Will you pre-order the next DLC? I will... and that's why:

[Rafe Zetter]

Are you suggesting FDev *knew* there would be 25,681 supporters on KickStarter before they started it? How could they have known this?



What are you implying here?

The point amiga was making is that if the KS was "purely to gauge the market interst" as Slopey and others have said - why were there pledges of from £5 going up to £5,000 and then charging other interested parties ANOTHER £4,500 to get a license to write a book.

They could have just been £5 to get a voucher for a discounted sale later - that's it - no LEP's getting the money up front with a PROMISE of delivery of content "sometime maybe" YEARS from now.

OR - once the KS was funded - with the initial KS amount being lower to reflect the £5 pledge - THEN FDev could have said - "ok we asked, you answered, we now think there is enough interest in the product to give the green light, we will make it and all those that backed the KS can now purchase these packages, each with increasing cost and value - for the sole purpose of SUPPORTING the development" + stretch goals etc etc.

But FDev didn't did they? They went STRAIGHT FOR THE MONEY.

So forgive me but, sure thing Slopey - "it wasn't a money making exercise".

Oh btw - even after charging almost £1000 for a 3d model of an anaconda it took FDev FOUR YEARS to deliver.

Take off those rose tinted spectacles please - it's annoying to see a moderator lie like that.

 

[Riverside]

The last time FDev offered a pre-order (horizons) for me it was a no brainer that I would do it. Having an exclusive ship was a nice gesture & while it was a disappointing ship I'd rather have it than not. The Black Friday paint pack turned out to be the pre-order perk I have used the most, that actually was something I would have bought with hindsight.

The (ongoing) delay while we wait for news on the next premium release has been frustrating but I think that if I hadn't already paid (I actually ordered an LEP rather than just Horizons which time has told actually bought me a social pariah uniform) I'd pre-order for exclusive perks again.

I still play most days for long periods, it's still pretty well the only game I play & the only one I want to play. I get frustrated when stuff is removed for no good reason but I have nothing against stuff being added nor stuff being exclusive.

But the delay. It's way, way too protracted.

And the whole secrecy, wanting things to be a surprise thing? Stop that please, tell us what's going on FDev, just tell us the things. If nothing else it'll give us something new to talk about while we wait, hoping the next announcement won't be that the servers will be switched off.

And add to the game like you actually have a multi-staged plan, don't remove stuff for the sake of it four years after release.

 

[Blackcompany]

No.

I might buy it once its completed and all advertised mechanics are fully fleshed out and in a finished, polished state. But preorder? After RNGineers (basically, slot machine gambling with no currency) as a feature mechanic?

Not a chance.

 

[Rafe Zetter]

[snip]now.... if you had said made it entirely clear they could have just pledged £20 (base game) or £70 (life time expansion with base game) then you would have had a point.

[snip]
should FD have gone the way of KSer or was it taking the mick a bit? maybe they were but they were not the 1st to do it, nor the last. You and I both knew FD were a big company presumably and not really in the spirit of why the KSer was made so you did have your chance to protest by not backing.

I honestly think if only 5K old duffers had kicked in a total of say £50K FD may well have thought twice about releasing the game.....

X4 had no KS. Seems to be doing ok thanks so far, and that's on the heels of a frankly atrocious, borderline criminal launch of X-rebirth, but egosoft still backed thier own product, and gave it four years development, no outside money.

As to the ED KS, If Sir David Braben OBE - widely recognised as the progenitor of the entire genre cannot sell his game idea to a publisher for the development funds, then he needs to retire and go fishing or knitting or something else.

I'm not bashing him - quite the contrary - I'm saying if the KS had failed for lack of public support (because most young gamers have no clue WHO he is) I'm certain he could have got the money elsewhere if he REALLY WANTED TO.

BUT, if it had been "no kS - no game" then FDev basically don't believe in their own product.

That situation would have said quite a bit for a 20 year old game development company run by the CEO who INVENTED THE SPACE GAME GENRE.

 

[VR StarLightPL]

that's on the heels of a frankly atrocious, borderline criminal launch of X-rebirth

(...)

I'm not bashing him - quite the contrary - I'm saying if the KS had failed for lack of public support (because most young gamers have no clue WHO he is) I'm certain he could have got the money elsewhere if he REALLY WANTED TO.

BUT, if it had been "no kS - no game" then FDev basically don't believe in their own product.

That situation would have said quite a bit for a 20 year old game development company run by the CEO who INVENTED THE SPACE GAME GENRE.

1. Get over X:R launch already! [haha] it was 5 years ago ;-) Even NMS recovered. Let the past be past, X:R is a decent game now, though it is not your typical X3 game. They tried, they failed, they recovered. And I wouldn't call it borderline criminal as I played it on release. It was nowhere as bad (yes I was lucky).

2. It has been said that it (the Elite's Kickstarter) was to gauge interest in the playerbase. I wasn't following it, but I also would research before investing life's savings into what's basically a gamble. And as I wrote it was a hard time for "space games" then. Maybe if it failed, they would have shelved the project and come back to it at a later date. Also, not all people are cut out to be CEOs. Some people become CEOs by luck. I am not familiar with how FDev was doing before Elite, but judging from the founding date, it seems that Braben manages just fine.

 

[sollisb]

X4 had no KS. Seems to be doing ok thanks so far, and that's on the heels of a frankly atrocious, borderline criminal launch of X-rebirth, but egosoft still backed thier own product, and gave it four years development, no outside money.

As to the ED KS, If Sir David Braben OBE - widely recognised as the progenitor of the entire genre cannot sell his game idea to a publisher for the development funds, then he needs to retire and go fishing or knitting or something else.

I'm not bashing him - quite the contrary - I'm saying if the KS had failed for lack of public support (because most young gamers have no clue WHO he is) I'm certain he could have got the money elsewhere if he REALLY WANTED TO.

BUT, if it had been "no kS - no game" then FDev basically don't believe in their own product.

That situation would have said quite a bit for a 20 year old game development company run by the CEO who INVENTED THE SPACE GAME GENRE.

Sorry, the CEO did not invent the Space Game Genre. He/They [Braben/Bell] took an existing game and made it into a 3D version and it grew from there.

 

[Shir]

Next DLC will be Thargoid onslaught related. It will be called: BUG ATTACK!!

 

[Mugur]

Sorry, the CEO did not invent the Space Game Genre. He/They [Braben/Bell] took an existing game and made it into a 3D version and it grew from there.

What existing game? Elite was a unique concept at the time, for its procedural generated "galaxy" and for its wireframe with hidden line removal...

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

X4 had no KS. Seems to be doing ok thanks so far, and that's on the heels of a frankly atrocious, borderline criminal launch of X-rebirth, but egosoft still backed thier own product, and gave it four years development, no outside money.

As to the ED KS, If Sir David Braben OBE - widely recognised as the progenitor of the entire genre cannot sell his game idea to a publisher for the development funds, then he needs to retire and go fishing or knitting or something else.

I'm not bashing him - quite the contrary - I'm saying if the KS had failed for lack of public support (because most young gamers have no clue WHO he is) I'm certain he could have got the money elsewhere if he REALLY WANTED TO.

BUT, if it had been "no kS - no game" then FDev basically don't believe in their own product.

That situation would have said quite a bit for a 20 year old game development company run by the CEO who INVENTED THE SPACE GAME GENRE.

It is funny you should mention X:R as I am on the virge of buying X:R VR edition. (In a sale of course)

I am somewhat on the fence in this discussion I think both sides have some very good points. On one hand I do think FD have made a decent game and had I not already paid for all future content I would be prepared to buy the next DLC. On the other hand I do feel the nature of the game has significantly deviated from the one advertised in the KSer (and definitely not in a good way imo ) and I do agree that multimillion £ companies using Kickstarter to push the risks onto the fans is not ideal.

But things are rarely black and white in this world. End of the day we are the consumer so power is with us.... Pre-order or wait for release or boycott entirely ..... There are good reasons to do all the above

 

[VR StarLightPL]

It is funny you should mention X:R as I am on the virge of buying X:R VR edition. (In a sale of course)
(...)
multimillion £ companies using Kickstarter to push the risks onto the fans is not ideal.

Do buy X:R for the sole purpose of flying with touch controllers! It's an eye opening experience, though not everybody will like it. Just be sure to give it a chance, play for a day or so with touch (although usually a few minutes is enough before it "clicks" in your head), don't jump in to configure HOTAS. There is lots to configure and it might happen that it will be time wasted ;-)

Flying with viwands is pure bliss, and rift's controllers are even better because they have thumbstick and more natural grip angle, plus they have finger sensing and afaik you can point at the menu. Aside from that, game is just pretty in VR. Something Elite can learn from, IMHO, especially busy stations.

Re: Kickstarter. It doesn't work that way. If kickstarter failed to reach the goal, money would be returned to backers. IMHO it was a catchy market research tbh. The real KS risk is company not delivering the product promised (which, in my opinion, is kind of the case here), and setting for minimum viable product because reasons. This is harder to recover money from. But even Scam Citizen had to refund some purchases (they made it harder to refund since, but it's still possible).

 

[sollisb]

What existing game? Elite was a unique concept at the time, for its procedural generated "galaxy" and for its wireframe with hidden line removal...

The unique part of Elite '84 was the 3D wireframe graphics, which was a 'defining' moment for the genre, no 2 ways about it. The game itself was was based on Space Rogue or some name like that.

Ian Bell wrote the 3D and David Braben the procedural code.

 

[sollisb]

It is funny you should mention X:R as I am on the virge of buying X:R VR edition. (In a sale of course)

I am somewhat on the fence in this discussion I think both sides have some very good points. On one hand I do think FD have made a decent game and had I not already paid for all future content I would be prepared to buy the next DLC. On the other hand I do feel the nature of the game has significantly deviated from the one advertised in the KSer (and definitely not in a good way imo ) and I do agree that multimillion £ companies using Kickstarter to push the risks onto the fans is not ideal.

But things are rarely black and white in this world. End of the day we are the consumer so power is with us.... Pre-order or wait for release or boycott entirely ..... There are good reasons to do all the above

Well I'll always give a company a chance or 2. Problem is Frontier have had many... too many. Recent bug board tells a big story.

 

[Bill Clement]

Lol- Rafe, get down off the fence and tell us what you really think... [haha]

You let me know when that game shows up eh?

Me - I'm still waiting to play the game I was told about (and sold) in the KS.

DB is now a multi millionaire because of ED - he wasn't before - to the tune of... wait for it, £190 million.

Let me let that sink in - the CEO of FDev gained a personal fortune of £190 MILLION based on the success of ED's development (paid for by us) and the raised profile of the company as a result.

Surely if he's got an ounce of faith in his own company and product, FDev won't need pre-order money as DB would be entirely happy to self fund the project knowing it's going to be the best expansion for a space sim ever and people will be falling over themselves to buy three copies - 1 to play and 2 spares "just in case" they break one, and he'll make even more money than he personally invested.

No-one (but the tax man) can tell others what to do with their money - but the idea that FDev needs financial support and that by giving that support they ensure a better product is laughably naive, like "not living in the real world" naive.

And in the light of the fact that so far, to date, FDev have missed every deadline and FAILED to fulfill every release requirement as laid out, what on earth makes a person think throwing more money at a company who's share price rocketed from 170 (give or take) to 1,880 an increase of 1,710% in the four years since ED was being developed - is going to make the slightest bit of difference?

Oh and lets not forget "all money that goes to the company goes into the same development pot"

and that FDev are currently developing not one but TWO new franchises for release in 2020 and 20XX ON TOP of whatever else they are doing for JPW and Planet Coaster.

So any ED DLC preorder money anyone gives them will get used for those projects as well - with an unknown, if any, benefit to ED.

Lots in there, thanks for sharing! Couple of rejoinders?

Firstly, FD might not offer a pre-order, so all that spleen might be for nothing. Well, apart from getting it off your chest, which is probably a good thing. (And breathe, Rafe, breathe : [video=youtube;hibtZPMF9D0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hibtZPMF9D0[/video]

The second is, well, if DBOBE got rich making this game, good job! That's kind of why CEOs put the hours in. It's a lifetime achievement and I'm happy for him. My lifetime achievements are more modest and less monetised, but I'm happy with them. Did you get what you wanted out of life? If you did (I really hope so, I'm not trying to be a 'Richard', here) why waste time getting upset about someone else achieving their aims?

FD have given me the game I wanted. They're giving players of their other titles the game they wanted, too. I'd have made different decisions about some aspects of the game's development, but when I gave them my money I accepted that the decisions they made might not always be the ones I wanted. It's been a great journey so far, it may continue being one for a while yet.

And if it doesn't, EDs success has rejuvenated this particular genre, there are plenty of other titles we can play instead...

It wasn't free - why are SO MANY people being so thick headed and saying it was despite the HUNDREDS of posts that PROVE "BEYOND" DOUBT IT WAS NOT FREE.

Well, thick headed or not, FD didn't charge me for the season. I know you think it was only bug fixes plus a few new fighters, but that's your opinion. I thought it was a whole bunch of cool stuff that I had a great year playing. Only my opinion, but I thought it was pretty much the best year since the game released. If I can get over myself and my engineers strop, I think I'm going to really enjoy mining and exploration. The orrery was just the icing on (my) cake!

The last time FDev offered a pre-order (horizons) for me it was a no brainer that I would do it. Having an exclusive ship was a nice gesture & while it was a disappointing ship I'd rather have it than not. The Black Friday paint pack turned out to be the pre-order perk I have used the most, that actually was something I would have bought with hindsight.

The (ongoing) delay while we wait for news on the next premium release has been frustrating but I think that if I hadn't already paid (I actually ordered an LEP rather than just Horizons which time has told actually bought me a social pariah uniform) I'd pre-order for exclusive perks again.

I still play most days for long periods, it's still pretty well the only game I play & the only one I want to play. I get frustrated when stuff is removed for no good reason but I have nothing against stuff being added nor stuff being exclusive.

But the delay. It's way, way too protracted.

And the whole secrecy, wanting things to be a surprise thing? Stop that please, tell us what's going on FDev, just tell us the things. If nothing else it'll give us something new to talk about while we wait, hoping the next announcement won't be that the servers will be switched off.

And add to the game like you actually have a multi-staged plan, don't remove stuff for the sake of it four years after release.

Thanks for buying it mate. Seriously, the people who backed the kickstarter and the people putting serious money into the game through LEPs and the like are what started the ball rolling. It's all very well sniping at individuals- in FD or our fellow players- but it had to start somewhere. My only real Elite Dangerous regret was not being part of the kickstarter. I got into Premium Beta as soon as I heard about it. The kickstarter was what generated the publicity that got a good friend of mine into the game and it was his heads up that brought me here. If DBOBE and FD are rolling in cash now thanks to our efforts, I'm more than happy to have been a part of that.

I do wish they'd put some of that money into a customer services bod, though! Like you say, just a little communication every now and then would be lovely! [haha]

 

[vagabond07]

yeah. I feel like they def need to see and hear that we are behind them. Beyond finally made the game a full complete game. Now we can move on to what the game can actually expand into. I'm really hoping we will get some tool to actually affect the galaxy like build planetary bases or outposts.

 

[Burke]

Well, thick headed or not, FD didn't charge me for the season.

Cause loads of players would have refused it given the chance. It wasnt free it was forced upon us with the free bit added in to make people feel bad for not liking it.

Somebody explain how free is being forced to give up a module off your ship anyway. No it wasnt free, infact it represents the shedding of a number of players who all (probably) put money in. It wasnt free, its cost the entire game and i will tell anybody who will listen how badly i have been treated by an uncaring "we got your money now" developer.

 

[Scimiter]

I will pre order if the opportunity comes along, FD have produced a game I love playing, so I am quite happy to pay a few quid to keep the game moving along.

 

[xxThe_Dice_manxx]

Yes I would pre purchase as I did with horizons.

It's the only game I would do such a thing with.

The game is healthy and has promise, I think people are in for a big surprise soon.

Imagine being one of the poor smegs who have spent 1000's on SC ??? I have spent less than 100 on ED and I must be pushing 3000 hours ,worth every penny.

 

[Juniper]

Cause loads of players would have refused it given the chance. It wasnt free it was forced upon us with the free bit added in to make people feel bad for not liking it.

Somebody explain how free is being forced to give up a module off your ship anyway. No it wasnt free, infact it represents the shedding of a number of players who all (probably) put money in. It wasnt free, its cost the entire game and i will tell anybody who will listen how badly i have been treated by an uncaring "we got your money now" developer.

You must be great fun at parties.

To the OP... 2 x LEP here, so probably no pre-order, however the account I'm playing on now and really enjoying the new exploration mechanics with does not, so we shall see.

If it's combat orientated, I won't bother.

If, as I suspect, it's going to be called 'Atmospheres', and is the reason why the ice world & scatter rock systems were delayed from 3.3, then almost certainly.

Hell, if they called it "Elite Dangerous: Window Cleaner" then they'd break all sales records.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

No.

I might buy it once its completed and all advertised mechanics are fully fleshed out and in a finished, polished state. But preorder? After RNGineers (basically, slot machine gambling with no currency) as a feature mechanic?

Not a chance.

Especially cosindering they told it were only "mild updates", lol. I expected cosmetic stuff and coloured lasers. And then we got this crap.

 

[babelfisch]

It wasn't free - why are SO MANY people being so thick headed and saying it was despite the HUNDREDS of posts that PROVE "BEYOND" DOUBT IT WAS NOT FREE.

I do understand your view but you'll either need to accept that it's entirely subjective or get angry every time someone says Beyond is free. These hundreds of posts didn't prove anything other than the existence of different definitions of the term 'free'. According to your definition Frontier can't give us something for free. Even if they would give you 50 paintjobs you could still argue that they aren't free because you don't get them without owning the base game. However, saying something is free because something is free of further charge is perfectly valid and well in line with established definitions of the term 'free'.