My detailed feedback after a week out

[jacob99]

Although personally I really like the idea and the use of the FSS due to its ability to quickly scan and tag entire systems, I have to agree with those saying it's a lot harder (or perhaps more time consuming would be a better phrasing) to find unique systems and systems with oddities and anomalies in their makeups. What realistically needs to happen is the return of the initial honk revealing the system maps, with images and some minor detail of planets being revealed there as was the case in the previous system while still using the FSS and probes for the scanning of planets. I get the feeling this would help cater for the needs of both sides of the argument here, as on one hand those looking for unique systems can have a quick glance of the system map before and look for anything which is potentially interesting, and on the other hand those interested in tagging systems or scanning valuable planets within a system still get the use of the FSS.

Alternatively I suppose both systems, old and new, could have remained in game. With the compromise of having to take an ADS out as well if you want to use the old system, but the DSS still having probing functionality to make it worthwhile. Equally, for those that want it the FSS could remain in game for optional use. Personally I think I'd prefer a combination of the approaches like I mentioned above to avoid confusion and complication in game, but if both systems being in game with the option to choose between the two would please more people and bring those who have given up on exploration back it would be a fair and reasonable solution.

 

[Straha Yeagar]

Add the Orrery populating to the initial honk to see system layout at a glance. FSS to populate the system map and provide planetary body details. Allow for the FSS to point automatically at a body selected from the Orrery.

 

[Wobblin-Gobblin]

Some things are nice, but I was hoping for 'many new things to discover', such as new phenomena (supernovae, dangerous black holes, comets, lighnings in gas giant's atmospheres etc). But nada, only these nebulae with some strange things inside.

 

[Qohen Leth]

"How would you sum up the new exploration content of Chapter 4?"

Spoiler

 

[Wolf Starslayer]

Add the Orrery populating to the initial honk to see system layout at a glance. FSS to populate the system map and provide planetary body details. Allow for the FSS to point automatically at a body selected from the Orrery.

This seems a nice idea to allow for a instant 'overview' while keeping the FSS function largely to FD original design.

 

[Scytale]

"How would you sum up the new exploration content of Chapter 4?"

As expected, never was our FDevs intention.
Just hype the kids with dull minigames and give new targets to the pewpewers. (And with infinite ammo, please !)
No content, no consistent story lines... ED is turning out into an arcade -ish space game.

 

[Leper Messiah]

Even though I quite like the new FSS (not too keen on probe mapping though:/ ) I understand the chagrin many feel. What I'm surprised by is that I don't really recall many moaning about the "honk" per se...but the need in the "old" days to SC up to every body to figure out what it was....well that was horrible placeholder "gameplay" IMO with that horrible never ending beep beep and spinny doobry. I moaned about it quite a bit. The FSS should have only replaced that and nothing else, then I think there wouldn't have been quite the crud storm.

I think FD could bring back the "old" honk revealing the system map, but have it for info only and have no value, so the cherry pickers can find the interesting stuff they used to but if they want cash they'll have to use the FSS and probing.

 

[Sunyavadin]

I think FD could bring back the "old" honk revealing the system map, but have it for info only and have no value, so the cherry pickers can find the interesting stuff they used to but if they want cash they'll have to use the FSS and probing.

Indeed, a fair balance.

 

[Wolf Starslayer]

I think thats too much info' ; most I'd like to see is a 'blank' orrery. So you could see the positions but nothing more, no composition details or surface maps etc. Otherwise we seem to be making the FSS redundant which I doubt FD would accept after all that design time; plus many of us like it and wouldn't want to 'go back'.

 

[Orvidius]

This is where the old black spheres could make a useful comeback. The map and orrery could fill in with those from the honk, and show detail after FSS scanning, which would be a nice middle ground. And as mentioned before I think using an additional modules to add that capability would be OK too, so that becomes a choice. (even better if it's a utility slot).

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I don't get why the spheres would need to be black. It's not really to hide there's ELW, WW or AWs in them, since the electro magnetic spectrum is far more clear on their existence. When you open the FSS, you know whether there's planets of that type in the region. And if the impression of the system map is not selectable, it wouldn't affect the information of the FSS.

Just the visual information, and nothing else would also be quite believable, since it's just photons hitting whatever receptor is used.

 

[Wolf Starslayer]

I'd rather they just left it as is then bring back a defacto ADS, don't really see a need to change the design. Especially as players cant agree on if such a change should happen or what it should be. Let the Dev's design the game we do far too much back-seating.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Oh they'll leave it like it is. That much was clear from the second livestream on.

These discussions are just academic.

 

[Wolf Starslayer]

All good then, didn't see the streams; academe away.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

All good then, didn't see the streams; academe away.

You missed that? Shame, it was hilarious.

First livestream, they showed of the mechanism, and assured everyone the honk would still pay.
After the first livestream the most heard criticism they got was: long range/traveling explorers would be missing a way to quickly get an idea of what kind of system they are going through. That's important, not the pay.
Second livestream: "We listened to your feedback, and we increased the pay of the honk.

Bless 'em

 

[Straha Yeagar]

You missed that? Shame, it was hilarious.

First livestream, they showed of the mechanism, and assured everyone the honk would still pay.
After the first livestream the most heard criticism they got was: long range/traveling explorers would be missing a way to quickly get an idea of what kind of system they are going through. That's important, not the pay.
Second livestream: "We listened to your feedback, and we increased the pay of the honk.

Bless 'em

Oh you silly Ziggy you. They said they LISTENED to our feedback. Factually true. They never said they acted on it. Also, factually true.

I read and considered this whole thread, and bought a horse.

 

[disorganise]

Which leads to the question: what from the lessons learned there could be used to better exploration?

There is one issue that I rarely see raised, but I think is just as fundamental: interstellar travel in Elite is boring. Point at star, press jump, do absolutely nothing but look around or alt-tab out*, then arrive. If we could actually fly our ship through witch-space, much like we can through a ring (of asteroids), avoiding obstacles and looking for something, that in my opinion would be much better. There's plenty of potential and room for improvement in traversing the galaxy, yet all that has ever happened was that we got ever and ever increasing jump ranges. And for times when you want to survey an area of systems, you could still use the good old FSD jumps.



*: hyperdictions were done quite well because starting from when one starts, and once you get hit by the pulse, it turns the "do absolutely nothing" against you, to ramp up the tension.

Yeah, the interdiction mini game (or a derivative anyway) would be fine by me for the hyperspace jump. Ideally, failure would drop you short. But that would mean loading another system which is probably a problem given it's really a loading screen.
So instead, perhaps simply damage to the FSD like neutrons do. Pilot through the jump successfully, no damage. Do nothing/pilot poorly, damage the drives... And maybe the hull too.

On the flip side, every jump? Not so sure.
There could be some random instability in the conduit that means you have to hands on pilot. So a lot of jumps are like today and then some have the interdiction derivative.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Yeah, the interdiction mini game (or a derivative anyway) would be fine by me for the hyperspace jump. Ideally, failure would drop you short. But that would mean loading another system which is probably a problem given it's really a loading screen.
So instead, perhaps simply damage to the FSD like neutrons do. Pilot through the jump successfully, no damage. Do nothing/pilot poorly, damage the drives... And maybe the hull too.

On the flip side, every jump? Not so sure.
There could be some random instability in the conduit that means you have to hands on pilot. So a lot of jumps are like today and then some have the interdiction derivative.

Whilst I personally wouldn't like playing ANOTHER minigame on every jump, assuming that it there was a minigame then I'd say failure should revert you to the starting system, not drop you someplace else since that could be extremely problematic in sparse regions and just flat out weird on short jumps. Also, short jumps should be easier than long ones, with difficulty increasing exponentially so you'd be able to make a decision about how much difficulty/risk you were prepared to accept.

 

[Pirin]

Which leads to the question: what from the lessons learned there could be used to better exploration?

There is one issue that I rarely see raised, but I think is just as fundamental: interstellar travel in Elite is boring. Point at star, press jump, do absolutely nothing but look around or alt-tab out*, then arrive. If we could actually fly our ship through witch-space, much like we can through a ring (of asteroids), avoiding obstacles and looking for something, that in my opinion would be much better. There's plenty of potential and room for improvement in traversing the galaxy, yet all that has ever happened was that we got ever and ever increasing jump ranges. And for times when you want to survey an area of systems, you could still use the good old FSD jumps.



*: hyperdictions were done quite well because starting from when one starts, and once you get hit by the pulse, it turns the "do absolutely nothing" against you, to ramp up the tension.

I agree travel is rather bland and uninteresting. Any improvement on that front will be much appreciated. But to me the main problem with exploration is related to what we able to find out there. I am not interested in exotic (and totally unrealistic) life forms. Which are static, non-interactive and completely unrelated to anything in this game. Instead i would like to be able to find things which are:

1. Rare - which make them valuable
2. Useful and/or interactive
3. Have impact on my gameplay
4. All of the above


...and while searching for these things i would happily make tons of screenshots of any cool things i find along the way.

 

[velospeed2002]

IMHO,

FD have replaced

passive, tedious yet wonderfully immersive gameplay in honking, viewing the system map and possibly physically traveling to objects of interest

with

active, tedious yet non-immersive gameplay in the FSS, what I consider easy 'busy work' in chasing 2D blobs, circles, arrows and weird sounds.

The former method just flowed really well as you traversed the galaxy looking for rare shinies from the amazing perspective of your cockpit window. The new way is clunky, even painful at times. During my short trip last night, I couldn't bring myself to play the FSS mini-game at all. I'm already burnt out on it.

They put so much work into lovingly creating a beautiful environment to play in, that it boggles my mind that they want to remove explorers from it. Spending the vast majority of my time looking at the witchspace cut scene and FSS interface? Sorry, but no thanks.

Others players' tolerances will vary, but I will agree with previous posters that this feature is ultimately doomed. FD will either revert it, or more likely make significant changes. It won't be because of us current crop of fuddy duddy complainers.

Again, just my opinion.