PvP Any CMDR's good at PvP using HOTAS?

[bobr0ck]

First post here, mainly using reddit, here it goes . I know that Mouse has more precision and control for yaw and pitch than a joystick, but i refuse to go to Keyboard Mouse as it ruins the immersions of flying for me so I know I'm at disadvantage when using Fixed and Joystick. I have over 700 hours in game and I just started again doing some Power Play PvP and CG PvP, but it so hard with joystick. Trying to do specific Build (krait MK II and FDL) which compliments Joystick, have reasonable success with PA and Frag Cannons but missing those PA shots way to often and Rail Guns are almost unusable at the moment using Joystick.

Any CMDR that has mastered Joystick and fixed and can give advice on setup and some pointers?

Does it get easier if you stick with it? I'll spend month using nothing but fixed and Joystick and see how it works out.

The setup that I use is "Thrustmaster T-Flight Stick X" and using joystick Curves to help with dead zones and sensitivity. I know it's entry level Joystick, not sure if there is huge difference in aiming using more "expensive" HOTAS?

Thanks!

 

[Troy_McClure]

I use the same hardware & curves as you but I've given some very good PvPers a kicking on my day...or more often, a good fight that ultimately, I lose. (& when I say good PvPers, I mean some of the absolute best who play 24/7); I've beaten a few from the PvP league teams which was a bit of a surprise as I'm a fairly irregular player these days, but I kept recognising names of those I'd beaten when I watched a few of the fights.

Rails & Plasma is the meta & this weaponry is more a matter of timing/hand-eye coordination which is perfectly viable with a Hotas-X. Other fine-adjustment weps such as multicannons & beam lasers are much harder to use with the lower quality hardware.

Dedicated PvPers will often have monitors with high refresh & low response/input lag plus pro gaming mice or top of the range Hotas such as Virpil, VKB or Warthog with pedals (even the T16000 which has the same hall sensors as the Warthog) plus macros for their pips, tactics honed with other PVpers since that's all they play for (I'm not sure if VR gives an advantage as I've only tried it briefly but I imagine the visual spatial aspect is rather helpful) etc etc.

One positive note: At least we all have the opportunity to get optimum engineering now, whereas I once PvP'd with a DD5 34% multiplier with a -10% thruster optimal mass thinking it was awesome, in that it was by far my best RNG roll in ~100 attempts...turned out those stats were decidedly average (after a few post-fight chats).

Bottom line - there's always someone with an advantage so embrace this & enjoy the challenge. [big grin]

 

[bobr0ck]

I think after 700 hours I should be better at PvP, but I always got frustrated using Joystick & Fixed and went back to full gimbals setup then got chaffed to death and the damage output is not that great either. I think I'll stick now to Joystick & Fixed just to see if I can get better at it. The random PvP encounter I get sometimes in ED is really great and enjoyable but I just get annihilated due to reliance on gimbals.

 

[Arguendo]

I think after 700 hours I should be better at PvP

Only if a large portion of those hours are actually PvP. What Troy_McClure said; remember that a lof of the people you face off against do nothing but PvP! (unless they're grinding so they can buy/upgrade their PvP ship). It takes hours and hours of practice to get to the "next level". PvE fighting is in no way transferrable to PvP. Well, except that you have to push some buttons and move a stick to make your ship shoot and move ofcourse.

It's not impossible, but it definitely is quite a bit harder with a joystick, especially if you fly FA OFF. The control you get with KB+M combined with relative mouse far surpasses any joystick. Some however have gotten really, really good with a HOTAS setup (HOSAS for quite a few to be honest), but those are quite rare in the top of the PvP scale. Most on the top are KB+M...for a reason.

 

[Starmony]

I used a Thrustmaster HOTAS X for PVP for about three years and thought it was fine and that the challenges (like flying flight assist off most of the time) were just a matter of practice and skill, but I was wrong. When I upgraded to a T.16000M last summer and set up curves I discovered that I had been severely hampered by the equipment. The precision of the new stick & additional of analog thruster control on the throttle had a very obvious and noticeable difference after a few weeks of getting used to it.

So yes...in my experience there's a huge difference when you go from a cheap joystick to one with better precision and control options. If all you were going to do is trading, exploration, mining, and PVE combat, the T-Flight X is fine and a great deal. If you're serious about shooting other CMDRs, though, and want to not be hampered by equipment when turning off flight assist and using plasma and rails, consider shelling out another $75 or so and get the T.16000.

 

[TEBORI]

and when you change to buttons (keypad) and relative mouse you have the same improvement a second time.

i was not bad with HOSAS (dualstick) as you can see in this video flying full fa off with 4 rails and plasma

Spoiler

[video=youtube_share;_jOeOvGwcf4]https://youtu.be/_jOeOvGwcf4[/video]

but changing to buttons and mouse set up correctly the difference was just crazy.
of course i was able to addapt many technics and knowledge i used with HOSAS in FAOFF combat but this was only after a few hours practice in combat szone with it in the first week i did the change.
5 fixed multicannons used in pvp. there was not even a think about doing this with HOSAS or HOTAS before

Spoiler

[video=youtube_share;UUdMC6y4YHk]https://youtu.be/UUdMC6y4YHk[/video]

the difference is based on 3 facts imho
1. the precision of the mouse itself
2. the relative mouse game mechanic (set up correctly its like a flight stabilicer in fa off - overpowered but hell of fun)
3. all 6 thrusters are activated 100% or 0% (with buttons) which leads to more correct and (thats more important) much faster manouvers. thrusters do a lot of work in flying faoff combat so this is essential

 

[Troy_McClure]

and when you change to buttons (keypad) and relative mouse you have the same improvement a second time.

i was not bad with HOSAS (dualstick) as you can see in this video flying full fa off with 4 rails and plasma


but changing to buttons and mouse set up correctly the difference was just crazy.
of course i was able to addapt many technics and knowledge i used with HOSAS in FAOFF combat but this was only after a few hours practice in combat szone with it in the first week i did the change.
5 fixed multicannons used in pvp. there was not even a think about doing this with HOSAS or HOTAS before


the difference is based on 3 facts imho
1. the precision of the mouse itself
2. the relative mouse game mechanic (set up correctly its like a flight stabilicer in fa off - overpowered but hell of fun)
3. all 6 thrusters are activated 100% or 0% (with buttons) which leads to more correct and (thats more important) much faster manouvers. thrusters do a lot of work in flying faoff combat so this is essential

I agree generally, although the top-end hotas's - as mentioned in my first post - are as almost as good accuracy-wise & there are plenty of hats! Before the FDL was buffed & I subsequently garaged it in disgust, I was a FDL aficionado using FAOFF primarily (this used to be a necessity with the less manoeuvrable version) with a KB&M set up.

Relative mouse is a great addition for FAOFF KB&M users in combat, but many of us simply love the feel of actually piloting our ships rather than doing a PowerPoint presentation with them; hence I'd rather fly with a Hotas-X with significantly less accuracy, purely for my own "i word". [big grin]

 

[TEBORI]

well the most important fact is you get the most fun out of it flying those ships.

at the moment i have most fun with azeron keypad + relative mouse.
the precision and combat speed is insaene and the immersion is nice.

but i know what you mean i argumented nearly the same term when i flew hosas. and i can fully understand it.

 

[TheMegaTurnip]

Yup.

Hotas is real flying, joystick curves are the equivelent of TCS, ABS, and STM in a racing game. Pilot Aid.

Mouse i'd imagine is pretty accurate, but keyboards are often dont have velocity sensors and a key is either on or off, meaning your movement is hampered, you might be able to be more accurate, but definatly not more mobile.

Also your throttle control is just better on a hotas, no contest whatsoever.

 

[Deleted member 110222]

I certainly fly better with a HOTAS than M&K.

We don't talk about what happens when I fly M&K... Lest you incur the wrath of the Maker.

 

[Herbrand]

I used a Hotas for a long time, but never tried PvP seriously during that time. After doing so, I switched to double joysticks to fly FA Off, but the results kinda lack to be desired.

-my problem for the main hand is that small corrections are a nightmare: you have to move the joystick down, and it will still input motion until it reach the deadzone, so when you get out of the other end you have to counter both the small amount of motion you kept inputting and be absolutely precise in how much counter-movement you use. Basically, you CANNOT use railguns effectively if you use a joystick for pitch/yaw-roll - a skilled mouse user will outshoot you by a LARGE margin.

-my problem with the left hand is that, while it's cool to have a joystick with analog input for thrusters, most of the time in PvP you need your thrusters to be either fully ON or fully OFF, and you need that at a drop of a hat - keys work so much better for it. I have since ordered an Azeron Gamepad on suggestion by Akuma, and I will need to re-learn a new peripheral with it.

All in all, I value immersion more than combat efficiency - if I will not be a top-tier PvPer because of my preferred control scheme so be it. This is, however, the limits I experienced while trying my hand at it.