the FSS, watching paint dry....

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-VR- Max Factor

-VR- Max Factor
Scytale said:
The FSS does the "exploring", not the tourist pilot.
At a standstill. Point and click the blobs and..."exploration" is done !
Coooool !
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Discovering something is not the same as exploration. With the FSS, you discover stuff which then gives you reasons to explore that stuff.

If you call the FSS exploration then so was the ADS. The difference between the two is that one is active and takes some time to achieve the other is a five second press of a button.
 

-VR- Max Factor

-VR- Max Factor
Riverside said:
If it did "break the whole reason for using the new FSS" that would be justification for the ADS being removed, but it doesn't. You just don't fit one (nor would Darkfyre99) and your discovery process remains as it is right now, post 3.3.

The player that chooses to fit one (me) gets an initial reveal of targetable bodies and a populated system map just as before, the rest is covered by the new process including pointing the ship at them and scanning or flying towards them if they are far away. Or using the FSS Scanner Screen to DSS them which would require using the 'hunt the blob' mechanism just as they do now. They would also be using up a slot, and would be carrying the mass & power requirements of the module (as before 3.3).

So the player that goes without identifies and resolves on one go, the player with the ADS identifies with the ADS and resolves either with the FSS or by targeting the unexplored body and travelling close enough to resolve it.


So which part of this do you not like Max? It would be the best of both worlds with no downside.
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That's the issue. No downsides. There should always be downsides.
 

Riverside

Riverside
Old Duck said:
We all play different ways, but we all play in the same sandbox. This is why games like ED don't allow mods, whereas single-player games like Skyrim do - many which are basically cheats (kinda like the ADS).

The way I see it, I'm willing to compromise*, and I already have everything I want in these new exploration tools. Being stubborn and insisting your way or no way is not likely going to convince Frontier to change what they obviously thought was a good idea in the first place.

* you would think I'd know better by now....
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Why do you think those sandbox rules were changed? Do you suppose they were changed with good reason? That would be a reasonable assumption, but it isn't the case here. There was no need to change those sandbox rules, there was no benefit to removing the old stuff, all of the new stuff complements the old stuff nicely. Even the FSS adds to the old ADS & DSS combo by allowing detail scanning from a distance.
 
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Old Duck

Old Duck
DukeIronHand said:
116 pages eh?
Anything been solved or decided yet?

#firstworldproblems
This community has way too much time on their hands. All must be right with the world.
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A pot lecturing the kettles, unless you got your "Deadly" forum rating while simultaneously working in the soup kitchen feeding the homeless :p
 

Ian Skippy

Ian Skippy
askavir said:
Indeed, it's almost like videogame forums aren't somehow meant to debate the real world's most pressing issues.
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The 'anything solved or decided' bit is relevant though: this topic hasn't moved an inch since the first few pages, at all. Nor is there any interest in doing so. Compare that for example with https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/468931-Light-Fighters-are-in-a-weird-place where people are politely exchanging viewpoints, making suggestions and considering the views of others.
 

Wolf Starslayer

Wolf Starslayer
I know who does have the answer, FD. They record all sorts of metrics for the game ( some of which are shown on your own codex stats thingy ) and will know if more people are spending time exploring under the new system and by what ratio. Given 3-6mth they will also know if the change is sustained and if it is a positive one I doubt they will look to change anything.
 
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Old Duck

Old Duck
Riverside said:
Why do you think those sandbox rules were changed? Do you suppose they were changed with good reason?
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The idea that the ADS is too powerful was brought up in a few different threads long before Frontier announced the FSS. Here's just a sample:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/180494-Advanced-discovery-scanner-needs-a-nerf

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/447155-Why-we-should-say-goodbye-to-honk

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...u-consider-giving-up-on-the-infinite-honk-for

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...-infinite-range-but-it-was-too-late-to-fix-it

I'm not claiming these threads show unanimous support for "nerfing the honk", but I do think it answers your questions. I even remember ObsidianAnt discussing the ADS in one of his earlier videos, and while I don't remember his own opinion on the matter, he made it clear that some percentage of the community felt it was OP.
 

Cliché

Cliché
I'm posting in this thread just for posterity. ;)

I'm waiting for DWE2 to really try out the new exploration tools (and to finally create a holo-me character in the downtime).
 

[Diplomacy] Carnegie

[Diplomacy] Carnegie
Ian Skippy said:
The 'anything solved or decided' bit is relevant though: this topic hasn't moved an inch since the first few pages, at all. Nor is there any interest in doing so. Compare that for example with https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/468931-Light-Fighters-are-in-a-weird-place where people are politely exchanging viewpoints, making suggestions and considering the views of others.
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I'm not sure which thread you're reading, but THIS one has been full of suggestions, alternatives and compromises.

In fact, the only person NOT considering the viewpoints of others is YOU.
 

Riverside

Riverside
Old Duck said:
some percentage of the community felt it was OP.
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I appreciate the time you took to gather the links (I read most of those at the time) but here lies the rub: it isn't.

That people thought it was wasn't reality checked by the only people that were in a position to actually be able to, dev time has been needlessly wasted on work that neither generates new sales nor improves retention. There is no exploit having a separate module would not compensate for, and the 3.3 update would have been no less popular if the old modules were kept. The complete functionality of the ADS has been retained in the bubble, the removal of the modules that allow this same functionality (populated sysmap & list of [unexplored] targets on the HUD & Nav panel) was a pointless exercise that was only ever going to be divisive. And here we are.
 
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[Diplomacy] Carnegie

[Diplomacy] Carnegie
Julio Montega said:
Do i understand you correct,
that after entering FSS and honking,
you cannot target "unknown" bodies and fly to them?

If so that is an oversight, that should be easily corrected
without need for another module, as you can pinpoint the
mass shadow with ease by sensors.
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To confirm, honking in a system that has never been explored will not populate the System map or Nav Panel with targetable bodies.

You can discover them by parallax, or Darkfyre's patented method of using the FSS to identify the direction a body lies in, then looking for the corresponding dot in the skybox and flying the ship towards it.

These are the only ways to get around the limitations of the new functionality - hence this entire thread.
 

jasonbarron

jasonbarron
I see that emotions are still running hot on this topic. I've yet to actually even fire up the game and try the new patch, but I must say that the changes sound good on paper. Exploration was always tedious and unrewarding so any change is movement in the right direction.
 

Blackcompany

Banned
B
Julio Montega said:
Contrary to that the FSS adds the option to actively look for signals and analyze them,
you can always just honk and fly to the planets for passive resolving,
if the roving explorer is your style.

The FSS does not force anything on an explorer, it just adds to the list of tools,
without cluttering the ship, without module creep and finally a choice,
which even me got into exploring again a bit.
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First, hunting signals in a mini game is not, to me, exploring. Exploring means going to planets. Scanning them, using probes to map. Landing, if there is anything engaging to see. The FSS is not exploration, it's a 2D mobile style, bolt on mini game.

Secondly, the FSS is NOT optional for explorers. You literally cannot find bodies in undiscovered systems without it. That's the definition of mandatory.
 
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