Will you pre-order the next DLC? I will... and that's why:

Frontier got us to pay their marketing costs? It's not really getting any better.

The KickStarter created an engaged community, that Frontier seem to have been edging away from ever since. It's notable that neither Planet Coaster, nor Jurassic World were KickStarted.

iirc the reason they used KSer was not because they did not have the cash to make it, but because they genuinely did not know if there was enough interest and so it was used as a yardstick to see if there was.

also - and this part is sadly hilarious - they also wanted to self publish because a publisher would apparently want to simplify everything and would not be interested in a complex system that was grounded in reality and that made sense (paraphrasing)

however FD have been quite capable of moving away from this more and more themselves since 1.0 without any help from external publishers.

(anyone remember the level of detail we were promised with every ship being designed with utility in mind including being specced out internally for cargo space as well as engine sizes etc -and the size being correct and sensible from an engineering point of view.... (within the rules set within the science fiction lore of course)

then we got space wizards and enchanters known as engineers :/

none of which will stop me getting future DLC but all of which makes me no longer really trust what FD say when it comes to their marketing spiel to sell us stuff.

hell even horizons dev interviews told us we were going to get new planets to land on in horizons (volcanic worlds) and i am 95% certain we were told new SRVs were coming in the horizons seasons. - like possibly slower ones which could carry more cargo or have more armour/fire power etc - and we have no idea if they really made much effort in creating the new ice worlds to hit the artistic impressions shown off in 2017)

then there was going to be multicrew with SRVs, ...... so i do get why people now quite sensibly are saying show me the product and maybe i will show you my money.
 
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iirc the reason they used KSer was not because they did not have the cash to make it, but because they genuinely did not know if there was enough interest and so it was used as a yardstick to see if there was.

Kind of difficult to know why they needed all those pledging tiers then really.
 
Looks like if they throw some pre-order goodies in people will bite.

I bet somone at FD has already designed pre order decals using MS paint on their lunch break after reading this thread.
 
Looks like if they throw some pre-order goodies in people will bite.

I bet somone at FD has already designed pre order decals using MS paint on their lunch break after reading this thread.

They still owe me a decal, I don't think I'm that cheap :D
 
OP if the price is right and the goodies are good and I like the concept then yeah I'd pre-order as a vote to continue development.
 
Buying it at launch date supports the game just as well without throwing your money outa window.


Yes but buying DLC supports it even MOOOAAARE [yesnod].

Seriously - it’s a personal decision and not something I want to discuss [up]. I buy a game, and if I like it I’ll probably throw more money at it (if possible), or at least at its developer.
 
I miss my youth. For all sorts of reasons, but partly because it was a time when the intent of a remark and the context of a word's use actually mattered. We could use extraordinarily 'offensive' words on each other with great affection and zero malice and we all knew when someone had crossed the line. Offence used to be taken, not given.
(...)
I don't think our culture is enriched by our verbal cowardice. I think it emboldens and empowers otherwise weak people willing to play on ever more convoluted victim narratives. The future belongs to them; a bleak, repressive back to front and upside down future where excellence in any sphere will be a very real handicap to whatever poor fool fails to hide their natural flair or talent. [sad]

QFT, +rep.

And it appears that FD never did really need our help. There was a budget to develop ED and the KickStarter money that was portrayed as vital, was just a bit of icing on the top.
A company that's existed for 20 years shouldn't be scrounging for handouts to launch a product.
(...)
They just took the p out of naive gamers.

You seem to miss one thing, that is the state of "space games" (for a lack of a better term) at that time. They were non-existent. There was this belief of major game publishers that the audience for that is not existent (games are for kids, complicated games are not successful, blahblahblah). Whatever the reasons were, there was drought on the market. I was not surprised to learn that they wanted to put that theory to the test before investing millions of pounds into new Elite development. And lo and behold, it turned out that people who played the original as kids/teenagers now have a disposable income :)

But IMHO it was not the success of Elite Dangerous or Scam Citizen who "opened the market" of space games again, it was I think the outcry that was heard at No Man's Sky premiere. Suddenly there was this commotion all over social media over a "stupid space game". And that's was the straw that broke the camel's back on that ridiculous belief that there is no market for space games, I think.

True, but I guess it wasn't done just for cash and finance but also for marketing. I wouldn't have known a new elite is being worked on if it wasn't for the kickstarter. On the other hand, my first impression wasn't really great: If it needed a kickstarter - it might well crash and burn like startups do sometimes. That was my 1st takeaway.

Same. I heard about a Kickstarter and was all like "well, good luck".

Well since you were the only one who took the time to answer, the least I can do is answer back.

Coming back to the leper part, I will continue to think that it's distasteful to use it. But since we carry out conversations on this forum in English, and since language use inherits cultural norms, then I will just have to adhere to what the majority of English speakers consider normal.

I can provide some insight as a non-native speaker. I am familiar with the words leper and leprosy, but actually never associated LEPer with that. Somehow it doesn't connect like that for me, I find it a funny conglomerate of LEP and -er. Something akin to "board hop-per" or, even better: "buckyball-er". Yeah, "buckyballer" is a perfect example. Also a few posts back I explained how that's even more funny in Polish, the "LEP" being "flypaper" and catching all those... enthusiast people :D

Why do you think spending you money in advance provides you any advantage as a customer?
Amazingly, there are some. Playing a game on release is an experience, being one of the first to play it and discuss with like-minded friends. We actually saw it on this very forum on release of X4: Foundations. The thread went on actively for two weeks at least, and still pings in my subscribed threads from time to time.

Lately, there is also the experience of taking part in drama surrounding a rocky release, sadly. X-Rebirth, Fallout 4 VR, Skyrim VR, Doom VFR. Out of these three, only X-Rebirth I pre-ordered on "good faith" in Egosoft. The rest had hefty discounts and in the content-starved VR landscape back then, where a "shot a duck in the foot experience(tm)" was €20 getting these BIG titles for ~€30-40 I think was a real bargain. And each of this titles had problems on release but thanks to the discount, the later three didn't leave a bad taste in mouth. For the record, I didn't have any serious problems with X-Rebirth too, but for friends it crashed and burned which soured the entertainment value of talking about the game with them.

There is also this new "profession" called "influencer" (snicker) on youtube or twitch, these people have a genuine interest to preorder and play something first. Some even get pre-release copies, like Obsidian Ant did. But for the average joe there is no incentive to part with the money before seeing the goods, and certainly NOT giving it to a stock traded company which is doing MORE THAN FINE. I don't know why this "poor indie studio" mentality is still present in 2019, but some people need a reality check tbh. Frontier Developments is almost TWICE the size of Bethesda Studios judging by employment numbers.

Last but not least, I also find the comments of "no I do not preorder things! I have a LEP!" genuinely amusing. It's like saying "I do not preorder things, but I paid 3-4 DLC preorder prices in advance" [haha]. Note - if I had a chance to justify that kind of money paid "in blanco" at that time, I probably would. Now? No way in hell, the goodwill is spent on that one.
 
Amazingly, there are some. Playing a game on release is an experience, being one of the first to play it and discuss with like-minded friends. We actually saw it on this very forum on release of X4: Foundations. The thread went on actively for two weeks at least, and still pings in my subscribed threads from time to time.

I still fondly remember the very early days of this game (ok, ok, for me it was Premium Beta), when it was just a handful of stations and I was like "OMG!!! I'm flying a space ship again, it looks AMAZING!!!" That feeling was replicated only one more time since ED arrived--it was when I picked up a DK2 for a song and got to see Elite VR for the first time. "OMG!!.....et al."

That feeling has been oddly absent since, despite the many updates.
 
A lot of interesting answers in the thread, especially when you read it in bed, sick as a dog after spending the holidays in the mountains...

Personally I was happy with 2.0 but less and less happy with 2.x... Regarding Beyond, I understood the meaning behind it, but also that it was made by the B team with minimal resources. I had a thread closed by mods last year when I bashed some game designers, so let's leave it this way.

I don't have any inside info of course, but I'm pretty good at reading between the lines, so let's assume that the next DLC is atmospheric landings and more than that, including a new graphics overhaul, which may be applied to Horizons planets too, for free. No guarranty for any piece of leg, though.

Depending of the DLC scope, it may barely catch Q3 or even Q4 this year. I hope they won't split it just to have an early release.

IMHO, Horizon was scaled down for various reasons, so I hope this won't be the case anymore.

Of course the pre-orders will have a perk, but not like Cobra Mk 4. Frontier is not stupid. Although there are a few people there with butts in need of kicking.

All I want is for the game to feel more complete and with its soul still there. That's why I will pre-order on all of my 3 accounts (me, my son on PC and our Xbox holiday account). At the pre-order date, we'll know for sure the main content. Not all the details, just the important stuff.

Like many of you I don't normally pre-order. Personally, I have played only Elite since 2015, but I still buy games for the kid, so I'm still in the market, so to speak...
 
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You seem to miss one thing, that is the state of "space games" (for a lack of a better term) at that time. They were non-existent. There was this belief of major game publishers that the audience for that is not existent (games are for kids, complicated games are not successful, blahblahblah). Whatever the reasons were, there was drought on the market. I was not surprised to learn that they wanted to put that theory to the test before investing millions of pounds into new Elite development. And lo and behold, it turned out that people who played the original as kids/teenagers now have a disposable income :)

Frontier certainly didn't miss that crowdfunding shifted the risk from the developer to the backer. KickStarters are a form of legal blackmail, developers begging for the money upfront threatening the very existence of the game if the cash isn't raised.

Yet it seemed while quite a few were 'jontying' to get Frontier ever closer to the mystical £1.25M and authors were coughing up £4500 for the chance to promote ED at their own expence, Frontier already had the money that was needed.

I find it difficult to believe that those of us who were backers were not misled and manipulated into raising funds that Frontier didn't really need. Like premiership football clubs, supporters loyalty is monetised by those whose first concern is financial.

We were suckered.
 
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Frontier certainly didn't miss that crowdfunding shifted the risk from the developer to the backer. KickStarters are a form of legal blackmail, developers begging for the money upfront threatening the very existence of the game if the cash isn't raised.

Yet it seemed while quite a few were 'jontying' to get Frontier ever closer to the mystical £1.25M and authors were coughing up £4500 for the chance to promote ED at their own expence, Frontier already had the money that was needed.

I find it difficult to believe that those of us who were backers were not misled and manipulated into raising funds that Frontier didn't really need. Like premiership football clubs, supporters loyalty is monetised by those whose first concern is financial.

We were suckered.

You are being overly dramatic again.
 
Yes but buying DLC supports it even MOOOAAARE [yesnod].

Seriously - it’s a personal decision and not something I want to discuss [up]. I buy a game, and if I like it I’ll probably throw more money at it (if possible), or at least at its developer.

Yes, I menat that. Buying your DLC at launch date supports the company just as well. No need to throw your money outa window for preorder. This should clear it up.
 
Which means you don't disagree with the basic facts, just their presentation?

Not sure. Without the success of Kickstarter it's possible that they would've abandoned the project. It's also possible that the game would've been worse without the additional funds.
 
Plus, none of this... 'Ice worlds gonna be upgraded - er, actually we changed our minds, it's coming SoonTM'. Like, where's the Scatter Rock tech they said was coming, they didn't mention that wasn't coming out in 3.3, just the ice world changes had been delayed.

This is the thing, you see.

I'm not sure I'd trust FD to deliver what they say they will. Sometimes their use of semantics has turned out to be better than their game content. The Codex for example is not actually what many of us thought it would be and I too miss the ice-terrain that was promised.

Certainly, if the DLC was more combat stuff then I wouldn't pre-order...in fact I wouldn't buy it at all.

If it's atmos I'll definitely buy it when it's released, providing the details of what it is are made clear and a video provided.
 
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