Why is Combat still a Low Paying High-Risk activity?

[TrailBlazer 143]

Funny thing is as an experienced player I don’t need the cash from combat. I suspect many others are in the same boat.

Engineering materials, BGS effects, garnering favor, and affecting the political landscape are much more valuable to me.

Surely credits aren’t the highest form of value in Elite?

Well, I can't exactly argue the value of credits to a single Player as that's an opinion and we both won't get anywhere on that subject.

 

[MottiKhan]

Low reward and high risk? I'll have you know that I made almost 1 mil cr over the last week and didn't die once.

Ima spend it all on cookies. Mmm, cookies.

 

[Dillon Fallon]

There isn't an "actual amount per hour". Putting a definite number on what should pay what isn't going to get anyone anywhere. Instead, it should be "what should pay what compared to -insert co-exsisting activity- and, with factual evidence, why.

Fair point, I'll accept that my original question is too vague. Is an issue that we don't see high enough bounties on elite npcs, given what some players can rack up. Also should some allowance be given to the inherently dull nature of long distance passenger missions- are those prices inflated because if combat paid the same, passenger missions could become a redundant feature.

 

[Morbad]

Surely credits aren’t the highest form of value in Elite?

Nope, and quite deliberately so.

Frontier saw they had ruined the credit pseudoeconomy, but also saw that fixing it via the most straightforward method would cause many tears from people who cared more for numbers on a screen than what those numbers could do, so they came up with Engineering. Bam! Credits no longer the primary currency; every keeps their beloved, meaningless, numbers; new economy encourages further play. No one's happy, Frontier wins.

 

[TrailBlazer 143]

But traders go through the same hoops to get well paid trading missions.

Well, yes and no.

Traders don't have to do the missions in order to make decent amount of credits trading. There is a Definate amount that the Trader is going to get.
But Combat Pilots in RESs won't make as much, shooting down ships based on their skill level is RNG and the size of the ships that spawn is RNG as well. this can throw off the "groove" of a Combat Pilot's "credit flow". And don't get me started on Super Cruise Bounties.

But, on the other hand, when traders DO go through all the hoops for good paying missions, they get paid WAY WAY more than the Combat Pilots. Passengers, Metallic Runs are far ahead in pay than any assassination mission, or a lot faster to complete than the time it takes to complete a massacre mission, you know?

 

[TrailBlazer 143]

Fair point, I'll accept that my original question is too vague. Is an issue that we don't see high enough bounties on elite npcs, given what some players can rack up. Also should some allowance be given to the inherently dull nature of long distance passenger missions- are those prices inflated because if combat paid the same, passenger missions could become a redundant feature.

I agree. I wish that HAZ RESs spawned Big Elite Ships WAY WAY WAY more often. RNG can really throw a monkey wrench into a good payout or a fun time for a Combat Player.

I have a phrase for this. When you rely absolutly on RNG for a good experience, the good experience can be absolutly ruined by RNG.

 

[Han Zulu]

Well, yes and no.

Traders don't have to do the missions in order to make decent amount of credits trading. There is a Definate amount that the Trader is going to get.

Depends on the traders skill, knowledge, and information, because you can trade with loss as well if you don't know what to do. And even with the skills, it's not astronomical amounts you're making from it. Besides, you make good amounts taking out pirates in res extraction sites, and without very little effort. No missions needed there either.

But Combat Pilots in RESs won't make as much, shooting down ships based on their skill level is RNG and the size of the ships that spawn is RNG as well. this can throw off the "groove" of a Combat Pilot's "credit flow". And don't get me started on Super Cruise Bounties.

I made a couple of millions yesterday in less than an hour, so I think it's fairly equal. But that's me. And I'm a low skilled combat pilot.

But, on the other hand, when traders DO go through all the hoops for good paying missions, they get paid WAY WAY more than the Combat Pilots. Passengers, Metallic Runs are far ahead in pay than any assassination mission, or a lot faster to complete than the time it takes to complete a massacre mission, you know?

Yeah. I somewhat agree with this. It does take a lot more effort for kill missions to make same or less credits. I don't agree with your earlier view of risk v reward, but I do agree to effort v reward ratio. In the hour of combat I made 1+ mil, but I can easily make lot more with a few or a single trade mission.

So, I do agree with you to some extent, but more so regarding effort than risk. It's like those stupid delivery missions to Colonia that are underpaid. Hours and days of work for a few million, no thanks.

 

[Aakkonen]

Well maybe its more or less rooted on realism? RL soldiers get bad pay for the risks. Its the gun sellers, narcotics smugglers and mining industry where the big bucks are ;}

 

[Mohrgan]

Simply, the OP inflates the risk to combat pilots, and refutes the risk to other professions. Resorting to the unsupported stereotypes of the risk free, shieldless trader, and the poor, beset upon, combat Commander. His assertions just don't square with the reality I see.

 

[fus roh potato]

There is supposedly a way in which you can get combat to almost pay -comparatively- to cargo, but it requires going really out of your way to find a system with a lot of factions all handing out pirate kill orders to the same faction. This is really rare and non standard, but I well definitely agree that payouts for combat are horrendous.

Non-combat
Mining - 170 m/hr using a fast ship and selling to the right place (may not always be available but should net 100 mil/hr when the market falls)
Wing Source - 140 m/hr with a wing. This is approximate based on what my friends and I have done. Finding stations that provide enough missions for this is not hard.
Exploration - 100 m/hr, unverified but I keep hearing there are certain paths to follow and scan to rake in huge sums, but this requires a high exploration rank.
Transport - 80-100 m/hr Is supposedly the Robigo standard but I haven't personally verified this one either.

Combat
MultiFaction Pirate Mission Stacking - 100 m/hr. Requires a system in which pirate hunting factions are numerous but pirate factions are minimum. This requires a lot of hours investment for a session and significantly more hours to hunt down an appropriate system.
Pirate Massacre one-at-a-time - 30 m/hr
Assassinations - 20m m/hr, possibly a little more when stacking wing missions with wing mates.
Conflict Zones - 1.2 m/hr, provides virtually no incentive to participate in over the inf, rep, mat, and credit rewards provided by missions.

 

[fus roh potato]

Simply, the OP inflates the risk to combat pilots, and refutes the risk to other professions. Resorting to the unsupported stereotypes of the risk free, shieldless trader, and the poor, beset upon, combat Commander. His assertions just don't square with the reality I see.

He didn't inflate them at all. The other professions are zero risk because combat is not required. You can wake out, silent run, and break interdiction easily. Combat requires kills which require vulnerability, especially in combat zones where suddenly 5 ships can drop in and start landing heavy hits on a commander.

 

[TrailBlazer 143]

Simply, the OP inflates the risk to combat pilots, and refutes the risk to other professions. Resorting to the unsupported stereotypes of the risk free, shieldless trader, and the poor, beset upon, combat Commander. His assertions just don't square with the reality I see.

That's not true to any degree.

I understand that there is risk to other activities, that's stupid to say that there isn't.
What I'm saying is Combat is High-Risk, due to combat situations, the amount of credits it takes to FULLY deck out a combat ship and the rebuy it cost if you lose it as a result. Then stack that up to the Higher-Paying Lower-Risk activites like exploring, deep core mining and trading, include the extreamly lower costs it takes to build those ships and the rebuy, it just doesn't add up logically, you get what I'm saying?

 

[Mohrgan]

He didn't inflate them at all. The other professions are zero risk because combat is not required. You can wake out, silent run, and break interdiction easily. Combat requires kills which require vulnerability, especially in combat zones where suddenly 5 ships can drop in and start landing heavy hits on a commander.

Except that all of that stuffs in your first sentence applies equally to combat pilots, and in a properly kitted out combat ship the CZ's and H-RES hardly pose a threat. Because of all that stuffs in your 1st sentence.

 

[Mohrgan]

That's not true to any degree.

I understand that there is risk to other activities, that's stupid to say that there isn't.
What I'm saying is Combat is High-Risk, due to combat situations, the amount of credits it takes to FULLY deck out a combat ship and the rebuy it cost if you lose it as a result. Then stack that up to the Higher-Paying Lower-Risk activites like exploring, deep core mining and trading, include the extreamly lower costs it takes to build those ships and the rebuy, it just doesn't add up logically, you get what I'm saying?

I refer you to my last post on the subject. There is no more risk in combat, than there is in trading or exploring. Outfitted properly for each atcivity makes our ships unassailable by NPC's in the overall.

 

[Sooden]

I will remember that...

i think they don't wanna say as it points out a huge issue with the game, that managed to survie the last attack... shield

My guess would be,
- build a shield tank Imperial Cutter
- give it some cargo
- go to a haz res...
- park it up and get into a fighter, and hide out of range in cold mode (as many models off as you can)... then go afk

add a power-play benefit/ mission on there was well, free money.

added, i know it works, when they didn't agree to nerf the shield, i made a shield tank anaconda and did the same in combat zone (bad me, but had to test it)

 

[Dillon Fallon]

... the amount of credits it takes to FULLY deck out a combat ship and the rebuy it cost if you lose it as a result...

The crux of the problem for someone wanting to be a combat pilot. An extreme example is setting up a cutter. 6A shields for a trader: 15 mil. 8A shields for combat: 150 mil. Admittedly I've been looking at this from how the game is for me now, but big money 180 ton cargo runs are far more accessible to a newer player. A trader Python can be paid off in less than 10 metallic cargo runs. How long to make profit on a combat focused FDL?

People may say the game is not combat focused, but if a new player does want to go down the route of having an Eagle, Vulture, FDL/Mamba (these ships exist- combat is therefore an option), what are their options for money? Or does someone have to accept they are hamstrung by playing the game this way.

 

[TrailBlazer 143]

I refer you to my last post on the subject. There is no more risk in combat, than there is in trading or exploring. Outfitted properly for each atcivity makes our ships unassailable by NPC's in the overall.

With that logic, you're assuming EVERY PLAYER knows how to play elite efficiently and know exactly how to outfit their ships no matter the situation and that not the case at all.

There are TONS upon TONS of tutorials both on here and on Youtube to teach players and they are still being made. On top of that, players, to this day, are still asking questions and finding new things out about the game.
Top that off with new players joining every month tells me that not EVERY PLAYER is efficient and should be compensated for their efforts accordingly. If any profession becomes second nature to a player than that's good for them and, In which I would say, they should be paid more often for being good at their activity and completing them faster and more effiecent than other players in the same activity.

but you can't lump all players into one "Elite Knowledge" group because that's never going to be the case. And if that was the case, the pay would be WAY lower across the board because everyone could do it perfectly.
Basically, I'm against the idea of nerfing pay for an activity because there are those that are good at it.

 

[Mohrgan]

The crux of the problem for someone wanting to be a combat pilot. An extreme example is setting up a cutter. 6A shields for a trader: 15 mil. 8A shields for combat: 150 mil. Admittedly I've been looking at this from how the game is for me now, but big money 180 ton cargo runs are far more accessible to a newer player. A trader Python can be paid off in less than 10 metallic cargo runs. How long to make profit on a combat focused FDL?

People may say the game is not combat focused, but if a new player does want to go down the route of having an Eagle, Vulture, FDL/Mamba (these ships exist- combat is therefore an option), what are their options for money? Or does someone have to accept they are hamstrung by playing the game this way.

As a player that has acquired his 10 ships through a combat focus, I have found no trouble paying my way. Admittedly, I have no interest in the large pad ships, but I can have any ship I want. My experience shows me that combat ships, on the whole are less expensive with respect to 'hull' costs. I can make pockets full of credits on a 3 to 3.5 mil credit re-buy. I don;t see much risk at all.

 

[Mohrgan]

With that logic, you're assuming EVERY PLAYER knows how to play elite efficiently and know exactly how to outfit their ships no matter the situation and that not the case at all.

There are TONS upon TONS of tutorials both on here and on Youtube to teach players and they are stibeing made. On top of that, players, to this day, are still asking questions and finding new things out about the game.
Top that off with new players joining every month tells me that not EVERY PLAYER is efficient and should be compensated for their efforts accordingly. If any profession becomes second nature to a player than that's good for them and, In which I would say, they should be paid more often for being good at their activity and completing them faster and more effiecent than other players in the same activity.

but you can't lump all players into one "Elite Knowledge" group because that's never going to be the case. And if that was the case, the pay would be WAY lower across the board because everyone could do it perfectly.

The risk in any of the professions will work along the same curve. The more experienced you are in trading, the less risk you see, but you trade in higher values of cargo, and ship. And, I did qualify my point as being related to an established Commander, but you can't remove the risk of making a misjudgement or mistake in any profession. I just don;t think combat Commanders have a greater economic, nor material risk in E|D.

 

[TrailBlazer 143]

As a player that has acquired his 10 ships through a combat focus, I have found no trouble paying my way. Admittedly, I have no interest in the large pad ships, but I can have any ship I want. My experience shows me that combat ships, on the whole are less expensive with respect to 'hull' costs. I can make pockets full of credits on a 3 to 3.5 mil credit re-buy. I don;t see much risk at all.

The problem isn't the money, it's how the pay is compared to the other activities. Factoring in Risk, Cost to outfit, Rebuy and Knowledge.

You might not have a problem and I'm not saying that you should. I'm only pointing out the inconsistent error in payout for professions in the game. The math doesn't make sense to me.

Can we agree that Combat is on the lower tier of the paid activities in the game compared to the rest? That's my issue.