Modes I know I'm beating a dead horse, but we need official PvE servers

[AP Birdman]

Really? It's clearly meant as an insult - when it comes to words, context is key. There can be no arguement that of the definitions you listed yourself, the use of 'hiding in solo', within the context of these forums, is meant to invoke specifically 'in a way considered cowardly'. It's an endrun around forum rules against insulting people. Now, I play in Open, always have, from day one in a Sidewinder, have never logged into Solo, and not once has it occured to me to slag off Solo players as 'hiding like cowards'. Here's an analogy for you - I go down to the club (local tennis club with big screens) to watch footy on Saturdays, I never go to the local up the hill, because I simply do not enjoy that environment when I'm trying to relax with a pint and enjoy the game - do you think anyone has ever told me to stop hiding in the club?

PS No need for an official PvE server, there are already 3 - Open, Solo, and PG - you can offically PvE in all of them!

I don't think it's an insult. I played in pg for the first month or two because of the stories of griefers my friends told me and I did it to hide from them.
Players that play in pg or solo are doing it because they want to avoid contact with other players and there's nothing wrong with that. Avoiding, hiding, same thing, and there's nothing to be ashamed of.
I still play in solo/pg when I run Robigo because I don't want to have to fight for a pad but also because I'm hiding from players that sit out there and blow up pilots in shieldless pythons and I run my python shieldless to maximize my payouts.

I'm not ashamed to say I hide in solo/pg to run certain kinds of missions and I'm perfectly capable of handling myself in pvp combat.

 

[Goose4291]

The problem I think stems a little from people talking over each other about two very different things.

When I (or others such as the odd Powerplayer who wanders in here and instantly regrets it) refer to 'hiding' its being done in a specific manner i.e. prepping/fortifying in PG/Solo to avoid the risk that being in open entails of meeting an opponent who wont just ineffectually tickle you with a wet fish, or the carrying out of undermining in PG/Solo as it provides you a 'cloak' to hide your actions in, as well as allowing you to safely build up an unopposable merit bomb over the seven days, because you know carrying merits around for that length of time is considerably safer.

No one really gives a fig about little Jimmy plodding along in solo enjoying his game, or having a private session with his buddies (which is who Im sure Jockey, Sylveria, Mouse and the usual suspect think the ire is being fired at).

And I really wouldnt start the who's saltier flame war, because some of the comments, rants and vitriol I've read over the years on both sides is incredibly cringe.

 

[KestrelPi]

The thing that annoys me is that the people who prefer PvE are expected to adapt to the way PvPers play or they're apparently "hiding" or just bad at the game. But the moment we ask for a change to support our style of play this is beyond the pale.

Look, if I wanted to I could worry about gankers and all that stuff but it's not why I got into the game, and that's why I don't spend any time in open. It's just not something I want to spend any time thinking about or doing. I do like positive co-op experiences with strangers though, and an idea of a PvE community which is why I wish there were a formal way of doing this rather than the player created workarounds we have.

And I genuinely don't buy the idea this ruins things for anyone. We already have player workarounds. Making it official just... makes it official so there's one hub for it instead of several. If there are so many players who enjoy PvP they should be fine too. And if there was to be some mass exodus to PvE only leaving PvP empty, then what does that say about the state of PvP in elite?

 

[Jockey79]

... And I genuinely don't buy the idea this ruins things for anyone. ....

Well, it ruins the odds some people will find soft targets if everyone can easily go into PvE.

You see thing is, that currently it's harder for PvE players to play socially.
As they can either play Open and be forced to PvP or have to mess about with PGs.
And even with PGs, you get few CMDRs to be matched with than you'll find in Open Mode.

Plus some people don't understand the mode system, hence why we get PvE players moaning about being killed in Open.
They don't know they can play other modes with the same CMDR and don't know about the Mobius Groups or other PvE Groups.

So by objecting to an Open PvE mode with everyone would see on the main menu.
Some people are keeping a hurdle in front of PvE'ers to help boost their odds of getting their cheap kills.
As they know that those who currently unknowingly play Open PvP would swap to Open PvE if it was on the menu system.

 

[Aardwolfz]

Get yourself lost.

No one needs you here, here is Open.
No one wants you, playing modes your note up to.

Get lost. Keep it to yourself.

Open is all in one.

With and without


edit

Open space, pun intended, scope in abundance

I'm a player that doesn't want to be ganked every time I go into a busy system to trade goods. Griefers DO need us, otherwise all that's left to grief are other griefers, and that won't be any fun, now will it? But having an job and studies means my free time is limited, and won't be wasted playing in Open so you people can ruin the already short game sessions I have... I've already said earlier, you lot don't need to worry any more, I won't be back in Open again....

Edit: This thread has gone on quite a bit longer than I expected it to go, and after Dietger's comment I can see it's outlived its potential as a proper discussion... I'm calling it quits thanks for those that provided decent discussion for both sides of this argument

 

[00nutzy]

The problem I think stems a little from people talking over each other about two very different things.

When I (or others such as the odd Powerplayer who wanders in here and instantly regrets it) refer to 'hiding' its being done in a specific manner i.e. prepping/fortifying in PG/Solo to avoid the risk that being in open entails of meeting an opponent who wont just ineffectually tickle you with a wet fish, or the carrying out of undermining in PG/Solo as it provides you a 'cloak' to hide your actions in, as well as allowing you to safely build up an unopposable merit bomb over the seven days, because you know carrying merits around for that length of time is considerably safer.

No one really gives a fig about little Jimmy plodding along in solo enjoying his game, or having a private session with his buddies (which is who Im sure Jockey, Sylveria, Mouse and the usual suspect think the ire is being fired at).

And I really wouldnt start the who's saltier flame war, because some of the comments, rants and vitriol I've read over the years on both sides is incredibly cringe.

I guess i am the usual suspect

One of the problems Goose is that when those words (hiding etc) are thrown around they it appears they are being thrown at the entire user base, clarity of intent is not present, especially in this thread.

Yes both sides get salty and no doubt there.

 

[NovusNecrontyr]

I play PvE.
I have my reasons. They may not be as valid as a mental condition, despite already having one, but I choose not to play PvP for the sole purpose of denying people the pleasure of ruining my game. This is a measure of action I choose to take because I like to choose how to play my game instead of someone else dictating how my game should be played (git gud scrub).

I am willing to go through the hoops of joining a PvE PG instead of simply clicking Open Play. I am not interested in being the 'victim' of someone's superiority fetish. It still boggles me that people find satisfaction in the discomfort of others, but then again, the human race ain't so pleasant.

If I am willing to go through such measures to avoid having my play experience dictated by others, then there sure as hell are hundreds more.
As much as I agree that a PvE server would degrade the experience of Open play, I disagree that it would have that significant of an impact. There are already thousands of people avoiding Open play, and that's with the necessity of having to register on sites, fill in forms and be approved for PGs.
This alone should be an indication of how detrimental of an effect 'griefers' are having on what could be a better play experience.

Now, I don't reply with only complaints. I do also wish to offer a solution, one that could be integrated into Open play.
Severe consequences on PvP players.
Hear me out.
Elite : Dangerous is all about how the players affect the course of the game, correct? Well, would the various NPC factions agree attacking someone who isn't a threat? Or perhaps a potential ally? As such, 'griefers' can be penalised with degrading reputation with the different factions. Except the Pirate faction. A new faction that embraces PvP, but one that is extremely dangerous (Elite Dangerous). Most stations would reject a pirate affiliated CMDR, but the Pirate stations welcome you, ripe with Black Market trade. The higher your bounty is, the bigger the discount. Lawless players are unable to claim those bounties though, and any lawful NPC could attack on sight.

So that's my contribution, instead of telling others they are wrong or are playing wrong, I would rather like to find a way to play together. A way to accept all the styles of play. If I am wrong in doing so, at least I will have my PG to play in and not care about having someone else ruin my play-style.

 

[Havvk]

I play PvE.
I have my reasons. They may not be as valid as a mental condition, despite already having one, but I choose not to play PvP for the sole purpose of denying people the pleasure of ruining my game. This is a measure of action I choose to take because I like to choose how to play my game instead of someone else dictating how my game should be played (git gud scrub).

I am willing to go through the hoops of joining a PvE PG instead of simply clicking Open Play. I am not interested in being the 'victim' of someone's superiority fetish. It still boggles me that people find satisfaction in the discomfort of others, but then again, the human race ain't so pleasant.

If I am willing to go through such measures to avoid having my play experience dictated by others, then there sure as hell are hundreds more.
As much as I agree that a PvE server would degrade the experience of Open play, I disagree that it would have that significant of an impact. There are already thousands of people avoiding Open play, and that's with the necessity of having to register on sites, fill in forms and be approved for PGs.
This alone should be an indication of how detrimental of an effect 'griefers' are having on what could be a better play experience.

Now, I don't reply with only complaints. I do also wish to offer a solution, one that could be integrated into Open play.
Severe consequences on PvP players.
Hear me out.
Elite : Dangerous is all about how the players affect the course of the game, correct? Well, would the various NPC factions agree attacking someone who isn't a threat? Or perhaps a potential ally? As such, 'griefers' can be penalised with degrading reputation with the different factions. Except the Pirate faction. A new faction that embraces PvP, but one that is extremely dangerous (Elite Dangerous). Most stations would reject a pirate affiliated CMDR, but the Pirate stations welcome you, ripe with Black Market trade. The higher your bounty is, the bigger the discount. Lawless players are unable to claim those bounties though, and any lawful NPC could attack on sight.

So that's my contribution, instead of telling others they are wrong or are playing wrong, I would rather like to find a way to play together. A way to accept all the styles of play. If I am wrong in doing so, at least I will have my PG to play in and not care about having someone else ruin my play-style.

Sadly, as countless times I've seen such suggestions, this goes ignored so many times.

Why? Who knows? But this is the only true way to make open great again. Give benefits that are exclusive to certain playstyles for CMDRs. Lawful grants the ability to work with everyone and you can have the police and such to be on your side. But this also restricts you from being able to work with the black market, and other more shady aspects of gameplay mechanics because no crime lord wants to work with a guy who's buddy buddy with the law; that's not what criminals want as that's bad for their criminal businesses.

While at the same time, criminal CMDRs can have access to illegal parts of the game, be it commodities or the black market. This path would make amazing profits with smuggling, slave trade, piracy and more. Benefits include not being put on a KoS list for anybody affiliated with criminal factions, because you work for/with them after all. (unless you rat on them and start doing lawful things.)

 

[Dietger]

Greetings Gentlemen
Remember the Hotel California?




Good natured PvE players playing Open. Complaining about it.





The very idea, all in one!
For once, Elite daring liberty. You, and me, and all under this stars, left alone doing whats needed to be done.





Who dares, who wins?

 

[AP Birdman]

I play PvE.
I have my reasons. They may not be as valid as a mental condition, despite already having one, but I choose not to play PvP for the sole purpose of denying people the pleasure of ruining my game. This is a measure of action I choose to take because I like to choose how to play my game instead of someone else dictating how my game should be played (git gud scrub).

I am willing to go through the hoops of joining a PvE PG instead of simply clicking Open Play. I am not interested in being the 'victim' of someone's superiority fetish. It still boggles me that people find satisfaction in the discomfort of others, but then again, the human race ain't so pleasant.

If I am willing to go through such measures to avoid having my play experience dictated by others, then there sure as hell are hundreds more.
As much as I agree that a PvE server would degrade the experience of Open play, I disagree that it would have that significant of an impact. There are already thousands of people avoiding Open play, and that's with the necessity of having to register on sites, fill in forms and be approved for PGs.
This alone should be an indication of how detrimental of an effect 'griefers' are having on what could be a better play experience.

Now, I don't reply with only complaints. I do also wish to offer a solution, one that could be integrated into Open play.
Severe consequences on PvP players.
Hear me out.
Elite : Dangerous is all about how the players affect the course of the game, correct? Well, would the various NPC factions agree attacking someone who isn't a threat? Or perhaps a potential ally? As such, 'griefers' can be penalised with degrading reputation with the different factions. Except the Pirate faction. A new faction that embraces PvP, but one that is extremely dangerous (Elite Dangerous). Most stations would reject a pirate affiliated CMDR, but the Pirate stations welcome you, ripe with Black Market trade. The higher your bounty is, the bigger the discount. Lawless players are unable to claim those bounties though, and any lawful NPC could attack on sight.

So that's my contribution, instead of telling others they are wrong or are playing wrong, I would rather like to find a way to play together. A way to accept all the styles of play. If I am wrong in doing so, at least I will have my PG to play in and not care about having someone else ruin my play-style.

I'm sorry but this is an absolutely absurd way to look at PvP and the reason why it's overlooked is because, thankfully, there are very few players that feel this way.

The fact that you're so bothered by me interdicting you and taking literally seconds of your time to see if you wanna fight me is absolutely ridiculous.
Submit and high wake, it take 15 seconds to do it.

This viewpoint of "how dare I waste you're time to see if you wanna fight me" is pathetic. I'm sorry to be so harsh but thousands of other commanders in open don't have these problems and clearly pg and solo is made for you.

 

[Havvk]

I'm sorry but this is an absolutely absurd way to look at PvP and the reason why it's overlooked is because, thankfully, there are very few players that feel this way.

The fact that you're so bothered by me interdicting you and taking literally seconds of your time to see if you wanna fight me is absolutely ridiculous.
Submit and high wake, it take 15 seconds to do it.

This viewpoint of "how dare I waste you're time to see if you wanna fight me" is pathetic. I'm sorry to be so harsh but thousands of other commanders in open don't have these problems and clearly pg and solo is made for you.

It takes 0 seconds to just not attack somebody to begin with.


I mean, I'm just saying.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

3. use (someone or something) to protect oneself from criticism or punishment, especially in a way considered cowardly.

This is clearly the implication you guys are going for.

Clearly.

 

[Dietger]

Who managed hiding in Open?


I know Robert Maynard finally did. Who else?
Beside me and him?

 

[Gun Star]

I have a lot of credits, but I still never fly any of my overly priced ships in open. I stick to mediums or small. The rebuys dont hurt as bad. The big 3 suck in pvp most of the time anyway.

 

[Dietger]

I have a lot of credits, but I still never fly any of my overly priced ships in open. I stick to mediums or small. The rebuys dont hurt as bad. The big 3 suck in pvp most of the time anyway.

Appreciate your comment.
Gun Star, 's not about counting credits, no?

Nomen est omen?

 

[NovusNecrontyr]

I'm sorry but this is an absolutely absurd way to look at PvP and the reason why it's overlooked is because, thankfully, there are very few players that feel this way.

The fact that you're so bothered by me interdicting you and taking literally seconds of your time to see if you wanna fight me is absolutely ridiculous.
Submit and high wake, it take 15 seconds to do it.

This viewpoint of "how dare I waste you're time to see if you wanna fight me" is pathetic. I'm sorry to be so harsh but thousands of other commanders in open don't have these problems and clearly pg and solo is made for you.

You're right. There are so few people that feel this way.
I wonder why Mobius is even viable.

 

[Havvk]

You're right. There are so few people that feel this way.
I wonder why Mobius is even viable.

I don't think it's that much of a mystery

 

[AP Birdman]

You're right. There are so few people that feel this way.
I wonder why Mobius is even viable.

Because there are too many players that doubt their own abilities to fight other players or to escape interdictions or have been convinced by over exaggerating carebears that open is full of griefers and you can't make more than 2 jumps without getting blown up by another player. There's also players with some kind of disability and just think they don't have the ability to escape other players.
And then you have the players that just can't be bothered to unlock any engineers or to put any kind of armor or shields on their ships.
In my opinion, many of these reasons are completely unwarranted and I believe that if many of those players actually gave open a chance and took a moment to learn how to escape a player interdiction, they would never play in pg/solo again.

 

[Havvk]

Because there are too many players that doubt their own abilities to fight other players or to escape interdictions or have been convinced by over exaggerating carebears that open is full of griefers and you can't make more than 2 jumps without getting blown up by another player. There's also players with some kind of disability and just think they don't have the ability to escape other players.
And then you have the players that just can't be bothered to unlock any engineers or to put any kind of armor or shields on their ships.
In my opinion, many of these reasons are completely unwarranted and I believe that if many of those players actually gave open a chance and took a moment to learn how to escape a player interdiction, they would never play in pg/solo again.

Or.


Wait..


OR



Maybe it's because not everybody likes to compete against each other in chest beating contests, not everybody likes playing against other players in direct violent means. Some like to just do BGS stuff, others flat out don't even care about what anybody else does. There is more to this game than trying to defeat another player, you know. Conflict is boring, peace is sometimes far superior in entertainment value to many.

 

[AP Birdman]

Or.


Wait..


OR



Maybe it's because not everybody likes to compete against each other in chest beating contests, not everybody likes playing against other players in direct violent means. Some like to just do BGS stuff, others flat out don't even care about what anybody else does. There is more to this game than trying to defeat another player, you know. Conflict is boring, peace is sometimes far superior in entertainment value to many.

Yes, you're absolutely right, there is a lot more to Elite than just fighting with other players and it all can be easily done in open. Ok maybe not the Robigo run and collecting mats at davs hope can be a little sketchy in open but I run cargo in open all the time with zero issues and I'm on many, many kill on sight lists.