Void Opals have created amazing emergent gameplay

allowing for that bug to exist would mean that the aspE will stay THE ship for mining because its unique hardpoint placement (up to 5 abrasion blaster hitting same target - especially with multicrew support)
Yes an no...

Changing the "bug" into a viable mechanic (nuance) could mean it being changed so combined multiple hits means a random number of fragments for example upto a maximum upto three? Three blasters will not guarantee 3 fragments, but give you a chance at it.

As we know, other ships (bigger ones) do not have the capability to managed more than say two reliably, so it gives some smaller ships a quirk of potentially getting say upto 3 if they so wish to outfit that way ;)

It just adds to variety and small workable angles/quirks to the mechanics...

Note: Personally I find it bizarre FD are so quick to address this when all the rest of mining from the outset is so clearly out of wack.
 
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Yes an no...

Changing the "bug" into a viable mechanic (nuance) could mean it being changed so combined multiple hits means a random number of fragments for example upto a maximum upto three? Three blasters will not guarantee 3 fragments, but give you a chance at it.

As we know, other ships (bigger ones) do not have the capability to managed more than say two reliably, so it gives some smaller ships a quirk of potentially getting say upto 3 if they so wish to outfit that way ;)

It just adds to variety and small workable angles/quirks to the mechanics...

Note: Personally I find it bizarre FD are so quick to address this when all the rest of mining from the outset is so clearly out of wack.

if they make that my asteroid yield is increased per mining laser, yes, then its ok to leave the magical multiplier for abrasion blaster.
when you blow up an asteroid, you usually get ~two more surface nodes per asteroid fragment. that would be 8 more nodes on 4 fragments. (~12mio credits)
with an asp, you get up to 5 times of that - thats 64mio credits. 48millions alone from exploiting a bug.

there is nothing bizarre about it beeing fixed ASAP. and it doesn't looks like the fix will happen in a rushed hotfix anyway, just in the next bugfix patch together with hopfefully many other serious bugs
 
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if they make that my asteroid yield is increased per mining laser, yes, then its ok to leave the magical multiplier for abrasion blaster.
when you blow up an asteroid, you usually get ~two more surface nodes per asteroid fragment. that would be 8 more nodes on 4 fragments. (~12mio credits)
with an asp, you get up to 5 times of that - thats 64mio credits. 48millions alone from exploiting a bug.

there is nothing bizarre about it beeing fixed ASAP. and it doesn't looks like the fix will happen in a rushed hotfix anyway, just in the next bugfix patch together with hopfefully many other serious bugs

Are you actually reading what I'm writing? :)

So even with three or more abrasion blasters (more than three would be pointless), with some simple balancing it could return for example something like:-
80% of the time: One fragment
10% of the time: Two fragments
10% of the time: Three fragments

Or with two, something like:-
80% of the time: One fragment
20% of the time: Two fragments

So there's a nuance to it, not a game changing guaranteed huge bug/exploit.

So most of the time you only get one fragment... But there's like a 1/5 chance of getting more... Not a huge exploit, but a nice "angle" to consider.

Handwavium explanation? Multiple Abrasion Blasters can extract more from the surface deposit. A single one might not remove all of it. More might.


Note: More mining lasers already reward for faster extraction and faster mining. ie: More income per hour!
 
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So even with three or more abrasion blasters (more than three would be pointless), with some simple balancing it could return for example something like:-
80% of the time: One fragment
10% of the time: Two fragments
10% of the time: Three fragments

Not the guy you were responding, not disagreeing, just weighing in with a slightly different POV.

First off, there already is an aspect of partial reward to this. As far as I can tell, you can really only get full 5x multiple fragments in one of two ways:

1 - at about 800m, stand perfectly still, let all fixed points "mini-gimbal" to single convergence, fire
2 - point blank (optionally deselect target, this helps on the 3s challenger/chief smalls, not sure on asp)

Neither of these actually guarantee 5 fragments, although #1 is close if you are slow and conscientious about it and always fire oriented 90 degree perpendicular to the face of the deposit from ~800m

2 is definitely hit or miss, often yielding 1,2,3 or 4 instead of 5.

A very good pilot might have option #3, which is get mini-gimbal convergence from variable ranges while in motion, although I feel this would be a modest portion of CMDRs, especially running a low shield asp which faces real danger from rock collision.

Anyway, my completely-unjustified-by-data guess is that for inexperienced CMDRs who just jump on the opal bandwagon... they probably shoot while in slight random motion without the fixed points converged, and usually just get 1 or 2 fragments. And they don't even realize it because even single frag yield is 1000% more credits than they've ever had, and few would take the bother to deactivate collectors, look at contacts and count floating fragments before and after their shot, and then subtract (this is one way to be sure how much your shot yielded).

Moderately experienced CMDRs and above who've used railed or fixed lasers, probably averaging 4 or 5.

What I'd like to see is something more like a bullseye effect, and the broken asteroid pieces are spinning faster. So if you could fly like an ace, and match your motion to the spin of the asteroid to get a good center shot, that would be rewarded. Or (easier but less fun/challenging/whatever), you could anticipate where the spin will lead to, and aim at a spot ahead of time, standing still and waiting for right moment to fire. A dead center hit could yield 2 fragments, a glancing blow just one. Something like that.

To me this would be more fun and reward skilled play. Even with current mechanic I usually just run one blaster anwyay. This is not because I believe in this whole "unfair" or "exploit" or whatever, but just because by forcing myself to remain moving, in blue zone, avoiding collisions and primarily using verts and lats to control motion while aiming the blaster - is good piloting practice and more fun for me. It's also a way to step up ones fa-off skills.

I also think the bullseye mechanic would be a bit more palatable to folks who object the current mechanic is "unrealistic/obvious bug/whatever". It's quite common that skilled aim and use of firearms gives better results, so why not here. Bad shots cook away portions of the mineral, or push them further into the rock. [Insert needless hand waving explanation here]

o7 and I do like your thinking of alternate behaviors. I just don't like tying it to RNG instead of skill - there's enough RNG in the game, and if it's RNG based then someone will likely min max a build for it 10 minutes after the mechanic is released (and it will probably still be asp5X.)
 
I'd hardly call moar combat "ermergent".

So when I asked a 3 ship noob wing silly ED lore questions in some high traffic station, rewarding correct answers with opals, or incorrect answers with scary talk and easier follow up answers, was that just "moar combat". It certainly didn't seem so when one of them crushed 10 tons of opals because he didn't know how to cargo scoop (I was dying laughing) - at which point I taught them to use collectors. "Moar combat"?

How about when I comms and then interdicted a shiny new opalvette, found empty cargo holds, and instructed him free to go.. and was then fired upon despite my offer. At which point I rapidly cured him of his terribly misguided perception of what an unengineered opalvette can do vs. a moderately stacked pirate challenger?

The lesson was most effective because I offered mercy at 30% hull, which he happily accepted. He was both panicked and laughing on comms and immediately friend req'ed me, and now asks me for advice on all kinds of stuff. Was that just "moar combat" or was it something that wouldn't have happened without opals? Something "emergent"?

I get it that a lot of people have no interest in PvP and that's just fine with me. What I don't get is your disdain for something you don't like. I don't distain mobious. I wouldn't use it, but I think it makes perfect sense some find it really fun.

It seems a hard pill to swallow, and I do realize there's a lot of repetitive comm-less "see ship, shoot ship" which must suck for people who don't want to deal with it.

But some of us like the role play, some of us like the wackiness. A few years back, The "shapsugabus" ran a masterful trivia game in open where correct answers got fun purple spinnies and chaff, and speed rounds involved answering questions before the beam lazer melted the shields. They posted great videos. I think void opals could lead to fun nonsense like that.

So yes, it has created emergent gamplay, although I'd prefer to call it wacky fun time. And if that's not for you, great. I don't pester people who don't comms back or otherwise are clearly having no fun.

EDIT PS. Leper Messiah is an underrated song \m/ \m/
 
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Not the guy you were responding, not disagreeing, just weighing in with a slightly different POV.
Oops! I did? Soz!

First off, there already is an aspect of partial reward to this. As far as I can tell, you can really only get full 5x multiple fragments in one of two ways:

1 - at about 800m, stand perfectly still, let all fixed points "mini-gimbal" to single convergence, fire
2 - point blank (optionally deselect target, this helps on the 3s challenger/chief smalls, not sure on asp)

Neither of these actually guarantee 5 fragments, although #1 is close if you are slow and conscientious about it and always fire oriented 90 degree perpendicular to the face of the deposit from ~800m

2 is definitely hit or miss, often yielding 1,2,3 or 4 instead of 5.

A very good pilot might have option #3, which is get mini-gimbal convergence from variable ranges while in motion, although I feel this would be a modest portion of CMDRs, especially running a low shield asp which faces real danger from rock collision.

Anyway, my completely-unjustified-by-data guess is that for inexperienced CMDRs who just jump on the opal bandwagon... they probably shoot while in slight random motion without the fixed points converged, and usually just get 1 or 2 fragments. And they don't even realize it because even single frag yield is 1000% more credits than they've ever had, and few would take the bother to deactivate collectors, look at contacts and count floating fragments before and after their shot, and then subtract (this is one way to be sure how much your shot yielded).

Moderately experienced CMDRs and above who've used railed or fixed lasers, probably averaging 4 or 5.

What I'd like to see is something more like a bullseye effect, and the broken asteroid pieces are spinning faster. So if you could fly like an ace, and match your motion to the spin of the asteroid to get a good center shot, that would be rewarded. Or (easier but less fun/challenging/whatever), you could anticipate where the spin will lead to, and aim at a spot ahead of time, standing still and waiting for right moment to fire. A dead center hit could yield 2 fragments, a glancing blow just one. Something like that.

To me this would be more fun and reward skilled play. Even with current mechanic I usually just run one blaster anwyay. This is not because I believe in this whole "unfair" or "exploit" or whatever, but just because by forcing myself to remain moving, in blue zone, avoiding collisions and primarily using verts and lats to control motion while aiming the blaster - is good piloting practice and more fun for me. It's also a way to step up ones fa-off skills.

I also think the bullseye mechanic would be a bit more palatable to folks who object the current mechanic is "unrealistic/obvious bug/whatever". It's quite common that skilled aim and use of firearms gives better results, so why not here. Bad shots cook away portions of the mineral, or push them further into the rock. [Insert needless hand waving explanation here]

o7 and I do like your thinking of alternate behaviors. I just don't like tying it to RNG instead of skill - there's enough RNG in the game, and if it's RNG based then someone will likely min max a build for it 10 minutes after the mechanic is released (and it will probably still be asp5X.)
Understood... But the problem is, if multiple fragments can be almost guaranteed, then it becomes more of an exploit resulting in multiple times more income, which is game changing.

Making instead more blasters means a small %age chance of more fragments sometimes, means you're simply playing the odds and get a nice small bonus, not a guaranteed additional amount in the realms of an exploit?

But yes, if "aim" can be tied into the number of fragments instead... Fine... ;)


BUT! TBH, I think surface deposit mining it already tawdry and too slow, so slowing it down even more with more aiming? IMHO, surface deposits should be fast and furious, compared to the more considered gameplay of sub-surface and fissures. IMHO, abrasion blasters should be more like counter measures, automatically aiming and shooting at any surface deposits in line of sight/range. We should be fitting multiple of them to large ships to give all round coverage. So surface deposits should be mined as quickly/franticly/efficiently as possible, making a distinct pace difference and gameplay difference to the aim and consideration required for sub-surface and fissures.
 
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BUT! TBH, I think surface deposit mining it already tawdry and too slow, so slowing it down even more with more aiming? IMHO, surface deposits should be fast and furious, compared to the more considered gameplay of sub-surface and fissures. IMHO, abrasion blasters should be more like counter measures, automatically aiming and shooting at any surface deposits in line of sight/range. We should be fitting multiple of them to large ships to give all round coverage. So surface deposits should be mined as quickly/franticly/efficiently as possible, making a distinct pace difference and gameplay difference to the aim and consideration required for sub-surface and fissures.

That could be fun too.

I personally like this way, because it rewards circle strafing (which I'm already good at, and want to become even better) as well as good target leading and the delayed firing mechanism of the abrasion blaster (which is suspiciously like a railgun). And that latter part, I'm definitely not as good at as circle strafing and want practice on, particularly the railgun-eqsue part, which is an important weapon I can't utilize to true potential.

But sure open minded to other fun stuff instead.

I think the slow part is finding the cores. I'd like to see A rated scanner take 1/2 the current draw and have twice the range.
 
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I think the slow part is finding the cores. I'd like to see A rated scanner take 1/2 the current draw and have twice the range.
Which brings us to the whole out of wack current mechanics of course. Mining (financial mining) should not have a go to gameplay design of motherlode->motherlode->motherlode. The current mechanics are so out of wack this is not only the go to gameplay loop, but in truth the only loop available. ie: Regular surface deposits and sub-surface deposits are completely written out via the current design and balance.

But that's another thread of course...
 
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Which brings us to the whole out of wack current mechanics of course. Mining (financial mining) should not have a go to gameplay design of motherlode->motherlode->motherlode. The current mechanics are so out of wack this is not only the go to gameplay loop, but in truth the only loop available. ie: Regular surface deposits and sub-surface deposits are completely written out via the current design and balance.

But that's another thread of course...

This is all true, but I wasn't in beta and hated the previous mining so to me it's basically a straight upgrade with no real downside. I just ignore the parts that don't work, like I always did once I unlocked the 500 ton engineer, and now use the one part that actually works.
 
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if the DEVs wanted to have a twich component to the abrasion blaster - then they would have implemented it like they proposed in the first focused feedback about it.
and that didn't require more then one blaster and was way better then the suggested randomness for using multiple blasters here.
 
The new mining has seriously re-engaged my attention in PVE because it is fun—something which tends to be overshadowed in Elite by the hairshirty ethic that has been allowed to grow up over the past few updates. The game needs less grind and more pure fun, and while boid opals are rare, blowing up asteroids surely is awesome. If Frontier can only bring themselves to dial up the fun, and dial down the grind, then the game has a really bright future. For example if insurance was lower and C&P was less of a pain, I would PVP more, but as it is, the negatives outweigh the positives. Maybe we just need to tell Frontier that games are supposed to be more enjoyable than doing the ironing?
 
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