
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It is a very beautiful concept art!
Dr. White mentioned to me a book that he says is "gold standard":
The math requires negative vacuum energy – I suggest you look up Casimir force. There are additional ways to do this, and Dr. Eric Davis covers some of them in his chapter of the AIAA book titled Frontiers of Propulsion Science (AIAA best seller on 2nd edition). It is a highly technical book, but “gold standard” library reference so to speak.
Hmm but if most of space is just empty and everything in space is moving, e.g. the planet your 'crash test dummy' is on is spinning around it's axis, in an orbit around it's star in an orbit around it's galactic core which is whizzing through space, moving in time without moving in space is more likely to dump you into a big bit of empty space.
Apparently you're moving at about 1.3 million miles per hour (2.1 million km/hr) using the universe as a frame of reference. We are all faster than a speeding bullet, even sitting down! link
So if someone says, "Hey want to test my new time machine?", probably best to ask how fast it goes.
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Yea, that's a good point. Fixed coordinates in moving universe may result in being dumped in another galaxy that snuck up on you while you where traveling.
Props for him asnwering.
but all he really said was
"Its too complex for you.
google it "
but all he really said was
"Its too complex for you.
google it "
As the saying goes, the effectiveness of a technology for propulsion is proportional to its effectiveness as a weapon.
Spoken like a true Klingon Scientist.
Bob Lazaar talked about this in 1985 its great to see mainstream science ripping him off now
Explains exactly how it work, 'All' you would need is some anti-matter, not an energy source the size of jupiter (what??!)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJolFbj8nc4&index=90&list=PLCF49ADB83526952B
I was about to say that. I believe his claim was that Element 115 crafted in particular geometrical arrangements (triangles I think) would be the exotic matter that was necessary for it to work. Also I think Lazar drove a red C4 Corvette which is hardly an expensive or rare car to come by and has since gone to great lenghts to distance himself from the public.
Dunno what to make of it probably more hoaky then genuine but who knows... maybe there is a hint of truth in what he said just a hint tho.
I know it's a game but how can you hyper-jump THROUGH a sun in ED without any effect on it? If its just about folding space then surely this would damage the sun.
Oh Wait I think I answered that myself...
Oh Wait I think I answered that myself...
"Negative vacuum energy" is a real thing, and has been directly measured in repeatable, verified experiments (although at very low levels thus far, not even remotely approaching the energies required for an Alcubierre drive) via the Casimir Effect.
The Casimir Effect is the odd phenomenon of getting energy for "free", in apparent violation of the Law of Conservation of Energy (it's not a violation at all, but you need to take a quantum mechanical view, rather than a classical, Newtonian view of the Universe to understand why, and get the equations right) by holding 2 flat plates arbitrarily close to each other. As the distance between the 2 plates reduces, wavelengths of EM radiation longer than the distance between the plates are excluded from that region of space, causing a pressure differential between the inside and outside of the plates, and thus a resultant force.
"Vacuum energy", also known as "zero point energy", is a concept predicted by Heisenbergs' work (no, nothing to do with blue crystals, concentrate at the back there), which states that absolutely empty vacuum will spawn short lived particle / anti-particle pairs spontaneously. If you can find a way to manipulate those particles during their trillionths-of-a-second lifespans, you can extract useful work from literally nothing. "Negative vacuum energy" just means that you are working with the anti-particles.
In this context, "exotic matter" means a particle with quantum properties that correspond with negative mass. Whilst we have never directly observed such a particle, there is no particular reason in current theory that it would be forbidden from existing. Doubtless it would be extremely difficult and expensive to produce and work with, but those are just engineering problems which will inevitably be solved, eventually.
All of this is very much at the theoretical stage at the moment, and even if the theory all pans out, it may be that the required matter is forbidden, or because of the implications relating to time paradoxes it just won't work the way we want, because it casts any affected object into a different timeline, or an alternate reality or any number of other pitfalls, but right now, there don't seem to be any deal breakers inherent in the concept.
The Casimir Effect is the odd phenomenon of getting energy for "free", in apparent violation of the Law of Conservation of Energy (it's not a violation at all, but you need to take a quantum mechanical view, rather than a classical, Newtonian view of the Universe to understand why, and get the equations right) by holding 2 flat plates arbitrarily close to each other. As the distance between the 2 plates reduces, wavelengths of EM radiation longer than the distance between the plates are excluded from that region of space, causing a pressure differential between the inside and outside of the plates, and thus a resultant force.
"Vacuum energy", also known as "zero point energy", is a concept predicted by Heisenbergs' work (no, nothing to do with blue crystals, concentrate at the back there), which states that absolutely empty vacuum will spawn short lived particle / anti-particle pairs spontaneously. If you can find a way to manipulate those particles during their trillionths-of-a-second lifespans, you can extract useful work from literally nothing. "Negative vacuum energy" just means that you are working with the anti-particles.
In this context, "exotic matter" means a particle with quantum properties that correspond with negative mass. Whilst we have never directly observed such a particle, there is no particular reason in current theory that it would be forbidden from existing. Doubtless it would be extremely difficult and expensive to produce and work with, but those are just engineering problems which will inevitably be solved, eventually.
All of this is very much at the theoretical stage at the moment, and even if the theory all pans out, it may be that the required matter is forbidden, or because of the implications relating to time paradoxes it just won't work the way we want, because it casts any affected object into a different timeline, or an alternate reality or any number of other pitfalls, but right now, there don't seem to be any deal breakers inherent in the concept.
My understanding was that it was always primarily an exercise in theoretical physics, though such things can often drive research in non-standard directions.
>> My understanding was that it was always primarily an exercise in theoretical physics
Yes, but nuclear fission was once an exercise in theoretical physics, and now we have nuclear weapons and reactors. The main point here is that we really just don't know whether such a drive will ever be practical, even if theory eventually shows that it isn't impossible
Yes, but nuclear fission was once an exercise in theoretical physics, and now we have nuclear weapons and reactors. The main point here is that we really just don't know whether such a drive will ever be practical, even if theory eventually shows that it isn't impossible
"Exotic Matter" has two real world problems, both of which make them unusable here in [what we tend to agree is] the Real world:
1) It doesn't Exist.
Exotic Matter is a lot like Dark Matter or Dark Energy... it is a temporary Fill-In that basically amounts to "we dont know what". To use as an example, Saying "we could use exotic matter to travel to the core of our planet" is equal to "We could use We Dont Know What to travel to the core of our planet".
Sure, Its possible that Exotic Matter could be a thing. Its also possible that I'm a Chinese Fighter Pilot [I'm not].
2) Exotic matter would cause a phase transition [and this one is terrifying]
If we made some Exotic Matter, It would end our universe. This goes down to "quantum refresh" of quarks and the fundamental forces of nature. The quarks inside a proton are constantly "refreshed"- reminded by continuous updates, that it is an up/down quark. This reminder comes from the other quarks in the proton, and the reminder is the transfer of information by bosons of the Strong Nuclear force. While they juggle around which of the three is the Down Quark, the set as a whole remains unchanged. this keeps them stable, and keeps quantum fluctuations out.
So, basically the quarks "talk to each other" by the interplay of forces upon each other, and the talk is "im an Up, you're a Down" over and over again since the beginning of time. This is what keeps a Proton a Proton.
Protons also talk to other atoms via the electromagnetic force- "I'm a proton, youre a proton. so we repel". This interplay of reminders actually affects the reality of what each participant "is", and thus forms the underlying cement of what is reality.
The whole Universe had been saying the same story, and things remain stable and "real". Atoms can form, Protons are stable, Stars can fuse atoms, on, and on. But add exotic matter to the mix... and it will change the reality: "Your an Up, I'm EXOTIC"- "Im and Exotic, Youre an Exotic". "Your a proton, I'm an Exotic", etc. and VERY rapidly- in rapid fire plank-time succession, the "exotic" wildcard will spread like a virus throughout reality, wiping out our universe in a phase transition of what matter "is" into this new state- much the same as how a glass of water phase transitions to Ice.
Only its not Ice. Its exotic, something not from our Universe, sharing its poisonous "reminders". and there is no guarantee it will hold anything together at all. Lets say Exotic matter has the infinite range of gravity force, but with the strength of a Strong nuclear force: FWOOMP!! Or its strong nuclear force is 5% weaker than ours: we all fizzle away as Exotic Gamma Rays as all matter simply dissolves.
Its not good. Not at all. Such a consequence is not nearly worth the effort to try to break the speed of light for a football, and should never be attempted.
My $.02
1) It doesn't Exist.
Exotic Matter is a lot like Dark Matter or Dark Energy... it is a temporary Fill-In that basically amounts to "we dont know what". To use as an example, Saying "we could use exotic matter to travel to the core of our planet" is equal to "We could use We Dont Know What to travel to the core of our planet".
Sure, Its possible that Exotic Matter could be a thing. Its also possible that I'm a Chinese Fighter Pilot [I'm not].
2) Exotic matter would cause a phase transition [and this one is terrifying]
If we made some Exotic Matter, It would end our universe. This goes down to "quantum refresh" of quarks and the fundamental forces of nature. The quarks inside a proton are constantly "refreshed"- reminded by continuous updates, that it is an up/down quark. This reminder comes from the other quarks in the proton, and the reminder is the transfer of information by bosons of the Strong Nuclear force. While they juggle around which of the three is the Down Quark, the set as a whole remains unchanged. this keeps them stable, and keeps quantum fluctuations out.
So, basically the quarks "talk to each other" by the interplay of forces upon each other, and the talk is "im an Up, you're a Down" over and over again since the beginning of time. This is what keeps a Proton a Proton.
Protons also talk to other atoms via the electromagnetic force- "I'm a proton, youre a proton. so we repel". This interplay of reminders actually affects the reality of what each participant "is", and thus forms the underlying cement of what is reality.
The whole Universe had been saying the same story, and things remain stable and "real". Atoms can form, Protons are stable, Stars can fuse atoms, on, and on. But add exotic matter to the mix... and it will change the reality: "Your an Up, I'm EXOTIC"- "Im and Exotic, Youre an Exotic". "Your a proton, I'm an Exotic", etc. and VERY rapidly- in rapid fire plank-time succession, the "exotic" wildcard will spread like a virus throughout reality, wiping out our universe in a phase transition of what matter "is" into this new state- much the same as how a glass of water phase transitions to Ice.
Only its not Ice. Its exotic, something not from our Universe, sharing its poisonous "reminders". and there is no guarantee it will hold anything together at all. Lets say Exotic matter has the infinite range of gravity force, but with the strength of a Strong nuclear force: FWOOMP!! Or its strong nuclear force is 5% weaker than ours: we all fizzle away as Exotic Gamma Rays as all matter simply dissolves.
Its not good. Not at all. Such a consequence is not nearly worth the effort to try to break the speed of light for a football, and should never be attempted.
My $.02