Please help me find best bang for bucks CPU etc

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my i5 4690k was dragging my 980ti back.
I upgraded to a 4790k and I was held back by the 980ti.
Upgraded that to the 1080ti, and the cpu revealed itself as not capable of maintaining 90fps either.

I'm in the same situation with a i5 4690k with a 1060 so I'm CPU limited.

So the 4690k to 4790k was a good upgrade? Looking at Ebay it will cost about £100 to do the swap.

At some point I'll need a new motherboard and processor, ram etc. I'm thinking it may be a cost effective way of upgrading and getting another year out of this PC. Its only VR that bottlenecks anything.
 
Granted I have no actual experience with Ryzen.
But that's seems to feature a good fit for gaming.
It's still not cheap but a far cry from upper end Intel.
For example the i9 9900k at what $550+?
You would be looking at a grand for just mobo, cpu, RAM.

I think the 90/10 could apply well.
You will spend 90% more for the top ten percent.

I honest found the i7 4790k as a bad upgrade barely helped at all.
Things have moved quite a bit since the fourth gen Intel's.
So I wouldnt spend any money on such a platform anymore.
 
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So i did the performance thingy

In solo, sat in a quietish coriolis station. I am getting slightly higher load on my CPU. All 4 cores are at similar load:
CPU 74% - 90% hovers around 79%
GPU 67% - 70% hovers around 69%

There tends to 10% more on CPU

Worth upgrading?

EDIT

Wow! I have just monitored PCars2 (the game I was most concerned about)
CPU 100% all 4 cores
GPU 75 - 80%

Me thinks CPU?

It is definitely worth upgrading your CPU but the whole subject is really complicated and I don’t think anyone here would say they completely understand what the hell is going on.

The general gist is that in VR you are normally either getting 90FPS or 45FPS. Higher frame rates are very demanding on both CPU and GPU while lower frame rates are more demanding on the GPU alone. It’s the massive switching of demand that makes the topic so difficult.

Some people are more concerned about sharpening the image in VR so the GPU becomes more important while others (like me) get sea sick below 90FPS. All of us want a sharper image though. What I wanted was a system that could drive any GPU at 90FPS if it could do it and if that is something you want then the CPU should be your focus.

Your current CPU will not be able to drive a 2080Ti at 90FPS. So for the future your CPU is the limiting factor not the Graphics card.
 
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Granted I have no actual experience with Ryzen.
But that's seems to feature a good fit for gaming.
It's still not cheap but a far cry from upper end Intel.
For example the i9 9900k at what $550+?
You would be looking at a grand for just mobo, cpu, RAM.

I think the 90/10 could apply well.
You will spend 90% more for the top ten percent.

I honest found the i7 4790k as a bad upgrade barely helped at all.
Things have moved quite a bit since the fourth gen Intel's.
So I wouldnt spend any money on such a platform anymore.

Thanks for the reply, I wont bother with the i7 4790k upgrade.

I'm currently thinking of go down the AMD route.

Relevant to the thread- The go to for Intel gaming is the i5 8400 or similar, I'm not sure 6 cores is really enough for VR, but I've never found any benchmarks for it. The i7 is starting to get beyond bang for buck.
 
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Well even the 8700k is six cores with hyperthreading.
and some tests would suggest that the presence of hyperthreading or disabling it in BIOS is infinitesimal in regards to gaming.

What puts the i7 over the i5 is probably more likely core clock and the larger cache.
 
Thanks for the reply, I wont bother with the i7 4790k upgrade.

I'm currently thinking of go down the AMD route.

Relevant to the thread- The go to for Intel gaming is the i5 8400 or similar, I'm not sure 6 cores is really enough for VR, but I've never found any benchmarks for it. The i7 is starting to get beyond bang for buck.

I did some under clocking and thread disabling tests on my PC a few weeks ago (the link posted about the 2600x good for VR? has what I found).

One of the conclusions I got from that (though I can’t back it up with anything) is that a 6 core 6 thread CPU @ 4.0Ghz should be the minimum requirement for VR in ED.
 
I spent around the same money and I am very happy with it.

Well I spent around this time last year.
About $1600 for the i7 8700, cooler, mobo, RAM, an m.2 for os and a few games.

I already had the 1kwatt psu and 1080ti from before.

Now I did build it into a new tower and stuffed an old psu and took the 980ti out of the cupboard.
And gave it to my brother in law.

Yes I keep hardware in my kitchen cupboards.
I stuck my hand in one last week to put away groceries. And found 18GB of various DDR2 RAM modules...
 
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I bit the bullet. Now bricking it because I have just spent £435!

MSI X470 GAMING PLUS ATX Motherboard
RYZEN5 2600X
Corsair Vengeance LPX 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4 3000 MHz

Not the best... but defo better then what I have now right?
and less than £450.

I'll let you know how I fare when I get it!

I think you'll be happy with it. I'm running an x470 board, DDR4 3200 cl14 with a 1st gen Ryzen 1600 and I average 75% cpu usage with a 1080ti. The gpu hits 100% every session.
Your new cpu is much faster, money well spent I'd say [up]
 
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There is a real misconception about how well coded for multi thread CPU’s ED is. It doesn’t throw everything at one or two cores/threads like you think at all. Probably a couple of threads on 12 are used a bit more than others but it is actually balanced quite evenly. Unlike in some games where one thread is pegged at 100%.
That said waiting is pretty sound advice but need to bite the bullet at some point.

I was talking about VR in general. Usually we deal with pretty hackish and unoptimised implementations, which rely on the fact that most VR users have killer rigs (because if you have disposable income for a VR headset like Vive you are assumed to have a killer rig anyway ;-) )

Core count and ghz is at best on par in importance right now.
Give a year or two anything under 6 cores will be seriously anachronistic.

Bang for buck is easily the new Zen's and you will want 3000mhz+ RAM yes it does matter.
Especially in VR.
Relevant to the thread- The go to for Intel gaming is the i5 8400 or similar, I'm not sure 6 cores is really enough for VR, but I've never found any benchmarks for it. The i7 is starting to get beyond bang for buck.

While what you write is true, and multicore is the way especially given the AMD success with Zen architecture, I am still not convinced that "VR in general" will "automagically" benefit from core count or hyperthreading. And there still are badly optimised titles like DCS's F18 module which will eat anything thrown at it including an i9 and 2080Ti. VR is nothing "magical", it doesn't require SETI-level of computations, it's just tracking the components and rendering two frames instead of one (I know I am oversimplifying to illustrate my point). The real onus of the CPU work for VR is that it has to rely "messages" between GPU and RAM pretty fast to match that magical 11ms frametime. In this aspect it is not much different to hundreds of other processes that run on your system while you are reading this post. I suppose if you have more cores you can peg the "vr backend" tasks (compositor) to a core separate to game process, but it can be seen as a move to try to squeeze last ounces of performance for a demanding title. Other than that, "VR" in terms of running VR doesn't have tasks which would benefit from higher core count. Individual software titles might have those optimisations and I am sure after 2019 and widespreading of faster multi-core CPUs games will start demanding it more. That is if we survive the impending AAA games industry crash which is touted throughout 2018 fiascos like Fallout 76, Battlefield V or Diablo Immortal ;-)

I don’t think it’s that big a gamble. If you upgrade to an i7 6700K then you are doing a dead end upgrade. If you got a Ryzen then you still have the upgrade path to Ryzen 3 when it comes out.
Also the Ryzen is around £100 cheaper in the first place. I do understand the reservation though as I chose an i7 over a 1700X but AMD have closed the gap a fair bit. I also agree with TorTorden that anything less than 6 cores will be outdated soon.

Golden words. Yes, I suspect 2019 will be the year of great AMD comeback on consumer desktops. I'm barely looking at intel platform now, which locks the cpu to the socket and is way more expensive. They might be technically in the lead for the fastest CPUs on the market, but most definitely not with the "bang for the buck" category.

What programs do you use to track CPU and GPU load?

For VR there is an excellent piece of software which can be bought on steam called fpsVR. It gives you all-you-need readouts (temps, cpu / gpu usage, ram usage, frametimes, fps etc...) inside your VR headset in a convenient form and cost around 3GBP. Hardly bank breaking. It is a great utility and well worth the money. Caveat - WMR support is experimental from what I read, but on my Vive it works flawlessly. I can't recommend it enough! :) Having it conveniently in VR allows you to finetune your graphics settings to the max by having information always available to you at a glance.

Another method though not that convenient would be MSI Afterburner + Riva tuner (they're bundled). Don't be "scared" by MSI in the name even if you don't have MSI GPU, it is THE GPU overclocking and monitoring standard (just switch the interface to another skin, because the default one is aimed at juveniles :p). It gives you a very nice customizable on screen display which can be seen on the display mirror on monitor, including the graphs if you wish.

It's a shame you didn't wait for the 7nm architecture launch, the base Ryzen prices are expected to drop when it hits. Hopefully ;-).
 
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I bit the bullet. Now bricking it because I have just spent £435!

MSI X470 GAMING PLUS ATX Motherboard
RYZEN5 2600X
Corsair Vengeance LPX 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4 3000 MHz

Not the best... but defo better then what I have now right?
and less than £450.

I'll let you know how I fare when I get it!

Hmmm so tempting to follow you down this path...

My issue is that I did a motherboard, CPU, SSD and case upgrade last time. This next time i need to do RAM and I really feel I should change the power supply - it's old. That then becomes a question of do I build an entire PC from scratch and give someone my old pc (minus gpu) or do an upgrade and flog some parts on Ebay...

Sorry that's getting off topic, this was meant to be about you... GO ANDY SON OF BOB GO!!! ��
 
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Thanks for all of your advice!

I couldn't sleep last night because I was too excited! What a numpty

Hehe; it's pretty special getting that feeling as an adult. I was like that when I was waiting for my Rift to arrive (don't think I'd felt like that since I was about 8 years old on Christmas eve) :D

Be sure to let us all know how you get on. No doubt your question and other ones about Ryzen will come up again and not many people in this part of the forum have one. It is great that people don't have to lob serious amounts of cash at intel to get great VR performance anymore. Your entire upgrade cost ~£70 more than my CPU alone is currently selling for. Then add £110 for the water cooler.... it's just stupid money.


Anyway, enjoy your new toy!
 
Hmmm so tempting to follow you down this path...

My issue is that I did a motherboard, CPU, SSD and case upgrade last time. This next time i need to do RAM and I really feel I should change the power supply - it's old. That then becomes a question of do I build an entire PC from scratch and give someone my old pc (minus gpu) or do an upgrade and flog some parts on Ebay...

Sorry that's getting off topic, this was meant to be about you... GO ANDY SON OF BOB GO!!! ��

I was like you on my last upgrade. I decided to start from scratch and sold the whole thing minus the GPU and (rather expensive) PSU to a mate.
 
While what you write is true, and multicore is the way especially given the AMD success with Zen architecture, I am still not convinced that "VR in general" will "automagically" benefit from core count or hyperthreading. And there still are badly optimised titles like DCS's F18 module which will eat anything thrown at it including an i9 and 2080Ti. VR is nothing "magical", it doesn't require SETI-level of computations, it's just tracking the components and rendering two frames instead of one (I know I am oversimplifying to illustrate my point). The real onus of the CPU work for VR is that it has to rely "messages" between GPU and RAM pretty fast to match that magical 11ms frametime. In this aspect it is not much different to hundreds of other processes that run on your system while you are reading this post. I suppose if you have more cores you can peg the "vr backend" tasks (compositor) to a core separate to game process, but it can be seen as a move to try to squeeze last ounces of performance for a demanding title. Other than that, "VR" in terms of running VR doesn't have tasks which would benefit from higher core count. Individual software titles might have those optimisations and I am sure after 2019 and widespreading of faster multi-core CPUs games will start demanding it more. That is if we survive the impending AAA games industry crash which is touted throughout 2018 fiascos like Fallout 76, Battlefield V or Diablo Immortal ;-)

Doesn't matter for VR or not, the most current VR game engines, or game engines in general being Unity and Unreal are very very multicore capable, I don't think you would have cores not being leveraged even with a top end threadripper.

As DCS, well DCS is barely dual threaded, and all frame generation and timing is on just one of them, it just can't keep up with modern GPU's at all period, unless you could get like a stable 7+Ghz OC on the cpu or something.

They are however working on switching it over to Vulkan, and they have been working on that for a while already, and one benefit of that is releasing frame generation from CPU all together as well as spreading the load over as many cores and threads you can give.
That and more VR improvements are on their 2019 roadmap at Eagle dynamics, so fingers crossed.
That and the F-16..

As for what is going on with the F-18 I am flabbergasted, I am getting pretty decent frames and I can almost reach 90fps with my settings in DCS as is, the cpu overclock probably didn't hurt, but at the end of the day, it's the one title I simply lock to ASW.
But the f-18 was weird, even on flat screen gaming that gave me a two thirds drop in FPS and barely held 30fps in VR at times.
I loaded up a blank map to test, Harrier in the same place, just parked cold I had about 160+ FPS, the Hornet barely 60..
That's just something I experienced during the free weekend, I didn't buy it because of it.
The harrier for instance I would never dip below 45.

As for the industry, they are reaping what they sowed, and I'l happily throw gas on the bonfire.
Bethesda, EA and the lot of them can burn in the hell they made themselves, computer games and VR will outlive them.
 
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