It will definitely happen at some point, it's just common sense. At some point (soon) the number of different combinations of game+DLCs that need to be developed, tested and maintained across all the platforms will outstrip any potential profits from sales. Just look at how World of Warcraft deals with the same issue. It's had 7 (I think) major expansions, only the most recent of which is available for sale. Everything else is baseline. And it's fine.
Okay FDEV time to make elite fair..FOR EVERYONE!
- Thread starter CMDR Plexus Ironrot
- Start date
Just had a quite look at the store
Horizon is at 76% off
Elite Dangerous: Horizons - Season Pass
£19.99 £4.80
https://www.frontierstore.net/games/elite-dangerous-cat.html
For the record I paid £150 when there wasn't even a game.
I am not getting any commission to promote it but Thats less than the price of a skin! How does that sound?
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Alternatively, maybe they did think for longer than 10 seconds and realized that that would be problematic to say the least if you want non-Horizons to play with Horizons cmdrs in the same instance. Besides, it is completely absurd to pretend you need engineering to play the game versus NPCs. Never mind that people had three years or so to save up the whopping $6 they charge for Horizons.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/441340/Elite_Dangerous_Horizons_Season_Pass/
Rather than be grateful you get so much for six bucks, people complain they should get it for free? Get out of here man...
My bet is with the next DLC. So you always have 'latest DLC' and 'base game plus all previous DLC'.
Honestly yeah OP is right if a bit hyperbolic. For any new customer it's gonna feel kinda obnoxious to buy a new game and learn that you're missing half of it and basically need to buy it again or pay even more than you did for the so-called "base" game. It doesn't really matter what price each of the components sells for, it's the inherent automatic disappointment and sense of feeling a little cheated that you're going to experience. Elite is not like other games where you can buy the initial product and then decide later that you want "more." Horizons isn't just "more" it's mechanically and functionally a different game altogether. Probably better to not offer a purchase option which all but guarantees that a subset of your new customers' first impression of the game is going to be disappointment and frustration.
Yep, that's exactly what I'd expect to happen.
I'll even go one step further: when the next DLC launches, we'll have steam 'sales' where you can grab base+Horizons for free. Then, in 2020 or so, the core package becomes f2p full-time, and revenue switches to annual DLC + microtransactions.
It doesn't matter if it's £1.00 or £100.00, it's still PTW. And even at it's currently low price it might be difficult for some, especially if there are siblings who all want an account.
I was thinking how it might be possible to manage, but it's not easy...
You can't segregate assets because of wings: If a horizons player (H) and a base player (B) wing up and drop into an instance... How does the game decide whether or not to include DLC content? First in? Always the B player? But what if B joins the wing when H is already in an instance with DLC related content?
So do you prevent B and H players winging together? There's be saline leaks the likes of which would make Bethesda's BagGate look positively friendly.
If you make Horizons a free upgrade, there will also be salt.
So sure:
Problem is, whatever FDev do, there will be complaints. In another thread recently, some players plainly don't even believe that non-Horizons players even exist any more.
I was thinking how it might be possible to manage, but it's not easy...
You can't segregate assets because of wings: If a horizons player (H) and a base player (B) wing up and drop into an instance... How does the game decide whether or not to include DLC content? First in? Always the B player? But what if B joins the wing when H is already in an instance with DLC related content?
So do you prevent B and H players winging together? There's be saline leaks the likes of which would make Bethesda's BagGate look positively friendly.
If you make Horizons a free upgrade, there will also be salt.
So sure:
- Stop offering the base game for sale, that's a given. Make it the Deluxe only.
- Allow Horizons Upgrade for non-Horizons players.
- Privately approach non-Horizons players to see if there's a reason they've not upgraded, and depending on their activity in game (not PvP/PvE silly, I mean are they active a lot or occasional casual players), perhaps offer a one-time deal on a case by case basis*.
- Once everyone is on a level playing field, publish the next paid DLC and um... GOTO 1
Problem is, whatever FDev do, there will be complaints. In another thread recently, some players plainly don't even believe that non-Horizons players even exist any more.
This whole argument only exists because FD deviated from their original Engineers idea: interesting sidegrades to customize the ships. This was perceived as too grindy for not enough oomph, so they vastly reduced the grind and massively increased the effects gained. So then we complained that it isn't fair to get the things the same community asked for, and FD should give their work away for free.
Engineers is a perfect example for why listening to your customers isn't always the best idea...
I don’t think “there will be complaints” is really a problem. There’s already complaints now.
I think people on this forum get way too hung up on this false premise of “Frontier can’t win,” where “no complaints from anyone”=“Winning”, and “someone somewhere isn’t 100% onboard with what they’re doing”=“the fan base is totally unreasonable and forever angry at FDev”.
But in real life it’s not about whether there will or won’t be any complaints at all it’s choosing which path will annoy the fewest people or at least the fewest people that matter.
I think they'll go for the most cynical, profit making method they can without alienating too much of their customer base.
The current model will continue until the base game appears so incomplete without horizons that it puts people off making any further purchases. The only change will be when enough people complain and aren't carrying out microtransactions.
Even then, they'll probably just drop ED and move on to something else if it becomes unprofitable.
That is pretty much their actual obligation towards the shareholders. It has nothing to do with 'cynical', it is why corporations exist and what they are supposed to be doing: make as much profit as possible. There is also nothing being added to Horizons anymore, so there 'continue until the base game appears so incomplete without horizons that it puts people off making any further purchases' makes little sense.
That is not true Engineers were NEVER sidegrades, NEVER presented or proposed as such in even the earliest previews of the feature. They were OP and ridiculous from day1 in fact after the preview reveal many of the weapon special effects received pushback from the community because they were TOO powerful.
The community wanted interesting sidegrades but Frontier insisted on power creep. Because interesting sidegrades require infinitely more thought and care in design than “make the numbers go up”. Engineers is a perfect example of how Frontier could have made something much better if they had listened to their community.
Rafe Zetter
Banned
10\10 still stays that is spelled* wrong
EDIT: Added to my dictionary
*Spelt
The ED forum (and most others) uses an "American English" dictionary despite the fact that Americans didn't invent english (no we aren't having that conversation again), aren't the biggest users of the language and have got most of it wrong and changed thier version of it to remove "superfluous letters" because they can't spell.
"Whining" is a noise.
"Whinging" is an action - the act of complaining.
When most people say "stop yer whining" - they are wrong (unless talking to a dog)
There's only ONE meaning for "whinge" - the right one, dates back around 350 years or so.
There are TWO meanings for "whining" - the correct one of a high pitched sound, and the wrong one of complaining that's become part of popular use because some people (read, Americans) don't know any better.
This is why english is so hard for people to learn, because it gets mangled so often that original meanings get changed.
Sorry mods.
class dismissed.
edit - "biggets" fixed, sorry stinja
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I quite agree. Though I suspect it's "listening to only a favoured subset of customers", rather than "listening isn't the best idea". If they listened to everyone and then decided what was best for the game's future... Well who knows, maybe what they are doing is best, but it sure doesn't feel like it from down here in the peanut gallery.
Tis true, there are complaints already. But we have to accept the current situation and look how to move on. It's not like we can go backwards, or rather it's not like FD can (or even would). Something must be done, or the fan-base is going to be further split. I'd be the first to support a better idea for fixing that - and torches and pitchforks outside FDHQ isn't the best idea, the roads down around the Science Park are bad enough now without an Angry Mob too.
That's a rather cynical attitude.
Rafe Zetter
Banned
So many of you are telling the OP to "go buy it, it's only a few bucks / pounds / euro's"
Yet none of you are volunteering despite continually making the point that the price is so low as to be almost meaningless pocket change.
So if you're not willing to give him the money - or group together to help him buy it - it's not quite such a meaningless amount after all is it?
If you're the kind of person that would pick up a dollar / pound / euro - from the pavement instead of walking past - then you saying to him "it's just a few....." are hypocrites.
There's a point being made by the OP and most of you aren't getting it.
Yet none of you are volunteering despite continually making the point that the price is so low as to be almost meaningless pocket change.
So if you're not willing to give him the money - or group together to help him buy it - it's not quite such a meaningless amount after all is it?
If you're the kind of person that would pick up a dollar / pound / euro - from the pavement instead of walking past - then you saying to him "it's just a few....." are hypocrites.
There's a point being made by the OP and most of you aren't getting it.
I was under the impression this was an 18+ game .
'It doesn't matter if it's £1.00 or £100.00' can anyone explain this logic please?
That is pretty much their actual obligation towards the shareholders. It has nothing to do with 'cynical', it is why corporations exist and what they are supposed to be doing: make as much profit as possible. There is also nothing being added to Horizons anymore, so there 'continue until the base game appears so incomplete without horizons that it puts people off making any further purchases' makes little sense.
Ah, I was using 'cynical' objectively. Strong word perhaps, but meant as you said - they're looking after their own interests and continued survival above all else.
For you second point, fair enough, we are now into beyond, but what happens if future paid for expansions require horizons or the OPs original point is exacerbated. They could still build on horizons in future.
Completely agree. A sad and unfortunate character trait from working in new product development in another industry. I've seen similar approaches before.