Okay FDEV time to make elite fair..FOR EVERYONE!

[CMDR NightsLong]

We have discussed this before... You cannot be into Elite Dangerous and only play the base game it makes no sense, you must boot it up once a month for an hour. The DLC is £5 for goodness sakes. ED is pointless without Horizons.

No, they shouldn’t change NPC’s.

FD have given us so much for free in my opinion, I was ready to buy another expansion this year and it never came, I would prefer to support them and allow the game I love to continue to flourish. FD are very fair and so far, very consumer friendly. I bought JW to show my support during the sale (I wanted to pick it up at some point).

 

[Stinja]

Not sure you need all of Horizons. I moved my PC account to Jaques, before it was Colonia, and never done any engineering. I only got Horizons to land on planets.

… aren't the biggets users of the language ...

Sorry teacher, but what is "biggets"? Not I word i'm familiar with.

Disclaimer: British English isn't my first language, but i'm trying proper like innit.

 

[Vedmo]

Should have know more of this Horizons = pay to win would pop up. Pay to win has a meaning in video games and carries a stigma; it most certainly does not apply to new expansions. To say so with pedantic reasoning is misleading and ridiculous. The closest thing to pay to win in this game is the Cobra IV, as you purchased a ship otherwise not available, but that isn't pay to win either, as it was part of a broader purchase and doesn't win you anything.

Now if the Frontier store started sell hands down superior modules or ships, that would be pay to win.


With another expansion around the corner, maybe it is time to make the base game free to play with a discounted Horizons.

 

[Morbad]

Should have know more of this Horizons = pay to win would pop up. Pay to win has a meaning in video games and carries a stigma; it most certainly does not apply to new expansions. To say so with pedantic reasoning is misleading and ridiculous.

Pointing out that Horizons costs money and provides significant advantages, even in tasks that do not feature core Horizons content, is most certainly an example of pay-to-win. This isn't pedantic reasoning, nor do I find it at all misleading or ridiculous, but self-evident and blatantly obvious.

And it should carry stigma. I find it to be poor gameplay (mostly via artificially segregating the player base) and an even worse way to incentivize the purchase of content.

Now if the Frontier store started sell hands down superior modules or ships, that would be pay to win.

That's precisely what Horizons is.

No CMDR of a non-Horizons player has the opportunity to acquire what my CMDR has. Most of my CMDR's ships and modules are vastly superior to non-Horizons content.

 

[Stealthie]

Now if the Frontier store started sell hands down superior modules or ships, that would be pay to win.

Sarcasm?

That has to be sarcasm, right?

 

[Dutchman141]

If I understand correctly then I agree with the OP.
Frontier should stop selling the base game package and only offer a Horizon included version and a seperate Horizon dlc for those still playing the base game only.

I can't with the best of me understand why you would play ED without Horizon though.
You pay at most 50 or 60 euro for hundreds (thousands in my case) of hours gameplay, sounds like a bargain to me.

 

[Ian Phillips]

He's saying that not all of Chapter 4's content is accessible, not that none of it is accessible. The grammar is a bit odd, but the context should clarify it.

Ok, Thanks. I see it now

 

[bitstorm]

I think it was silly to have tangible advantages that were exclusive to Horizons in the first place and I wouldn't draw such a line. If Horizons was simply new locations or gameplay types, that would be one thing, but it's a lot more than that.

I'm strongly of the opinion that there is nothing I have that a user of the base game should not be able to attain, unless it's something that has zero utility for non-Horizons content (e.g. the SRV), and my opinion wouldn't change if there was only one non-Horizons player in existence.

I think if you kept to that many many features would have to be shelved as "cannot implement", it would literally end up dictating what you can and can't add.

I think implementing any feature with a hard rule that you can never give one player an advantage in a multiplayer environment is going to be very very difficult indeed, and if you did keep to that what you implement would likely be very dull, and you'd risk ending up with the game stagnating.

Think about how the peer to peer networking dictates ultimately dictates what gameplay can be implemented, for me I'd rather Frontier not add another limitation like this.

For me we have the base game, the DLC is ultra-cheap, I'd want Frontier to just add what's best for the game and not pay too much heed to not adding anything "too good" into DLC.

I honestly doubt there's anyone in this thread who doesn't own Horizons.

Though I think it's likely Horizons would be rolled into base game at some point, maybe when the next paid content arrives as a sweetener to quell the inevitable moans.

 

[Morbad]

I think if you kept to that many many features would have to be shelved as "cannot implement", it would literally end up dictating what you can and can't add.

I think implementing any feature with a hard rule that you can never give one player an advantage in a multiplayer environment is going to be very very difficult indeed, and if you did keep to that what you implement would likely be very dull, you'd end up with the game stagnating.

In the case of Horizons, simply having Engineers on non-planetary bases would have eliminated the overwhelming bulk of the discrepancy. There are already alternate paths to get raw materials and few of the rest of Horizons content rivals what can be done with Engineering. A few of the Guardian modules provide advantages, and some factions have only surface bases to interact with, but Engineering is the biggie.

Regardless, my preferred solution, as stated earlier, is to simply upgrade everyone after a certain period of time. Those who want all the new content now could pay for it, but the rest of the game would never be more than a season behind.

 

[bitstorm]

In the case of Horizons, simply having Engineers on non-planetary bases would have eliminated the overwhelming bulk of the discrepancy. There are already alternate paths to get raw materials and few of the rest of Horizons content rivals what can be done with Engineering. A few of the Guardian modules provide advantages, and some factions have only surface bases to interact with, but Engineering is the biggie.

I spose they could add a g5 shield engineer to some stations and keep the rest on planets.

This would make conflict zones more survivable.

Would be interesting to see what the daily active players that doesn't have Horizons is, I still think it's 2.8%.

I suppose you could argue that the bigger issue is still selling base + dlc separately, perhaps it should just be one bundle now, but existing users should still have to upgrade. ie take the base game off sale. This way new players aren't hammered while having no clue.

 

[xondk]

Its quite easy, base game, gets base game content, horizon gets horizon content, that is fair and balanced, and it is like this in any other game that has expansions, those without the expansions aren't meant to be able to get access to expansion content.

I've been in the situation where I cannot afford an expansion and it sucks, but that does not mean the game should be changed just because I cannot afford something.

That said, once the next expansion gets released, then it is fairly normal to merge the base and older expansions, there needs to be a motivation to actually buy, and thus the game making profit that can support future development, so yeah, 'base' game if anything should be 1 release behind, I agree, but that's it.

 

[Morbad]

existing users should still have to upgrade.

Why?

If they haven't done so already, they probably are never going to pay to do so, so there is unlikely to be any significant loss of revenue from upgrading everyone. On the plus side, the whole player base would get to interact with each other, directly or otherwise, with more equality of opportunity.

 

[Mo Ronik]

No Horizons, no Dolphin... Dolphin is a really nice ship and worth the purchase price of Horizons just to fly it. There, rant over.. hahaha

 

[Deleted member 110222]

No Horizons, no Dolphin... Dolphin is a really nice ship and worth the purchase price of Horizons just to fly it. There, rant over.. hahaha

TRUTH.

Not being funny guys but if you can't afford Horizons after THREE YEARS, you may need to get your finances sorted.

Even I can afford AAA games & high-end gaming devices with just a bit of informed decision making IRL, and I'm on benefits.

 

[Morbad]

I've been in the situation where I cannot afford an expansion and it sucks, but that does not mean the game should be changed just because I cannot afford something.

I feel that my characters being elevated above those of non-Horizons players does me, a Beta backer and LEP holder, a significant disservice.

This is a multi-player only title and one way or another, we are all each other's content. Non-Horizons players cannot manipulate the BGS as efficiently, cannot go where my CMDR goes for the purpose of co-op play, cannot often pose a threat to my CMDR in a direct confrontation, and often cannot pull their weight when winged with my CMDR.

I care far less about keeping someone who didn't cough up as much money as I did from reaping some of the same benefits than I do about this game having as rich an environment as possible...arbitrary barriers dividing the player base are not at all conducive to the latter.

People are using the low price of the game and it's expansion as reason why everyone should just pay to upgrade. I think it's an equally good argument for a free upgrade. Sell one game, for more than pennies, and justify the cost by including all extant expansions.

Not being funny guys but if you can't afford Horizons after THREE YEARS, you may need to get your finances sorted.

I spent $75 on the Mercenary edition beta pre-order, $180 on my LEP, about $100 on now depreciated camoflage, and about $2000 on various controls and hardware upgrades. Given that I've extracted more than 6000 hours of entertainment from these purchases in the last 4.5 years, I consider this a bargain.

I still feel cheated by the dichotomy between me and non-Horizons players.

 

[Stealthie]

Why?

If they haven't done so already, they probably are never going to pay to do so, so there is unlikely to be any significant loss of revenue from upgrading everyone.

That's a very dangerous precedent for a company to set, though.
Next, they introduce, say, space-legs as a paid-expansion and nobody buys it 'cos they figure they'll get it for free in a couple of years.

Have to say, though, that the base-game really is only "half a game" whereas ED+Horizons is a more complete package.
I think Fdev could get away with bundling ED & Horizons together for all players so that everybody'd have access to all of the main "game-loop" elements and then they could create specialised expansions without having to compromise updates to the main game for fear of excluding non-Horizons players.

 

[Patrick_68000]

The voice of reason as always Double Elite Patrick.

I suppose that the Triple Elite is the voice of wisdom.

 

[amigacooke]

Yup, me too

Basically if you don't own the expansion, then don't whine about it.
We own it, we are happy to pay for it, deal with it.

Easy as that

Fly safe

Careful, you’re sort of endorsing the ‘pay to win’ argument.

 

[xondk]

I feel that my characters being elevated above those of non-Horizons players does me, a Beta backer and LEP holder, a significant disservice.

This is a multi-player only title and one way or another, we are all each other's content. Non-Horizons players cannot manipulate the BGS as efficiently, cannot go where my CMDR goes for the purpose of co-op play, cannot often pose a threat to my CMDR in a direct confrontation, and often cannot pull their weight when winged with my CMDR.

I care far less about keeping someone who didn't cough up as much money as I did from reaping some of the same benefits than I do about this game having as rich an environment as possible...arbitrary barriers dividing the player base are not at all conducive to the latter.

People are using the low price of the game and it's expansion as reason why everyone should just pay to upgrade. I think it's an equally good argument for a free upgrade. Sell one game, for more than pennies, and justify the cost by including all extant expansions.

For the game to run around it needs to create money, how would they fund expansions if not buy the fact that people buy them?

As for you being elevated, you are not, you are on the same level as all horizon players, and the none horizon players are on the same level as those that haven't bought horizon.

Comparing one to the other makes no sense, you might as well be saying that since you have a 2 year old tv, and someone else buys a new tv this year, you should get a new tv as well. And that is simply not how it works.

 

[amigacooke]

There isn't a guaranteed shelf life on any iteration of a game. Not only can the developer change whatever they want at any time, a vast majority of the player base expects them to, and not doing so would mean the death of their game. If you don't want to grow with the game by buying new expansions, then too bad. I don't think they should waste an ounce of energy worrying about those who choose to play an old version. They should consider it no longer supported.

Aren’t Frontier still selling the basic game? Are they suggesting it’s not supported?