Anti ADS people JUSTIFY your no compromise stance here.

[Villeruff]

Selfish reasons are NEVER valid to circumnavigate a reasonable compromise.

Agreed it adds gameplay, I like it. But even though the old way had no gameplay OTHERS built gameplay around it. So you're saying "I like it sod the others"? There's a compromise you know, bring it back as a CHOICE!

You need a reason for that first bit, caps don't make it convincing, or any compromise necessarily reasonable.

It doesn't matter if they built gameplay around it, I built gameplay around there being no engineers and no PowerPlay bots, but look where we are. The compromise I made was adjusting my gameplay instead of uninstalling, and the game is still fantastic. I'd contend that the verisimilitude part of what I said is equally important, but you ignored it. The ADS is just silly on its face in a game that is built around science and is supposed to make its players feel like space nerds.

 

[Jukelo]

I mentioned that because it is a slight extra disadvantage to having the ADS back as a module.
FSS is FAR more overpowered than the ADS, so by your reasoning should be got rid of? If you disagree then say why.

The FSS is not 'far more overpowered', although we are entering the dangerous territory of by what measure do we tell something is OP in exploration. And since a lot of people have different views of what exploration is and what their goals are, the only measure we can accept is FD's. And their view is one purely based on credits and player engagement.
The ADS allowed player to home in on the most valuable targets at the cost of virtually no player engagement. You opened the system map, selected the WW or ELW, let your ship fly there and waited. Minimal player effort, maximum payout.
The FSS requires the player to engage in the mechanic if they want to maximize their profit. And if we want to argue the FSS doesn't require all that much work, I will agree with that and argue that the FSS should be more involved.

 

[dannysquid]

The game is complicated enough as it is without multiple conflicting exploration mechanics. The new system just takes a bit of getting used to.

 

[M00ka]

I don't like the mechanic of "honk" and then having a complete map.

I'd agree to a compromise where the ADS gives you blacked out planet locations without sounds
(i.e. not being able to discover a ELW or waterworld by view/sound).

What about that OP?

But that compromise won't work for all. Remember some want what you have suggested so they can then fly manually in SC to 'discover' the bodies the old way. But others want the full system map back so they can quickly identify some unique type of body (i.e. green gas giant) so a black circle will not satisfy them.

That is the problem with compromise, who do you compromise to or do you try to compromise to everyone?

 

[Leper Messiah]

The process of "completely unknown system" to "populated system map" was always a hole in the gameplay. A one-click placeholder, and one that was never going to be entirely replaced quickly because of all the "other stuff" that could tie into it that also existed only as placeholders. Something like this change was always going to happen.

Now, the problem with placeholders is that folks get used to them. Hence threads like this one. But being used to the placeholder is not an argument for never replacing it. If it had been this way at release instead of having the placeholder, nobody would be griping.

But the compromise keeps both camps happy, don't want the full reveal at honk, don't buy the ADS, want it buy the ADS. Amount of data the ADS honk returns could be scaled back to a reasonable compromise I think


hmm "Hence threads like this one", no not really I like the FSS and the new gameplay. This thread has come about because I sympathise with those not liking the new fss. I sort of agree that if this had been in from the start things would be different, but people would STILL be griping about gameplay they didn't like and suggesting better methods.

 

[Ian Skippy]

I'm struggling to see the justification for another ADS thread

Lol, indeed. 270 pages of the same ten dudes repeating the same few lines at each other, and now we need another topic for the same.

Whatever.

 

[Leper Messiah]

I don't like the mechanic of "honk" and then having a complete map.

I'd agree to a compromise where the ADS gives you blacked out planet locations without sounds
(i.e. not being able to discover a ELW or waterworld by view/sound).

What about that OP?

Many have suggested a similar compromise, the amount of information the ADS honk reveals is a further discussion to fine tune things I think.

 

[Vasious]

So other people have to justify why the Dev should not change the game back to suit your demands?

With a demand in the OP that doesn't explain what you are actually demanding just closing the discussion to agreeing with you?

Perhaps that is why you don't get anywhere with the "discussion" on "compromise" when the only acceptable answer to you is to agree with you and any disagreement is someone not partaking in the discussion and being selfish not to compromise.

Perhaps it was a change that was a progress in the game as a device that realised the whole system map at the push and hold of a button wasn't fulfilling the vision of what exploration was and now is no longer compatible with the new system.

If the initial energy pulse reveals everything, why have the tuning and resolving?

Why not just have the ADS reveal everything and auto scan and map then, if you want to know what is a system with a glance and button push.

If the frequency bands isn't information enough and you need to see the system map populated, why just do away with exploration completely and just have it on arrival in the system, bam fully populated and scanned and mapped system map.


But again it feels pointless even discussing this as you seem to come across as rabid to the idea that you not getting what you want is other people being selfish not compromising for you.

So what is the point, unless people agree I foresee the reply of "wrong wrong wrong, why are you so anti everything that is my view and thus correct"

The FSS was a move towards more active involvement, away from the passive ADS infinity scan at a button push

 

[Ian Skippy]

But that compromise won't work for all. Remember some want what you have suggested so they can then fly manually in SC to 'discover' the bodies the old way. But others want the full system map back so they can quickly identify some unique type of body (i.e. green gas giant) so a black circle will not satisfy them.

That is the problem with compromise, who do you compromise to or do you try to compromise to everyone?

Wait, there are more than two opinions? If only someone had said so the past 250+ pages! Ah well, I guess now this is known we no longer have to pretend this one-size-fits-all change would please everyone.

Or will this continue? Stay tuned!

 

[Maro-Val]

Not in this thread? I dunno? A compromise may suit you?

A compromise would be really nice and there are solutions and proposals in these forums that wouldn't hurt anybody, but some people think of the word "compromise", that they will completelly loose their precious FSS.

 

[Leper Messiah]

You need a reason for that first bit, caps don't make it convincing, or any compromise necessarily reasonable.

It doesn't matter if they built gameplay around it, I built gameplay around there being no engineers and no PowerPlay bots, but look where we are. The compromise I made was adjusting my gameplay instead of uninstalling, and the game is still fantastic. I'd contend that the verisimilitude part of what I said is equally important, but you ignored it. The ADS is just silly on its face in a game that is built around science and is supposed to make its players feel like space nerds.

I skipped over verisimilitude, primarily because we have no idea what tech can or cannot do in the future. Some would say it's daft to have systems in 330* that resemble what we have now. But it's moot anyway, if you like the FSS then use it!! If you don't....well those have no choice do they?

 

[Stigbob]

A compromise would be really nice and there are solutions and proposals in these forums that wouldn't hurt anybody, but some people think of the word "compromise", that they will completelly loose their precious FSS.

Its all about dev time for me.

 

[Villeruff]

I skipped over verisimilitude, primarily because we have no idea what tech can or cannot do in the future. Some would say it's daft to have systems in 330* that resemble what we have now. But it's moot anyway, if you like the FSS then use it!! If you don't....well those have no choice do they?

Exactly. Just like they have no choice for unlimited jump range and in system jumps.

 

[BDelacroix]

so the caveats are disagreeing with you is not valid?

That's kind of what I read.

 

[Leper Messiah]

I seem to have lost multi quote again!

The FSS is not 'far more overpowered', although we are entering the dangerous territory of by what measure do we tell something is OP in exploration. And since a lot of people have different views of what exploration is and what their goals are, the only measure we can accept is FD's. And their view is one purely based on credits and player engagement.
The ADS allowed player to home in on the most valuable targets at the cost of virtually no player engagement. You opened the system map, selected the WW or ELW, let your ship fly there and waited. Minimal player effort, maximum payout.
The FSS requires the player to engage in the mechanic if they want to maximize their profit. And if we want to argue the FSS doesn't require all that much work, I will agree with that and argue that the FSS should be more involved.

yes the FSS is more OP, because it's why I like it!! I can scan a system 500,000 ls away in seconds, in the old ADS way that would take 30-40+minutes....explain how that is not OP?

It's SO easy to find an ELW and WW via the FSS, you open up the FSS select the WW/ELW frequency and look around a bit, don't even have to fly there! So I twiddle a couple of knobs big deal (still find it fun and better than the ADS though). minimal effort maximum payout LESS time!

 

[Jukelo]

Now I will also say, regardless of any balance consideration, the ADS was just a bad placeholder. It should be telling that exploration felt awesome in the first few days, when you could only afford a basic discoverer and had to rely on parallax to spot undiscovered planets.... and then, since as gamers we are naturally effort-averse and seek to optimize everything, a soon as possible we would exchange the fun and accomplishment of the basic DS for the convenience and boredom of an ADS...

And, to go back to my initial point in this thread, as always with convenient but boredom-inducing mecanics in a video game, it is difficult to come up with a proper compromise that would discourage the largest portion of your effort-averse players, who against their best interest will want that feature badly (like me), while not also punishing the smaller part of your playerbase who genuinely will get more fun with it than without (like the OP).

 

[Maro-Val]

Its all about dev time for me.

What about it? They are spending your time? They have all the time of the world. Its not like they are saving time to fix multicrew lol.

Yea yea i know multicrew works like a charm to you, i know..

 

[Leper Messiah]

But that compromise won't work for all. Remember some want what you have suggested so they can then fly manually in SC to 'discover' the bodies the old way. But others want the full system map back so they can quickly identify some unique type of body (i.e. green gas giant) so a black circle will not satisfy them.

That is the problem with compromise, who do you compromise to or do you try to compromise to everyone?

Yup this is true so we discuss what info the ADS honk reveals to keep as many happy as possible I think most would be happy with less info as long as they can use some skill to work out what is what.

 

[Leper Messiah]

Exactly. Just like they have no choice for unlimited jump range and in system jumps.

But that's equating the ADS with making things easier, it won't.

 

[Leper Messiah]

That's kind of what I read.

Nope, all I said was selfish reasons are not valid, can't come up with a reason that isn't selfish? others have and have made a positive contribution.



ok all I'm off for some physio so don't overwhelm me any more than you have already eh?!