Newcomer / Intro Is there an "end" to how far you can go?

[Tyres O'Flaherty]

Just browsing for distant exploration curiousness, I came across Oevasy SG-Y d0 which, apparently, is the furthest anyone has explored - and it takes some getting to!

It has me wondering: is there an "edge" to the EDverse that you hit preventing further travel? I'm sceptical of infinity.

 

[bitstorm]

It's really difficult to answer because the question can be interpreted in many ways.

At the end of the day we have no idea how it's been implemented, given it's sitting in computer memory yeah you'd imagine there'd be some technical hard limit, but really you have to ask what is "distance" in the stellar forge representation when you're talking about procedurally generated bits in memory. Yes you can probably say there is a limit but I don't think anyone except the devs could say that with 100% certainty.

Another context might be what's presented on the galaxy map, that's certainly boxed off. There are systems that exist that cannot be "selected" and therefore can be seen but never be jumped to, there are some around 15KLY below the galaxy you can click but the view snaps back.

Then there's the soft jump range limit, there are certainly systems that are unreachable due to ship jump range and are likely never to be reachable.

 

[aRJay]

Yes at some point the stars at the exterior of the galaxy are going to get more than our maximum jump range apart, and there we will be stuck unless of course you wanted to try to reach our satellite galaxies in super cruise but that would take over 50 years which could lead to issues with hull and paint degradation not to mention fuel supplies, I suspect intergalactic space is outside the Fuel Rats franchise area.

At that border you will have course find the 'fun' systems that you can reach with a boosted jump but won't be able to return from.

 

[Chris Simon]

You both didn't answer OP's question, though.

No, there's no border of playable "area". You can jump to the furthest star you are able, and then supercruise away from it until you run out of fuel. That is the limit.

 

[Lysette]

There is most certainly a limit, because the galaxy representation is structured in an Octree - which outer borders are that of a cube and those are the technical limits. And yes, Chris, the practical limit is most likely what you said, because it is more likely to run out of fuel supercruising into the void than to reach the outer edges of that octree cube.

 

[Tyres O'Flaherty]

There is most certainly a limit, because the galaxy representation is structured in an Octree - which outer borders are that of a cube and those are the technical limits. And yes, Chris, the practical limit is most likely what you said, because it is more likely to run out of fuel supercruising into the void than to reach the outer edges of that octree cube.

Assuming we're not dealing with a basic Euclidean geometric universe and given that all geomathematics is based on the hideously limiting notion that one plus one is two and not that one and two are in fact the same thing observed from different precepts the theoretical shape must therefore be a polydridocdecahooeyhedronahexasexahedroadiconadibidollyhedecadodron.

Didn't the original Elite have the ability to leap using and intergalactic hyperjump?

 

[Lysette]

Assuming we're not dealing with a basic Euclidean geometric universe and given that all geomathematics is based on the hideously limiting notion that one plus one is two and not that one and two are in fact the same thing observed from different precepts the theoretical shape must therefore be a polydridocdecahooeyhedronahexasexahedroadiconadibidollyhedecadodron.

Didn't the original Elite have the ability to leap using and intergalactic hyperjump?

Well the information about the technical side of how the galaxy is structured in ED is from FDev themselves - there is a video about it - let me look for the video

[video=youtube;Vz3nhCykZNw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vz3nhCykZNw[/video]

An octree is nothing special though, it is a commonly used spatial structure, which is as well used to render a scene in most games, because it allows for a very easy implementation of LOD and to figure out what is inside the view frustum and what isn't very quickly.

 

[Para Handy]

.........

Didn't the original Elite have the ability to leap using and intergalactic hyperjump?

Yes but that was because of the limitations of the computer system - you could only have so many star systems - so you had to jump into a new "galaxy" (load a new set of data from your drive).

In effect the Milky Way in E D is all potentially reachable but "halo" clusters, companion galaxies (large and small Magellanic Clouds) and further galaxies (inc Andromeda) are not able to be reached*, even if you had hacked the game to give you amazing FSD distances, since they are not actually modelled.


* Until you find Raxxla.

 

[Mo Ronik]

I'll venture a guess and say getting to other galaxies will be in some future release. 2021 perhaps... And we'll need a galaxy hopper ship to do it only available after you reach some future rank in a new superpower yet to be detailed. How's that for story line?

 

[Mo Ronik]

But, regarding the question about how far we can go now it might be a cool experiment, if you have the credits, to outfit the largest cargo carrying ship with fuel tanks then jump to a star that is on the edge of the galaxy that is also scoopable. Spend an hour scooping fuel to fill all the tanks up and then super cruise directly away from galaxy center and see how far you can go before running out of fuel. Probably be an all nighter. Go with an A rated life support and set your alarm clock to wake you up every hour to see the progress.

 

[Chris Simon]

But, regarding the question about how far we can go now it might be a cool experiment, if you have the credits, to outfit the largest cargo carrying ship with fuel tanks then jump to a star that is on the edge of the galaxy that is also scoopable. Spend an hour scooping fuel to fill all the tanks up and then super cruise directly away from galaxy center and see how far you can go before running out of fuel. Probably be an all nighter. Go with an A rated life support and set your alarm clock to wake you up every hour to see the progress.

Well, let's say you can keep your fuel consumption around 1t/h. (I actually don't know if a T9 is capable of that)
T9 filled to the brim can carry 852t of fuel, so it can stay in supercruise for 852 hours.
Speed of light is 1,078,929,169km/h, that is 919,247,651,988km/852h at speed of light.
Max FSD speed of the ship is 2001c

So the distance you cover in 852 hours at 2001c is roughly 1,839,414,551,627,988km that is 1,1 quadrillion miles or 194.4LY

in other words - about one neutron boost jump worth of distance.
(btw. 852 hours is more than a month, so "wake up every hour to check progress" would probably drove you mad by the end of the experiment. )

Nah. I'll pass.

 

[Mo Ronik]

Well then... far more than an all nighter! The world may never know....

 

[Chris Simon]

Well then... far more than an all nighter! The world may never know....

I would REALLY like to believe there's nobody crazy enough to try it, but...

 

[aRJay]

I would REALLY like to believe there's nobody crazy enough to try it, but...

Of course somebody will try this, if they haven't already, after all I believe people have tried to reach Sol from Proxima Centauri that way to try to get around the permit.

 

[Strangepork]

Just browsing for distant exploration curiousness, I came across Oevasy SG-Y d0 which, apparently, is the furthest anyone has explored - and it takes some getting to!

It has me wondering: is there an "edge" to the EDverse that you hit preventing further travel? I'm sceptical of infinity.

Go further, can you?

 

[Strangepork]

I'll venture a guess and say getting to other galaxies will be in some future release. 2021 perhaps... And we'll need a galaxy hopper ship to do it only available after you reach some future rank in a new superpower yet to be detailed. How's that for story line?

Man this game is fun!

 

[Caliber_az]

Well, let's say you can keep your fuel consumption around 1t/h. (I actually don't know if a T9 is capable of that)
T9 filled to the brim can carry 852t of fuel, so it can stay in supercruise for 852 hours.
Speed of light is 1,078,929,169km/h, that is 919,247,651,988km/852h at speed of light.
Max FSD speed of the ship is 2001c

So the distance you cover in 852 hours at 2001c is roughly 1,839,414,551,627,988km that is 1,1 quadrillion miles or 194.4LY

in other words - about one neutron boost jump worth of distance.
(btw. 852 hours is more than a month, so "wake up every hour to check progress" would probably drove you mad by the end of the experiment. )

Nah. I'll pass.

Dont forget you could probably add another 50 percent if have a buddy fly half way with you and then use fuel limpets to fill you back up. There may be a even more efficient way to extend that more but this at least works to extend that distance.

If it can be done someone will do it............. probably not me but someone.

Caliber

 

[Lysette]

I'll venture a guess and say getting to other galaxies will be in some future release. 2021 perhaps... And we'll need a galaxy hopper ship to do it only available after you reach some future rank in a new superpower yet to be detailed. How's that for story line?

The already existing galaxy map lasts not just for this generation, but as well for the next 2 coming generations - there is no need for a second galaxy, this one is already far beyond what can be explored by just a few million players - and this is already assuming that there are millions playing (I doubt that though, sci-fi space MMO is a niche). But let it be a million - how long will it take you to explore your share of 400,000 star systems - this is your share, which you would have to discover and explore, and if everyone of that million would do his/her duty, to explore those 400,000 star systems, this galaxy could be explored. Let's further say to discover and explore a system would just take 15 minutes each - 4 per hour - so this takes 100,000 hours play time - let's further say one would actually have the time to play 50hrs/week, then this would take 2000 weeks or 38.5 years. But I guess most do not have 50 hrs/week and might already be middle aged - so this will not be done in the lifetime of these players ever - so like I said, there is no need for another galaxy.

 

[Chris Simon]

The already existing galaxy map lasts not just for this generation, but as well for the next 2 coming generations - there is no need for a second galaxy, this one is already far beyond what can be explored by just a few million players - and this is already assuming that there are millions playing (I doubt that though, sci-fi space MMO is a niche). But let it be a million - how long will it take you to explore your share of 400,000 star systems - this is your share, which you would have to discover and explore, and if everyone of that million would do his/her duty, to explore those 400,000 star systems, this galaxy could be explored. Let's further say to discover and explore a system would just take 15 minutes each - 4 per hour - so this takes 100,000 hours play time - let's further say one would actually have the time to play 50hrs/week, then this would take 2000 weeks or 38.5 years. But I guess most do not have 50 hrs/week and might already be middle aged - so this will not be done in the lifetime of these players ever - so like I said, there is no need for another galaxy.

It's a big place.

 

[Conde]

Yes but that was because of the limitations of the computer system - you could only have so many star systems - so you had to jump into a new "galaxy" (load a new set of data from your drive).

My Commodore 64 version used an 8 minute cassette tape load on startup! So all 8 of the "Galaxies" were somehow squeezed in by David & Ian without further loading as I recall, removing the tape during play did not affect the game.

Although it's of course going to be impossible to explore every last system in the Milky Way in our lifetimes, why would we want to? It will get boring pretty fast after you seen 5000 almost identical stars packed tightly near the centre. Like every human endeavour throughout history it's the dream of reaching what was considered at the time to be unreachable that drives us on.

That's why I can see a valid Thargoid and/or Guardian narrative to enable the return of Galactic Hyperdrive to a procedurally generated Andromeda Spiral, or one of the much smaller and closer satellite galaxies if it's more realistic for FD to implement.