the FSS, watching paint dry....

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

Those of you worthy may apply for my squadron - "True Explorers [TREX]".

…

Please LOL, as that's the intention

So your squadron is outdated like the dinosaurs and a dictatorship that tells people when to LOL?

(I have to admit I (silently) loled while reading your comment )

 

[Blackcompany]

I have to admit that I didn't read all 35 pages (so far) of this thread. But meanwhile I found out what bothers me most with the new system: IMHO, it's a poorly designed 2D mini game. I don't talk about time sink versus usefulness or any other controversy. Only that it's a sort of hidden objects 2D game, not integrated in the cockpit.

And I don't have any issue using it. It's just boring and dull.

I feel the same.

I like a lot of the new stuff. Core mining and abrasion. New CZ mechanics. New USS mechanics. New ships.

But the FSS is boring. It adds nothing, only gets in the way of flying my ship.

 

[Simon Templar]

Well, despite being extremely drunk last night when I posted that, and despite recognising my irrational pessimistic cynicism (one of my nicer traits, relatively speaking), I could counter this by pointing out that CQC is and always was an add-on. It's not a core part of the main game, but completely ancillary to it. So it wouldn't be worth their time taking it out: they can just leave it to rot on the vine, as it were (and I haven't tried it for a long time, but even when I did I never got past "waiting for players").

Exploration, though, is something core to the game. I don't know if they'll take it out, if truth be told, but I haven't seen a great deal of positive reaction to it - certainly I seem to be one of relatively few who think it's a great step towards making exploration more interesting (though I'd like it to have gone further with, I dunno, signal analysis, spectral displays, etc). I see people complaining it's a 'minigame', but I love that: I love that there are little games to play and things to git gud at other than fighting or, as exploration has been focused on up to now, the skill of patience. Exploration is interactive now in a way that, to my mind at least, it never was before.

A very reasonable post (and rep'd!), but the bit I have highlighted in bold is the crux of it - some love the minigame, others don't. Personally I can't stand the way this feels like a minigame, it destroys my immersion. I know that I am not a space pilot, but the game plays as though I am... then the new exploration dynamic kicks in and I have a noddy game on another screen and suddenly it's like lots of other games and rather less like I'm a space pilot. So I now don't use any of the new exploration, don't like or follow lots of the stuff in my nav screen, don't like various aspects of the game related to it (and various space stations glow as if they're white hot when previously they didn't), so I'm a profoundly disappointed player this week. Some wordsmith further up the thread suggested that we could walk with our feet (thanks for pointing that out), and that's where I fear I'm heading, which is pretty heartbreaking after all the time, nostalgia and joy invested (not to mention money in paintjobs etc), but I thought this was an interesting point, your minigame part: we as a community are divided on whether we like that approach or not. So this is an unwinnable situation for FD since they have chosen to go down this route. I have spent hours now trying to love the new system and I properly hate it, won't reengage with it. I am not alone, from what others have said. But a majority seem to like or even love it. So it's going to stay. So it seems to me that FD are taking a path towards more minigames, more colour, more gimmicky addons, all of which is fine and makes sense from a production standpoint, but for me moves the game further away from what it was and towards other games on the market. So the future direction of ED is on the line, and it seems to me that the minigame/modern gaming approach has won out. That is fine, but will inevitably lead to a shift in the player base. They will lose people like me (although at 44 I'm not that old!), in a quest to appeal too a younger, broader or newer player base. That is fine but does seem a gamble.

Anyway, for me this is more a debate about minigames and pretty colours, and about immersion levels, than it is about the exploration dynamic per se. I expect a similar debate to take place following future updates as more areas of the game are hit by this new touch (have already seen a couple of Godawful paintjobs which point in a similar direction, ie away from where I want to be), until the playerbase adjustment settles down.

I just wish I had got into the game sooner - I have been playing the original on a C64 until earlier this year, finally joined this in November and it turned out to be a six month party. Oh, the wasted years...

o7

 

[Blackcompany]

Why cant we have this:

Honk: reveals all bodies as before. Does NOT pay credits, or count as Exploration data.

FSS: Gets tier 1 payout for exploration.

DSS: gets tier 2/bonus payout for thorough exploration.

This will allow sightseers like myself to explore more deeply if we WANT to, based on the Honk Reveal, but not get exploration credits for a simple honk.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Explained before by who? By you? Should i laugh now? What makes you think you set the rules of what is acceptable?
Yes i find it difficult to understand how many other people like flying a spaceship but not flying a spaceship and use a minigame instead, which using your logic, you cannot accept it, because of your fundamental inability to grasp how different people prefer different things.
See? I can apply that childish sentence of yours, anywhere to make a childish point.



You must think that you are very clever to disguise your insults about me, while implying that i don't have the mental capacity to understand what you think that is right on the matter. Since the mods haven't stopped you by now, i must tell you that it is impossible for me to explain to you, that exactly the logic you are trying to apply to other people, also applies to you too. There simply isn't a way for me to level with you down there, so you can understand what i am saying. So try to work it out yourself.

Just a little hint: if you dont like people to say you cant understand other people, stop constantly saying you dont understand other people. And maybe start accepting what other people say. For example, you say you dont like the FSS. Fine, people accept that. You have an opinion about a game, cool. Other people say they do like it. Try to accept that. You dont have to pretend 'they are not real explorers', 'they are only in the bubble' or 'they are just occassionally using it' or any such made-up nonsense. If people say they explore in deep-space and like using the FSS, you should just accept it and deal with other people having a different opinion. And if you really, really cannot do that, and feel the need to constantly ignore what others say while stating over and over you dont understand others, then dont be surprised when people point at you and say:"Hey, that dude over that really doesn't understand others, nor does he accept what they say." That is not being 'clever' or 'insulting', it is simply pointing out the words you post over and over. And I am expecting you to understand that, otherwise I wouldnt respond in the first place. It is not a grand mystery you solved, I literally just type English words aimed at you.

So, again: you dont like the FSS. Fine. Everyone knows that by now, and it is a perfectly fine opinion. But can you stop the endless pettiness of pretending anyone with a different opinion is not a True Scotsman? It is not too much to ask, I think.

 

[CMDR Carbo]

I was able to spend some hours with the new update this week and I have to say I love the new exploration mechanics. Love my new exploration ship, the Krait Phantom.
Not saying everything is perfect yet, but I like the direction FDEV is taking this.

My biggest gripe is also the FSS, I think it could feel more fluid and less 2D and gamey. I really dislike the waterfall effect and the pulsing blue orbs, which make in obvious your on a 2D screen and not looking around in space.
In addition, I feel the waterfall effect and the pulsating are really straining my eyes after a few hours of play, they feel very uncomfortable. And apparently, others have problems with migraines.

I usually have high praise for the arts team at FDEV, but with the color tint around stars, and the effects in the FSS, I think they are taking artistic freedom a bit too far.
What's wrong with realism?
The FSS would look way more immersive without the blue waterfall covering everything and just steady, faint outlines where a planets could be.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Why cant we have this:

Honk: reveals all bodies as before. Does NOT pay credits, or count as Exploration data.

FSS: Gets tier 1 payout for exploration.

DSS: gets tier 2/bonus payout for thorough exploration.

This will allow sightseers like myself to explore more deeply if we WANT to, based on the Honk Reveal, but not get exploration credits for a simple honk.

I can already tell you that some will complain that it reduces credit payout for honk+jumpers, for starters. I'd personally be fine with it, on the condition that what is revealed on the system map 1) isn't shown on the nav panel and cannot be selected on the sys map until scanned with the FSS, and 2) isn't revealed on the FSS screen before locating it yourself.

So if all it does is show the visuals on the system map, without providing shortcuts in any other way (so in other words just provide a visual aid for some to determine if they want to use the FSS or not), that is fine with most. I proposed it way back in beta as a compromise, and I dont think many, if any, opposed it.

 

[Tifu]

Doubtful. They may add an in cockpit signature after the honk. But even that much change seems unlikely to me.

Enough players exploring right now. The amount of mapped planets I encounter not that close to the bubble says that a lot of people are exploring. Or ... the after effect of the mapping gold rush.

4,200 commanders have signed up with the DW2 expedition. Only a handful have withdrawn because they disliked the new exploration mechanics.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

4,200 commanders have signed up with the DW2 expedition. Only a handful have withdrawn because they disliked the new exploration mechanics.

The interesting part is how many will keep participating.

 

[Burke]

The interesting part is how many will keep participating.

Yeah i contained myself from making this post but 4200 is basicly the entire playing steam pop. If you really get that many then well done.

 

[EUS]

4,200 commanders have signed up with the DW2 expedition. Only a handful have withdrawn because they disliked the new exploration mechanics.

I, for one, do not need to be the center of attention, and would rather just quietly not participate.

 

[Ian Skippy]

The interesting part is how many will keep participating.

I am strongly considering bailing on DWE2. Not because of the FSS, but because DWE2 has lost relevance since 3.3. I think the days of expeditions to an arbitrary location with no real objective are ending, and we'll have expeditions directly aimed at finding something. The codex greatly increased the potential relevance of expeditions, and I want to see how this plays out.

 

[RymdLazer]

I'm all for immersion. I immerse fully. Thing is, to me fss ENHANCES, immersion since it's me peeping into a sweet space telescope and zooming in on spacestuff. Much more immersive than a instant show planets button. Like, if one partakes in this psycho-whiney vibe going on, why do you even have to honk then? Why honk? It's not even a "mini game". It's a slow button press to reveal stuff that's already there.
I love the changes. And my opinion is valid. Truetrue.

 

[Riverside]

I am strongly considering bailing on DWE2. Not because of the FSS, but because DWE2 has lost relevance since 3.3. I think the days of expeditions to an arbitrary location with no real objective are ending, and we'll have expeditions directly aimed at finding something. The codex greatly increased the potential relevance of expeditions, and I want to see how this plays out.

I'm not signed up for DW2 (not much of a social player & prefer to do my own thing) but I do think the focus with the new process has changed from simply reaching a destination (as I did taking a 19ly ship to Beagle Point, it was more about the system jumps than the actual systems themselves) to finding all the things.

Obviously both are still valid goals, it's just the focus that has shifted. We have a new toy to play with (I'm talking about the probes/mapping) that opens up a playstyle to a much wider audience, and being able to more quickly establish which bodies meet the criteria given in the codex for finding a feature is definitely something the FSS does better than the ADS.

 

[Lobstris]

To be fair, as much as I'm defending the FSS (and I'm of the same opinion as RymdLazer above), based on experience of our player group, I'm in a very small minority. More people seem to be looking to other pastures, with the FSS complexity, clunkiness and need for more key bindings, being the 'straw that broke the camel's back' on the general low level of quality and content added throughout Beyond.

 

[Maro-Val]

Just a little hint: if you dont like people to say you cant understand other people, stop constantly saying you dont understand other people. And maybe start accepting what other people say. For example, you say you dont like the FSS. Fine, people accept that. You have an opinion about a game, cool. Other people say they do like it. Try to accept that. You dont have to pretend 'they are not real explorers', 'they are only in the bubble' or 'they are just occassionally using it' or any such made-up nonsense. If people say they explore in deep-space and like using the FSS, you should just accept it and deal with other people having a different opinion. And if you really, really cannot do that, and feel the need to constantly ignore what others say while stating over and over you dont understand others, then dont be surprised when people point at you and say:"Hey, that dude over that really doesn't understand others, nor does he accept what they say." That is not being 'clever' or 'insulting', it is simply pointing out the words you post over and over. And I am expecting you to understand that, otherwise I wouldnt respond in the first place. It is not a grand mystery you solved, I literally just type English words aimed at you.

So, again: you dont like the FSS. Fine. Everyone knows that by now, and it is a perfectly fine opinion. But can you stop the endless pettiness of pretending anyone with a different opinion is not a True Scotsman? It is not too much to ask, I think.

Seriously what are you talking about? You are giving me hints and you are patronizing me, while in reality you are the one that cannot accept that something may indeed need tweaking and it doesn't need to fit only the bubble explorer. And YES i said bubble explorer. I respect all the kinds of explorers out there, except those of your kind ofc, i just cannot understand how is it possible that a solution cannot be found to keep everyone happy in 2018 gaming. It is not rocket science, it has be done before. Just because you are happy finding USSs and playing blue blob land, doesn't mean that i have to stop thinking and typing the way i do. It may be wonderful inside that bubble of yours, but it is just that.. yours.
And keep the "hints" to yourself next time professor.

 

[Ian Skippy]

I'm all for immersion. I immerse fully. Thing is, to me fss ENHANCES, immersion since it's me peeping into a sweet space telescope and zooming in on spacestuff. Much more immersive than a instant show planets button. Like, if one partakes in this psycho-whiney vibe going on, why do you even have to honk then? Why honk? It's not even a "mini game". It's a slow button press to reveal stuff that's already there.
I love the changes. And my opinion is valid. Truetrue.

That puzzles me a bit too. If people dont like the FSS and want it gone, okay I get it. But the old DSS 'wait for x seconds' and old ADS 'hold button for x seconds' are so minimal, having literally nothing instead would be better: instant auto-honk on entrance and instant resolving when pointing at them. And at that point, what would be the advantage of ED over, say, Space Engine?

I'm not signed up for DW2 (not much of a social player & prefer to do my own thing) but I do think the focus with the new process has changed from simply reaching a destination (as I did taking a 19ly ship to Beagle Point, it was more about the system jumps than the actual systems themselves) to finding all the things.

Obviously both are still valid goals, it's just the focus that has shifted. We have a new toy to play with (I'm talking about the probes/mapping) that opens up a playstyle to a much wider audience, and being able to more quickly establish which bodies meet the criteria given in the codex for finding a feature is definitely something the FSS does better than the ADS.

True. I think the great allure of the new expeditions will be that you can 1) actually find stuff the average gamer would be interested in (eg. an alien ship instead of a slightly taller mountain), 2) have more involved gameplay (so more pressing buttons and less waiting), and most importantly, 3) have it relatively close to the bubble. The Gnosis thing was so popular because veryone could join, be part of the event, and then mix it with some other gameplay later without spending weeks or even months pressing the jump button literally thousands upon thousands of time.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

I'm all for immersion. I immerse fully. Thing is, to me fss ENHANCES, immersion since it's me peeping into a sweet space telescope and zooming in on spacestuff. Much more immersive than a instant show planets button. Like, if one partakes in this psycho-whiney vibe going on, why do you even have to honk then? Why honk? It's not even a "mini game". It's a slow button press to reveal stuff that's already there.
I love the changes. And my opinion is valid. Truetrue.

The revealing planets part wasn't the bit I got enjoyment from.
It was the flying around the system to gather detailed information part that I found pleasurable - so the honk was just a means to an end, rather than the gameplay itself.
The FSS gives me too much information too soon, via a mechanism I don't enjoy, so I'd like the option to continue to explore as I used to.

 

[Xolarix]

You young whippersnapper OP, thinking this is boring or inconvenient. Hah.

Back in MY day, I had to fly around with a limited-range discovery scanner (500ls. 1000ls if you were rich. The one with infinite range was for the truly rich who grinded mindlessly). To find stuff further away in a system, I had to fly around and look out for any moving dots, because of the parallax effect. These moving dots were then planets and such.
To scan a planet it also took 15 seconds of mindlessly staring at it from close range.


It has improved so much, IMO it can't be improved further without taking away the actual effort involved in scanning.

 

[Enderby]

To hell with the 2d blob game