If I wanted a 'radio-tuning' game I would have rather bought an old radio.

[Han Zulu]

Who still uses radio waves for communication in the 34th century anyway? Should be using light-based emissions.

Light and radio waves are just different types of electromagnetic waves. They differ in energy, wavelength, and frequency. What we consider "light" is the visible spectrum of EM. Radio is just not visible to us. And they travel at the same speed.

 

[Riverside]

The issue, is some people don't want to compromise.

The arguments I've seen so far are basically:

* They want to see the layout of the system to decide if they wish to explore further (Vista-seekers etc)
* It takes too long to decide if the system is worth scanning (money makers, speed-scanners)
* It's pointlessly complicated to achieve the same ends as the original scan (speed-scanners, unwilling to accept change)
* Those who wish to 'explore the old way' - no instant resolving of body positions and orbits (l33t explor3rs)
* People who feel they should be given a choice to play it their way (LEP owners, arch-conservatives*)

None of these arguments are really very compelling. These are almost always PERSONAL opinions, and certainly do not represent the vast majority of those who like the new system. These people will have you believe that we can't 'prove' this - how do we know there are many more who like it than don't - but I would suggest Frontier would likely be seeing a LOT more negative feedback from a LOT more players - and so far I'm seeing nothing to suggest this.

The idea of the completely basic system map is to appease those who fall into the first category in my list.

* I am joking of course.

Your arguments are strawmen here. There is nothing wrong with playing the game as a tourist or to earn money and the new process caters to all of these playstyles.

The argument is simple; the old stuff didn't need to be removed, the new stuff works with it & the two complement each other, playing to different strengths. There is no need to compromise on the functionality of the ADS, it will work just fine with the new process. We can see this by visiting any system that has been tagged by another player that we personally have not visited before. A list of targetable but [unexplored] bodies.

The compromise is not to reintroduce the ADS with black bodies or in any other compromised way, the pre-3.3 discovery modules should be reinstated intact.

The compromise is in accepting that the codex has not been populated with the millions of player discoveries that pre-date 3.3.

The compromise is in accepting that the first discovered tags from players that actually travelled to the body to get them were not retroactively given first mapped tags too, because if the option had been available it can be assumed they would have.

The compromise is in accepting that the pre-3.3 tags have no note to show they weren't just obtained in a few minutes with a telescope, but by a player who actually travelled to them.

 

[Kaltern]

If what you are looking for can be found in the incomplete data & images the sysmap provided with an ADS honk what benefit is there to delaying it's reveal? The time taken to tag a system is as nothing compared to the time taken to get there & back if you want to claim a tag before another player, and that's all on jump range, time to identify a target & scan it isn't a significant factor.

Being an optional module means people who don't want to spoil their enjoyment of the slow reveal don't have to use it. The module should never have been removed in the first place.

You seem to be basing your opinion of why others like the FSS on a lot of assumptions.

The benefit of 'delaying it's reveal', is because you have to actually PUT EFFORT IN to do so. Look, it doesn't matter if you liked the old system or not. It's gone. The old system was CLEARLY not designed to be the end result, but it took a lot longer than expected to remove the placeholder mechanics. That is unfortunate, but it's the way it is.

The new FSS is designed to make exploration interactive, and also to give people a better chance of finding things that are supposedly still not found. It performs BETTER than the original DSS in that you eventually gain more information out of it the more effort you put into it. In a game, this is how it is supposed to be.

'people who don't want to spoil their enjoyment of the slow reveal don't have to use it.' - that is a really bad argument. Why should other people have the option of the 'easy' way? Why should my efforts to uncover a system's details be completely time-undervalued by someone just pressing the I WIN button?

If you don't have the 'time' to scan a system, don't try to ruin it for those who do.

 

[M00ka]

How fast you are travelling will depend on how long you are in the FSS for. The Sysmap & galmap have no such restriction. I guess you quickly look at the wave profile & make a decision based on that. I scan the entire system to be able to make a decision based on the sysmap or info gathered from the FSS Scanner Screen search if only one body of interest was found.

Depends what you are looking for; I find the populated sysmap tells me what I want to know at a glance, now it just contains a bunch of extra stuff.

Horses for courses, different people look for different things.

You are forgetting that the FSS has more than function. I use the method I mentioned when hunting USSs. I know, I am stupid, but I tend to fully resolve a system when I first enter it, normally immediately prior to fuel scooping if required. I have found that when mat collecting, the USSs will respawn, that is when I use the FSS at speed, only takes a few seconds when you know what you are doing

 

[Riverside]

Rubbish. It revealed virtually everything except the specific planet type and composition. It showed all orbit info, locations in the system and other such info. The new FSS shows absolutely NOTHING unless you manually scan each body - which is how it should be, regardless if you or anyone else don't like it - it's by design.



Pretty sure I answered this above - You cannot expect something introduced to deliberately increase the amount of effort required to reveal information, to be completely overturned by pressing a single button.



No, because I would rather use the slot for something else, and I personally like the new system. Asking me is a pointless exercise because I don't see anything wrong with the FSS as it is - I'm just suggesting a valid compromise for those who only want the system map and nothing else.

So you propose a solution you would no accept. Why would anyone else accept it? There was no justification for the removal of the old ADS, which provided a different slice of the full information available. It doesn't provide the same info the FSS does (comparing the pre-DSS sysmap info to the pre-resolved FSS wave).

The ADS provided enough information for me to make a meaningful choice on whether to investigate further, the unresolved FSS Scanner Screen wave pattern does not. It depends on the player.

There is no justification for the removal of the old ADS, the game can have both. You play with your choice of loadout, I play with mine & we are both happy. There is no downside to this, and no need to compromise on the functionality of the ADS, it can be put back into the game exactly as it was before.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

'people who don't want to spoil their enjoyment of the slow reveal don't have to use it.' - that is a really bad argument. Why should other people have the option of the 'easy' way? Why should my efforts to uncover a system's details be completely time-undervalued by someone just pressing the I WIN button?

If you don't have the 'time' to scan a system, don't try to ruin it for those who do.

Why should my effort to resolve a system's details by flying to each body in turn be completely time-undervalued by someone just playing the I WIN game in the FSS?

If you don't have 'time' to fly around a system, don't try to ruin it for those who do.


Or, alternatively, we could act like mature adults and accept that other people have different ideas of what constitutes fun and give everyone the choice in how they play the game, without worrying about how it affects us.

 

[Riverside]

This is not really a relevant argument though is it - after all, you CAN find the exact same information as before. You just need to actually work for it now.

You think the FSS Scanner Screen search is 'work' compared to actually flying the ship?

In order to get to a point where I can make a meaningful decision on what (if anything) in the system to investigate I need to waste time getting far more info than I need. This is earning me a stack of cash & getting my name on loads of stuff I don't care about, it isn't helping me to quickly eliminate bodies I have no interest in.

The solution is simple. You stop worrying about what others are motivated by, and FDev put the old modules back into the game. It's really simple.

 

[Riverside]

You seem to be basing your opinion of why others like the FSS on a lot of assumptions.

The benefit of 'delaying it's reveal', is because you have to actually PUT EFFORT IN to do so. Look, it doesn't matter if you liked the old system or not. It's gone. The old system was CLEARLY not designed to be the end result, but it took a lot longer than expected to remove the placeholder mechanics. That is unfortunate, but it's the way it is.

The new FSS is designed to make exploration interactive, and also to give people a better chance of finding things that are supposedly still not found. It performs BETTER than the original DSS in that you eventually gain more information out of it the more effort you put into it. In a game, this is how it is supposed to be.

'people who don't want to spoil their enjoyment of the slow reveal don't have to use it.' - that is a really bad argument. Why should other people have the option of the 'easy' way? Why should my efforts to uncover a system's details be completely time-undervalued by someone just pressing the I WIN button?

If you don't have the 'time' to scan a system, don't try to ruin it for those who do.

I am making no assumptions about what motivates other players, I am showing that your own concerns are unwarranted. If the player is concerned about getting a tag on that body first it's all about jump range and nothing to do with the sysmap because you have to sell the data to get the tag.

If you want to get something into the codex first it's not even a contest, the FSS wins in every scenario.

The 'spoiling the surprise' argument is one that came up in a previous thread from Darkfyre99. Different players are motivated by different things. Personally I'd be fine with the full ADS functionality being integrated into the FSS honk but keeping it as a separate module maximises player agency.

 

[Riverside]

You are forgetting that the FSS has more than function. I use the method I mentioned when hunting USSs. I know, I am stupid, but I tend to fully resolve a system when I first enter it, normally immediately prior to fuel scooping if required. I have found that when mat collecting, the USSs will respawn, that is when I use the FSS at speed, only takes a few seconds when you know what you are doing

Can't say I've needed to resolve a USS since 3.3 launched other than to eliminate them from an FSS Scanner Screen search. I'm not looking to change the way the new process works in any way other than the reinstating of the old modules.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

You think the FSS Scanner Screen search is 'work' compared to actually flying the ship?

In order to get to a point where I can make a meaningful decision on what (if anything) in the system to investigate I need to waste time getting far more info than I need. This is earning me a stack of cash & getting my name on loads of stuff I don't care about, it isn't helping me to quickly eliminate bodies I have no interest in.

The solution is simple. You stop worrying about what others are motivated by, and FDev put the old modules back into the game. It's really simple.

I'm still amazed that people who support a tool that allows them to scan an entire system in a matter of seconds over a tool that can take up to an hour to accomplish the same thing believe that the ADS is 'I win' mode. It's not even as if there's any competition in exploration.

 

[Red Anders]

'people who don't want to spoil their enjoyment of the slow reveal don't have to use it.' - that is a really bad argument. Why should other people have the option of the 'easy' way? Why should my efforts to uncover a system's details be completely time-undervalued by someone just pressing the I WIN button?

Just going to thank you for at least having the courage to openly state that it's not enough for you to be happy with playing the game, you also have to know someone else isn't. Nothing that I do in the game can possibly 'devalue' what you do, other than in your own mind since that's the only place it actually has any 'value' to begin with.

By the way, why do you see exploration as a competition? Are you concerned that we're going to run out of planets soon?

 

[NW3]

Making the planet/system scan even more tedious and repetitive with the FSS scanner, definately spoiled the fun in exploration.

Yeah, I'm not too thrilled about some of the exploration changes either, especially the need for new key-bindings.

I do like the planet mapping mini-game and I like the fact that FD did at least give exploration some much-needed attention.

 

[Burke]

I was thinking. Takes light from the sun 8 minutes to reach earth. Its like 5 hours to pluto. FSS is using frame shifting tech, thats why you have to be frameshifting to use it. Its cheating!

edit: wait what?

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

If we are going to continue the discussion, please get it right. The FSS, not the ADS is massive and epic god mode. It removes all work out of the rewards. To mention again:

The ads:

- Nothing but an insignificant amount of an insignificant reward (credits).

The fss:

- A full detailed surface scan.
- Discovery tags, a permanent marker in the game.
- Knowledge of anomalies

All for sitting there and fidgeting for a few moments.

A base state to enable the decision of future exploration is not a reward.

By lore, relatively the ads should be free in all ships, and the fss should be a class 5 module, weight 120 tonnes and cost at least 20 million credits for all the stuff it does for absolutely nothing but some fidgeting while standstill now. Or at least in the same league as the guardian FSD booster its that dramatic (actually i would have had a much easier time accepting the fss if it was gated behind an unnerfed ram tah mission, at least i would have had to earn it).

Its mindboggling that people think the ADS is more "powerful" than the FSS.

 

[LeoBartlet]

I personally love the tuning system, so much so that I would like to see it applied to mining as well. But hey, that's just me.

Yes the more mini-games the better.

Perhaps Frontier might look into the idea of porting the game to mobile as the current mini-games have all the depth and complexity of candy crush.

 

[Amargosa]

LOL, might as well just put it into a station at Beagle Point then.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

Can't say I've needed to resolve a USS since 3.3 launched other than to eliminate them from an FSS Scanner Screen search. I'm not looking to change the way the new process works in any way other than the reinstating of the old modules.

If you have USS in the FSS, then you are doing something wrong. If you get USS you are basically in the bubble and therefore don't even have to setup keybindings for the FSS.
USS spawn on system entry and are everywhere to be found by flying around.
System map is populated with all the planets and moons and flying around will give you all the detail scans you once had to get by pointing at the objects.
You don't have to do anything actively anymore in the bubble.

Out side the bubble, no problems with USSs. Just a relaxing stream of BlueBlob™ screens. Just set the frequency scanner to ice world and … just stay in the bubble.

 

[jasonbarron]

Just going to thank you for at least having the courage to openly state that it's not enough for you to be happy with playing the game, you also have to know someone else isn't. Nothing that I do in the game can possibly 'devalue' what you do, other than in your own mind since that's the only place it actually has any 'value' to begin with.

By the way, why do you see exploration as a competition? Are you concerned that we're going to run out of planets soon?

When you go on an expedition such as the DWE I can guarantee you that there is a competition to get back home and claim first discoveries.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

Yes the more mini-games the better.

Perhaps Frontier might look into the idea of porting the game to mobile as the current mini-games have all the depth and complexity of candy crush.

FSS: BlueBlob ™ Hunt ™ might actually be a quite fun AR game on a phone.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

When you go on an expedition such as the DWE I can guarantee you that there is a competition to get back home and claim first discoveries.

The first to tag beagle point or sagittarius A*? Taking a guided tour with entertainment program - yea, this is going to be a competition.