If I wanted a 'radio-tuning' game I would have rather bought an old radio.

[Daniel Cloudsifter]

Nope, no more jump-honk out in deep space. That's the source of (almost) all the complaints.

Nobody (seriously) wants the FSS to go away - just the option not to have to use it outside the Bubble.

The DSS is definitely an improvement, no argument there. If I'm picky I'd say it's a little over-powered, but it's still way better than eyeballing.

Well hopefully they'll fix it so you can do it the old way in truly unexplored space. Doesn't make much sense for it to auto-resolve in one area and not another.

I don't think the new DSS is overpowered. If it is, that is surely offset by the fact that you have to get extremely close to the target (way closer than you did before to do a detailed planetary scan).

Honestly, I'm surprised people aren't complaining about the situation in the bubble. Why are all these systems that I've been to frequently for the last 3 years all listed as "unexplored" now? Also, a nav beacon scan will change the status on all the objects so they are no longer "unexplored" but if you want to know what minerals are on the planets, you still have to use the FSS scan (or fly close to the planets).

Again, hopefully they'll make the changes so you can do things the old/hard way if you want. I really don't see why they couldn't/shouldn't since you can in the Bubble. However, I'd prefer they fix the game freezes and the frequent server disconnects (transaction server errors) first.

 

[Brian of Ardagh]

Nope, no more jump-honk out in deep space. That's the source of (almost) all the complaints.

Nobody (seriously) wants the FSS to go away - just the option not to have to use it outside the Bubble.

The DSS is definitely an improvement, no argument there. If I'm picky I'd say it's a little over-powered, but it's still way better than eyeballing.

I’ve seen quite a few posts asking for the return of the ADS but your post seems to imply you’d be happy with the FSS just showing limited info on the system map for truly unexplored bodies. I don’t think that’s a bad idea at all, even in the bubble that would be very useful, albeit maybe too powerful. You’d be able to see at a glance all of the bodies and could easily tell if there’s one that wasn’t previously discovered.

I don’t see that as a problem. FD would need to decide just how much info is revealed with the initial honk, too much and it makes the FSS a little redundant, too little and it might be of no use.

 

[Brrokk]

You mean like an "instantly explore distant planet" button so that you can get first discovered tags without messing around with flying a spaceship?

You do realize that we're asking for the ability to make the game HARDER for ourselves, by doing away with the long-range scanning functionality?
Most, if not all, of us don't even want the planet types displayed on the original honk - just the ability to target them and fly to them.

It's the "instantly populate system map" button idea I'm objecting to, by suggesting a similar one for combat which is obviously ridiculous.

 

[Old Duck]

Doesn't make much sense for it to auto-resolve in one area and not another.

The theory is that cartographic data is now shared, so if anyone scans a system, that data is available for everyone. The one very stupid caveat is that you actually have to visit the system and honk it in order to "unlock" this shared data. Since it is now officially shared, I'd love to be able to pull up the system map (showing only discovered planets, of course), from the comfort of the Bubble, of any and all systems in the galaxy that have been explored. You know, like an atlas or Google Maps.

Exploration in ED is the equivalent to nobody in Europe ever knowing that America was already discovered, so you all just keep sending your explorers here, only to have them leave in disappointment when they arrive and see we were discovered long ago.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

It's the "instantly populate system map" button idea I'm objecting to, by suggesting a similar one for combat which is obviously ridiculous.

So what is your objection to it?
And does that objection apply to the behavior of the FSS in explored systems, or only to an ADS-replacement version?

 

[lenna]

Nobody (seriously) wants the FSS to go away - just the option not to have to use it outside the Bubble.

If the option is there to get rid of the FSS and Space Golf - I would say do it! If there is an option to avoid us having to engage in either - then I would accept it, as it stands there is no realistic alternative to either thanks to Frontiers abysmal implementation decisions in this matter.

The DSS is definitely an improvement, no argument there. If I'm picky I'd say it's a little over-powered, but it's still way better than eyeballing.

I am sorry but I totally disagree - the implementation is absolutely dire and irredeemable. There are other options they could of taken but they took the worst way possible IMO.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

I’ve seen quite a few posts asking for the return of the ADS but your post seems to imply you’d be happy with the FSS just showing limited info on the system map for truly unexplored bodies. I don’t think that’s a bad idea at all, even in the bubble that would be very useful, albeit maybe too powerful. You’d be able to see at a glance all of the bodies and could easily tell if there’s one that wasn’t previously discovered.

I don’t see that as a problem. FD would need to decide just how much info is revealed with the initial honk, too much and it makes the FSS a little redundant, too little and it might be of no use.

'Return of the ADS' is, in most cases, shorthand for "targetable bodies in the Nav Panel and/or System Map", rather than really returning the ADS - and always as an optional module, rather than included in the FSS functionality. Some people want to keep the discovery process as manual as possible, so automatically populating the System Map breaks their gameplay, so to allow them to play their way and me to play mine, the System Map population needs to be separate.

My personal preference for the information shown in the System Map is just mass and temperature - then I can estimate the probabilities of ELWs/terraformables/etc and go explore appropriately.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

I am sorry but I totally disagree - the implementation is absolutely dire and irredeemable. There are other options they could of taken but they took the worst way possible IMO.

What's your preference for surface POI discovery?
Mine is 'hotspots' so I can still explore, without needing to cover the whole surface.

 

[Daniel Cloudsifter]

The theory is that cartographic data is now shared, so if anyone scans a system, that data is available for everyone. The one very stupid caveat is that you actually have to visit the system and honk it in order to "unlock" this shared data. Since it is now officially shared, I'd love to be able to pull up the system map (showing only discovered planets, of course), from the comfort of the Bubble, of any and all systems in the galaxy that have been explored. You know, like an atlas or Google Maps.

Exploration in ED is the equivalent to nobody in Europe ever knowing that America was already discovered, so you all just keep sending your explorers here, only to have them leave in disappointment when they arrive and see we were discovered long ago.

Yeah, I remember when they announced that all the information would be shared. I figured that on the plus side, that meant any system previously explored would be viewable by all of us without having to travel there. On the downside, that meant the "road to riches" travel for money would be gone, since once explored, nothing left to see. Instead, we have a total mess. I've got tons of in-bubble systems that I traveled to/through all the time now listed as unexplored and can't be viewed remotely. Why?


I love the new FSS and Probes. I'm not happy with all the inconsistencies elsewhere.

 

[Ian Skippy]

I’ve seen quite a few posts asking for the return of the ADS but your post seems to imply you’d be happy with the FSS just showing limited info on the system map for truly unexplored bodies. I don’t think that’s a bad idea at all, even in the bubble that would be very useful, albeit maybe too powerful. You’d be able to see at a glance all of the bodies and could easily tell if there’s one that wasn’t previously discovered.

I don’t see that as a problem. FD would need to decide just how much info is revealed with the initial honk, too much and it makes the FSS a little redundant, too little and it might be of no use.

Those unhappy tend to want myriad different things. Its not just two sides.

 

[Brrokk]

So what is your objection to it?
And does that objection apply to the behavior of the FSS in explored systems, or only to an ADS-replacement version?

Well, this has been done to death in this and similar threads already, but briefly my objections are:

The press-one-button honk was so obviously a placeholder and the game is greatly improved by getting rid of it in favour of a proper exploration mechanic.

Keeping it would lead to exploits such as disabling the FSS, honking to populate the system map, then enabling the FSS if any planets in the map look blue.

The honk is immersion-breaking, featuring as it does faster-than-light information gathering and implausible telescope power and speed.

Calls for the honk to be restored are IMHO motivated by laziness, wanting the benefits of exploration without actually doing it, just as my "explode targeted NPC" button would be if I was serious about it.

 

[Stigbob]

"explode targeted NPC" button

I've got one of those I call it the trigger.

 

[Zieman]

The honk is immersion-breaking, featuring as it does faster-than-light information gathering and implausible telescope power and speed.

Like the FSS didn't...[weird]

 

[Tarman]

Well, this has been done to death in this and similar threads already, but briefly my objections are:

The press-one-button honk was so obviously a placeholder and the game is greatly improved by getting rid of it in favour of a proper exploration mechanic.

Keeping it would lead to exploits such as disabling the FSS, honking to populate the system map, then enabling the FSS if any planets in the map look blue.

The honk is immersion-breaking, featuring as it does faster-than-light information gathering and implausible telescope power and speed.

Calls for the honk to be restored are IMHO motivated by laziness, wanting the benefits of exploration without actually doing it, just as my "explode targeted NPC" button would be if I was serious about it.

Considering Drew would like to drive out to the ends of the system AS his gameplay, I'd say your call of laziness is unwarranted at least in his case, unless you consider that he may be asleep for some of those really far-gone system backwaters.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Well, this has been done to death in this and similar threads already, but briefly my objections are:

The press-one-button honk was so obviously a placeholder and the game is greatly improved by getting rid of it in favour of a proper exploration mechanic.

Keeping it would lead to exploits such as disabling the FSS, honking to populate the system map, then enabling the FSS if any planets in the map look blue.

The honk is immersion-breaking, featuring as it does faster-than-light information gathering and implausible telescope power and speed.

Calls for the honk to be restored are IMHO motivated by laziness, wanting the benefits of exploration without actually doing it, just as my "explode targeted NPC" button would be if I was serious about it.

Taking your points one by one:

1. Having both mechanics in place wouldn't have been detrimental to the game
2. The FSS already tells you immediately whether there are ELWs or WW in the system, so messing around between system map and FSS is completely unnecessary
3. An optional module that you don't fit will not affect your immersion. The FSS does FTL information gathering and has far superior telescope power
4. The FSS provides far more benefits than the ADS, at the minor cost of playing an unfailable minigame for 30 seconds. It's far more 'explode targeted NPC' than the ADS ever was

IMHO your arguments are rubbish.

 

[Brian of Ardagh]

Those unhappy tend to want myriad different things. Its not just two sides.

Oh, I understand that, I’ve been around here long enough to know that FD has the unenviable job of herding cats. FD can either keep the new system unchanged and never discuss the fact that some people don’t like it or some aspects of it or they can find some compromise.

The problem with compromise is there will always be those that think the compromise is too much and others that think it goes too far. Not to mention those that like or dislike a compromise on principle.

I think there are quite a few people that think that a honk outside the bubble is the same as in the bubble. I was under that mistaken impression but now know otherwise. In my opinion having undiscovered systems show up as black wireframe bodies after a honk isn’t a bad compromise, no surface map, limited information like mass and size. All other info would require the FSS or flying to the object. The DSS would still be required for mapping and surface POIs, without maybe you could get general hotspot info from the surface scan but no targetable POI and no data on the exact nature of the POI.

 

[Burke]

compromise

The thing to remember about compromise and those that complain about it is that we already had the honk. They took away something (i paid for). If you are moaning about compromise then your position is all about taking that away from the people who enjoyed it. It is therfore imo invalid.

 

[Brrokk]

Taking your points one by one:

1. Having both mechanics in place wouldn't have been detrimental to the game
2. The FSS already tells you immediately whether there are ELWs or WW in the system, so messing around between system map and FSS is completely unnecessary
3. An optional module that you don't fit will not affect your immersion. The FSS does FTL information gathering and has far superior telescope power
4. The FSS provides far more benefits than the ADS, at the minor cost of playing an unfailable minigame for 30 seconds. It's far more 'explode targeted NPC' than the ADS ever was

IMHO your arguments are rubbish.

I'd say that having the placeholder still in place alongside the proper mechanic which should supercede it would definitely be detrimental to the game.

I think I can dream up exploits, depending on the exact implementation of a parallel system.

I can convince myself that the FSS isn't doing anything faster than light. (It receives and categorises lightspeed signals, and does telescopic observation based on them).

What's wrong with "unfailable"? Would anyone really prefer that incautiously pressing the wrong button could make a planet undiscoverable forever?

But as I said, this has already been done to death in several copies of this thread. I see no prospect that FD would backtrack so badly.

 

[Brian of Ardagh]

The thing to remember about compromise and those that complain about it is that we already had the honk. They took away something (i paid for). If you are moaning about compromise then your position is all about taking that away from the people who enjoyed it. It is therfore imo invalid.

I’m not “moaning” about compromising, but if you aren’t open to compromise then there’s no need for discussion. I’m okay with the new FSS/DSS but I’m not against changes that would make some players happier. But I seriously doubt that any level of discussion will bring back the ADS alongside or in place of the new system.

 

[Burke]

I’m not “moaning” about compromising, but if you aren’t open to compromise then there’s no need for discussion. I’m okay with the new FSS/DSS but I’m not against changes that would make some players happier. But I seriously doubt that any level of discussion will bring back the ADS alongside or in place of the new system.

There are some whos world would end if the old honk came back. I know you arnt moaning