Combat/Analysis modes --> Combat/Exploration/Mining modes?

[NeilF]

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Two fire groups: not at all. Not in any reasonable suggestion. For me it boils down to this:
- Group A for "searching": prospector limpets plus pulse wave scanner.
- Group B for "mining". For surface mining, you have mining lasers and the abrasion blaster there. For core mining, it's still the abrasion blaster, but now combined with the seismic charge launcher.
- Group C for collector limpets. You switch there once a while, if you have to restart them. Then you return to the first two groups.
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Separate from that, you have your weapons on the same groups, but in combat mode. (I actually think that at some time I have to test the mining lance. That one might be an oddball here. But who actually uses that one? )
Having both methods of mining at hand is inefficient. And yes, I skipped the subsurface tool. It currently is not really worth it. But if you have the hardpoint and want to carry it, there's still one fire button free in group C.
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So based on that, what would another mode bring to the table? Group A would instead be on the other mode. So instead of "toggle previous group, trigger, toggle next group" you would go "toggle previous mode, trigger, toggle next mode". It's the same number of inputs. It wouldn't save time. But instead of one button "toggle mode" we currently have, we need two buttons for previous and next mode. If there's only one "switch through modes" button, then it'll be one extra key press in there. Or if the order is unfortunate for your current need, two extra.
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I can imagine a number of additional things to do, then this suggestion would actually turn into a useful tool. I am not arguing against that. Perhaps you even assume that these things should also be done. But currently I just see that some more basic things, e.g. a clear firegroup separation based on the modes, is not in place yet. We still have those warning messages and all that nonsense. So in my eyes, this needs to be sorted out first. Only once these things are in order, yet another mode can really be considered.
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Understood, and no doubt it comes down to ones own preferred way of "working". When I'm mining, I flick for example between the following fire groups, in effect for the states of mining:-

Group 1 - Purely for finding that next target
A - PWA
B - Prospector Limpets

Group 2 - I'm legacy mining so want easy access to limpets too
A - Mining Lasers
B - Collector Limpets

Group 3 - Might want limpets easily to hand
A - Abrasion Blaster
B - Collector Limpets

Group 4 - Requires a bit more time/effort/thought
A - Sub-Surface Missile
B - Seismic Charges​

Now, once I've finished in the proposed Mining Mode and move to Combat or Exploration modes, those would have their own FireGroup definitions, none of which would need any of the above mapped.

And ideally, as also mentioned, the Mining Mode would also have a few dedicated HUD eliments specifically for use for mining, for example to maybe give Prospector Limpet information on the HUD in a more friendly fashion than buried in a side panel.

Spoiler

Note: I'm still toying with legacy mining while doing new mining which brings us to this:-

Group 1 - Purely for finding that next target
A - PWA
B - Prospector Limpets

Group 2 - I blindly legacy mine while doing Surface Deposits
A - Abrasion Blaster
B - Mining Lasers

Group 3 - Requires a bit more time/effort/thought
A - Sub-Surface Missile
B - Seismic Charges

Group 4 - Dedicate Limpets
A - Collector Limpets (module 1)
B - Collector Limpets (module 2)​

 

[Sylow]

Now, once I've finished in the proposed Mining Mode and move to Combat or Exploration modes, those would have their own FireGroup definitions, none of which would need any of the above mapped.

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We fully agree there. But mining tools already now are basically on the side of the analysis mode. My point is that the current combat vs. analysis mode would already do the job, would it be upgraded just a little bit.
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[NeilF]

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We fully agree there. But mining tools already now are basically on the side of the analysis mode. My point is that the current combat vs. analysis mode would already do the job, would it be upgraded just a little bit.
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Agreed... But:-
1) Dedicated HUD elements might make it useful.
2) In SC, the only modes would be Combat & Exploration (Analysis). Out of SC, the only modes would be Combat & Mining <-- Unless I've overlooked something and therefore being a numpty?

 

[Myou]

Understood, and no doubt it comes down to ones own preferred way of "working". When I'm mining, I flick for example between the following fire groups, in effect for the states of mining:-

Group 1 - Purely for finding that next target
A - PWA
B - Prospector Limpets

Group 2 - I'm legacy mining so want easy access to limpets too
A - Mining Lasers
B - Collector Limpets

Group 3 - Might want limpets easily to hand
A - Abrasion Blaster
B - Collector Limpets

Group 4 - Requires a bit more time/effort/thought
A - Sub-Surface Missile
B - Seismic Charges​

Consider the following: If we'd change analys mode to just be a secondary set of firegroups, you could set it up so you only ever need 2 button presses at most (directly neighbouring ones can be accessed with just 1!) to access what you need.

Whereas with your proposal id need up to 3 to access what id need, to toggle between modes, nevermind other modes i dont want or need (exploration f.e), which id need to cycle trough aswell...
Bonus: It needs 2 keybinds less also, because instead of cycle forward/backwards for both mode and firegroup you'd only need switch group/set buttons.

 

[NeilF]

Consider the following: If we'd change analys mode to just be a secondary set of firegroups, you could set it up so you only ever need 2 button presses at most (directly neighbouring ones can be accessed with just 1!) to access what you need.



Whereas with your proposal id need up to 3 to access what id need, to toggle between modes, nevermind other modes i dont want or need (exploration f.e), which id need to cycle trough aswell...

But then where would your exploration related binding go? Where would your combat related bindings go? And HUD specific differences?

Being able to flick between Combat, Exploration (Analysis) and Mining modes means your firegroups could be specific to those activities, and the HUD could be adapted to those activities.

Note: In SC you'd only have access to Combat & Exploration (Analysis) modes. While not in Super Cruise you'd only have access to Combat and Mining modes. Unless I'm overlooking something?

 

[Myou]

Im not sure if i follow? FSS is firegroup independ, combat related bindings outside of weapons got firegroup independ bindings aswell. And we're talking about a hypotetical mining ship right, which wouldnt be using a DSS or any of the scanners aside from the PWA, right? If you wanted to have literally everything in your ship you'd just extend the firegroups as we do currently - C D E... etc. (Though id not see why you would do this.)

What HUD specific differences would you need? This blue/orange thing? Who cares. And if theres any overlays you'd want, why would they need to be in firegroups? -> put into the functions display.


SC is a whole different beast because you dont actually have access to any of your modules there, besides a select few (some scanners, interdictor, heatsinks) so the modes there are a whole new level of moot. Combat mode entirely only for the interdictor is frankly, dumb, especially if other modes would pervent the use of a interdictor, neccesiating the use of combat mode...
And here we go again, me wondering why we even got this mode nonsense in the first place....

 

[Myou]

The point is: Adding extra modes just adds to the already existing clunk, neccessiating even more switching between firegroups and modes. This is something we need to avoid, considering elite as whole is beyond tolerable levels of clunk already.

A extra set of firegroups would, while not fix, be a bandaid cutting the needed inputs to do anything down by as much as half. Adding more modes means theres more to cycle trough = more clunk.




Essentially, id rather have a universal solution that fits general gameplay and streamlines more instead of adding extra modes specific to activities.

 

[NeilF]

The point is: Adding extra modes just adds to the already existing clunk, neccessiating even more switching between firegroups and modes. This is something we need to avoid, considering elite as whole is beyond tolerable levels of clunk already.

A extra set of firegroups would, while not fix, be a bandaid cutting the needed inputs to do anything down by as much as half. Adding more modes means theres more to cycle trough = more clunk.




Essentially, id rather have a universal solution that fits general gameplay and streamlines more instead of adding extra modes specific to activities.

"A extra set of firegroups would, while not fix, be a bandaid cutting the needed inputs to do anything down by as much as half. Adding more modes means theres more to cycle trough = more clunk."

Let's consider this statement. If in effect firegroup mappings could be specific to each mode, and a mining mode was added?... So while exploring a planet looking for hotspots, am I the least bit interested in the 3-4 fire group mappings I have for mining related tools? Do I want to be bothered by them? Indeed if I want to flick to the couple of weapons I have, do I want to be confused by 4-5 fire groups I have for exploration and/or mining purposes?

So I then go into my hotspot, am I interested in my exploration or combat fire groups specifically while mining? Because if I were to enter the suggested mining mode, I'd only have dedicated firegroups (as defined by me) for mining. No exploration or weapon mappings (fire groups) to trough or clunk through.

And while exploring and looking for new hotspots in exploration mode, no weapons or mining related mappings (fire groups) to trough or clunk through.

Hmmm...

 

[Chaparral]

I do think it's odd that mining tools which are mounted on hardpoints are used in discovery mode - but no biggie. Void Opals make everything ok.

 

[mr.wolfie]

You ALREADY have dedicated firegroups. There was no need for "modes" at all.
What we could do with is extra key binds for more triggers. I've got SIX buttons on my mouse, how many can I use to pull triggers in firegroups? two.

So, I'm flying around with my discovery setup, when I'm attacked. I switch modes to combat, and get spammed about something that doesn't work in combat modes - I KNOW ALREADY!!
I switch modes to do some scanning, I get spammed about how the SRV cannon doesn't work in that mode... I G KNOW!!

MODES are rubbish.
FIREGROUPS should be all you need.

 

[NeilF]

You ALREADY have dedicated firegroups. There was no need for "modes" at all.
What we could do with is extra key binds for more triggers. I've got SIX buttons on my mouse, how many can I use to pull triggers in firegroups? two.

So, I'm flying around with my discovery setup, when I'm attacked. I switch modes to combat, and get spammed about something that doesn't work in combat modes - I KNOW ALREADY!!
I switch modes to do some scanning, I get spammed about how the SRV cannon doesn't work in that mode... I G KNOW!!

MODES are rubbish.
FIREGROUPS should be all you need.

So, while mining, I have the FOUR firegroups defined. For exploration another. For combat another. So I have porentially SIX firegroups to flick through all the time!

But given the proposed modes, with firegroup definable for each, while in Exploration I have ONE firegroup. While in Combat mode, I have ONE firegroup, and while mining I have the dedicate FOUR to worry about

Seems to trim things and rationalise things down quite sensibly to me...

 

[Myou]

"A extra set of firegroups would, while not fix, be a bandaid cutting the needed inputs to do anything down by as much as half. Adding more modes means theres more to cycle trough = more clunk."

Let's consider this statement. If in effect firegroup mappings could be specific to each mode, and a mining mode was added?... So while exploring a planet looking for hotspots, am I the least bit interested in the 3-4 fire group mappings I have for mining related tools? Do I want to be bothered by them? Indeed if I want to flick to the couple of weapons I have, do I want to be confused by 4-5 fire groups I have for exploration and/or mining purposes?

So I then go into my hotspot, am I interested in my exploration or combat fire groups specifically while mining? Because if I were to enter the suggested mining mode, I'd only have dedicated firegroups (as defined by me) for mining. No exploration or weapon mappings (fire groups) to trough or clunk through.

And while exploring and looking for new hotspots in exploration mode, no weapons or mining related mappings (fire groups) to trough or clunk through.

Hmmm...

I dont think you understand. Clicking one time less while mining but causing an extra click whenever you do anything else is a bad trade. Hence i said id rather have a universal solution for all activities. Extra mode for mining and then x y z etc is only gonna cause more clutter and clunk than it fixes. Especially if we cant disable those modes entirely, especially if those modes all come with restrictions on what modules can work while you're in that mode... ESPECIALLY if the modes dont (at the very minimum) omit other modes firegroups.

 

[NeilF]

I dont think you understand. Clicking one time less while mining but causing an extra click whenever you do anything else is a bad trade. Hence i said id rather have a universal solution for all activities. Extra mode for mining and then x y z etc is only gonna cause more clutter and clunk than it fixes. Especially if we cant disable those modes entirely, especially if those modes all come with restrictions on what modules can work while you're in that mode... ESPECIALLY if the modes dont (at the very minimum) omit other modes firegroups.

I don't think you understand. Doing a single click when you want to start mining, and another when you finish (eg: 40 mins later), to then have firegroups dedicate solely to mining sounds good to me!

And likewise, while exploring or even more importantly while in combat, only have having exactly what you need assigned in your firegroups sounds good to me. ie: Do I want to risk stepping through my exploration based fire group while in combat? Isn't it better for it not to even be there?

You typically would sit in a mode for a period of time... Not be flicking betweem them. IMHO

note: Unless I'm overlooking something? While in SC, only Combat and Exploration (Analysis) modes would be availabe. While not in SC, only Combat and Mining modes would be available.