What do you guys think of a minimum timer locking you in for conflict zones and powerplay zones?

Terrible idea.

I don't want to be forced into doing a CZ or PP zone any period of time a second longer than I want to because of an imaginary timer.

I don't want to be forced into engineering my combat ships to a specific standard so they can survive a forced timer.

Maybe I want to equip my ship with frag cannons and torpedoes or packhounds, kill a few things real quick for the lulz and dip out.... But wait, I can't because arbitrary timer is there and I can't play my way because pvpers wanna PvP.

CQC is where you wanna go if you want timers and LoL like gameplay
 
So, all those in favour of OP's suggestion?

All those still "using our brains" and seeing this thread for what it is?

And finally, who's got the popcorn?
 
Can we move beyond the red herring of the CZ as a special instance where you have to stay and fight, when the game simply does not have the actual tools beyond cqc to do pvp instances?

If this OP simply said, hey Elite needs PVP / WVW spaces like other mmos, which are central server hosted, logs = losses, and kills count as points tallied for factions / power play powers - I'd say hell yeah ED needs designated PVP and WVW spaces - bring it on. Might as well make insurance claims in those spaces = zero, drop all engineering except for premium ammo and actually have fair fights. I bet you'd get a ton of folks actually giving it a whirl.

But that isn't what locking players into CZs actually is. CZs are busted, and layering a compulsory instance lock certainly isn't going to improve gameplay.
 
Unbelievable. Once again OP finds no support for an idea, then begins to proclaim no one else knows what E|D is about.

A fundamental aspect of E|D is: You can only expect to play alongside those that want to be in that environment. The players who drop into an instance, and leaves when they see PC opposition, don't want to be there. If this type of player were trapped in 'fly-paper', just what you are suggesting, they would learn not to drop in. You'd be right back to only fighting those looking for PvP. Essentially making combat instances PvP zones, to be treated exactly the same as open mode is.

How are players in Solo or a No-PvP Private Group handled in your idea? Is the end result of your suggestion to be that combat instances become forced PvP? I can't see that going over very well. Even OOPP hasn't had a second mention from FD, let alone the idea of creating 'honey traps' for snaring players.

It's been mentioned an untold number of times... The more effective way to encourage game play is through rewards, not arbitrary barriers. Reward both the victor and the vanquished, while giving the engagement meaning in the game. That is the magic recipe for bringing vitality to combat, and encouraging PvP, without removing choice from the game.
 
To entertain some aspect of the OP's idea:

Capital Ships could impose huge huge masslock penalties on all ships across a very large expanse of space, so whenever they are in the area, you would have an FSD spool-up time that is so slow as to be prohibitive. You could still escape, but you'd have to boost-boost-boost well out of the heart of the battle before you could realistically expect to get out of the CZ. Now, this next part is a teeny bit hand-wavey, but if the masslock penalty were only applied to ships on the opposing side, it would create a motivation to take down the Capital Ships. Finally, if the completion of multiple "scenario objectives" on your own side could eventually *bring in* a capital ship, this would create an incentive for players to stick around in the CZ as well.

So, before any capships arrive, there is an incentive to stay and complete Scenario Objectives to bring in a Capship for your side. Once the Capital Ship does arrive, the opposing side will be unable to quickly drop in and out of the battle for escape/restock/repair/etc, and will have a double incentive to stick around so they can bring in a CapShip of their own as well as drive away the opposing CapShip to dispense with the Masslock factor. Meanwhile the side *with* a CapShip will want to protect their ship as well as press the advantage.

Since Capital Ships only show up in High Intensity CZs (I think), this would allow players to self-select for whether they want to risk getting into a situation like this or not. And of course if the battle is still in its early stages people would be able to drop in and out as they always have, which wouldn't really be a problem since there's no momentum to the conflict yet.

Anyway that's the closest thing I can come up with to a compromise which would be at all palatable to my tastes. Thing is people are still just gonna log out if they want to so . . . meh?
 
Morning campers! Is this thread still not locked?

Oh well, let me wake up properly and get some coffee in me... Looks like I'm not the only one who can't understand the OP's ideas. If I were the thinking kind I might begin to wonder whether it might be the OP having an understanding failure... But then I didn't play "league" or whatever so it must be me... *sigh*.

Why hasn't this thread been locked again?
 
Morning campers!

Why hasn't this thread been locked again?

The thread is still open for two things: First for you to have something to do whilst drinking your coffee. And second probably more important, for Kaocraft to post his excellent idea above.

To entertain some aspect of the OP's idea:

Capital Ships could impose huge huge masslock penalties on all ships across a very large expanse of space, so whenever they are in the area, you would have an FSD spool-up time that is so slow as to be prohibitive. You could still escape, but you'd have to boost-boost-boost well out of the heart of the battle before you could realistically expect to get out of the CZ. Now, this next part is a teeny bit hand-wavey, but if the masslock penalty were only applied to ships on the opposing side, it would create a motivation to take down the Capital Ships. Finally, if the completion of multiple "scenario objectives" on your own side could eventually *bring in* a capital ship, this would create an incentive for players to stick around in the CZ as well.

So, before any capships arrive, there is an incentive to stay and complete Scenario Objectives to bring in a Capship for your side. Once the Capital Ship does arrive, the opposing side will be unable to quickly drop in and out of the battle for escape/restock/repair/etc, and will have a double incentive to stick around so they can bring in a CapShip of their own as well as drive away the opposing CapShip to dispense with the Masslock factor. Meanwhile the side *with* a CapShip will want to protect their ship as well as press the advantage.

Since Capital Ships only show up in High Intensity CZs (I think), this would allow players to self-select for whether they want to risk getting into a situation like this or not. And of course if the battle is still in its early stages people would be able to drop in and out as they always have, which wouldn't really be a problem since there's no momentum to the conflict yet.

Anyway that's the closest thing I can come up with to a compromise which would be at all palatable to my tastes. Thing is people are still just gonna log out if they want to so . . . meh?

+1 REP

This idea has real potential.
 
The thread is still open for two things: First for you to have something to do whilst drinking your coffee. And second probably more important, for Kaocraft to post his excellent idea above.



+1 REP

This idea has real potential.

It does have potential, which is why I didn't want to review it until after my coffee... It was good too... an Americano made with my Aeropress, served in a big orange mug with what my partner would call "too much" milk. Still, it's how I like it in the mornings. Too sleepy to fuss around with the espresso machine.

Anyway yeah, it's a thing I considered yesterday, at least in part. Though I was thinking more along the lined of additive (or even multiplied) mass lock. That being that a wing of smaller ships would cause mass lock on a larger one - allbeit with a shorter range. If all ships in an area contributed to an overall masslock factor that affected each and every ship there, then once battle is joined, then even the largest ships would need to fly far enough away before they could jump - a distance that would increase with the number of large or superlarge ships in the area. Capital ships like the Farragut or Majestic would obviously add greatly to this locking field, and more than one, even more so.

What I can't get my head round though is how it would only affect enemy ships. To me that calls for a little too much handwavium. Otherwise, Kaocraft's suggestion seems fine as a starting point. Much more so than a time limited forcefield.

This would prevent instant jumpouts, but would in most circumstances allow the unwilling to leave, though with a few boosts first. Nobody in their right mind would be chasing down ships fleeing the battlefield while there are cap ships fighting - they'd be small potatoes unless there was a particular reason to give chase and so the NPCs wouldn't bother following, and PCs looking for PvP action could follow as they like.

Just my partly thought through solution... I'm sure further discussion will either improve on it or ridicule it.
 
It does have potential, which is why I didn't want to review it until after my coffee... It was good too... an Americano made with my Aeropress, served in a big orange mug with what my partner would call "too much" milk. Still, it's how I like it in the mornings. Too sleepy to fuss around with the espresso machine.

Anyway yeah, it's a thing I considered yesterday, at least in part. Though I was thinking more along the lined of additive (or even multiplied) mass lock. That being that a wing of smaller ships would cause mass lock on a larger one - allbeit with a shorter range. If all ships in an area contributed to an overall masslock factor that affected each and every ship there, then once battle is joined, then even the largest ships would need to fly far enough away before they could jump - a distance that would increase with the number of large or superlarge ships in the area. Capital ships like the Farragut or Majestic would obviously add greatly to this locking field, and more than one, even more so.

What I can't get my head round though is how it would only affect enemy ships. To me that calls for a little too much handwavium. Otherwise, Kaocraft's suggestion seems fine as a starting point. Much more so than a time limited forcefield.

This would prevent instant jumpouts, but would in most circumstances allow the unwilling to leave, though with a few boosts first. Nobody in their right mind would be chasing down ships fleeing the battlefield while there are cap ships fighting - they'd be small potatoes unless there was a particular reason to give chase and so the NPCs wouldn't bother following, and PCs looking for PvP action could follow as they like.

Just my partly thought through solution... I'm sure further discussion will either improve on it or ridicule it.

The idea has some merit. However, in your discussion there seems to be some subtle inflexion regarding the numbers of players / NPC involved in a conflict area. The OP is, in my mind, wanting to force PvP combat on other players at the indvidual player level.

The idea you have discussed seems to me to regard fleet or squadron level operations. Squadrons of players who are contesting systems could do combat in CZs. These squadrons could contain large ships that are like the The Interdictor-class Star Destroyer in Star Wars in that they could project a local gravity well that acts like a mass lock that cannot discriminate between adversaries: they will not have the ability to pull ships out of hyperspace or supercruise. One step at a time.

Only player squadrons would have this facility. If players really desire more PvP play then it would be up to them to organise themselves into squadrons and organise and arrange such fleet contests, given appropriate support in ED from FDev. The explorers have shown their commitment to their love of exploring together: DW and DW2 are shining examples of this.

The squadron players would have to develop strategies and tactics to contend with such ships as the Interdictors; fighters covering torpedoe bombers, the latter taking out designated ships such as the Interdictors. I hope you get my drift here.
The strategic result of losing a conflict? Losing influence, control of a system for a faction supported by a squadron?

Hopefully, it would promote some great furballs and awesome videos that I would love to watch. At least the players battle chatter would be authentic!
It would make for a more exciting and, dare I say, a more meaningful engagement of PvP combat.

It may be that scenarios could also be created to allow PvP squadron action. Let's say a faction's disabled capital ship needs to be resupplied and repaired at a certain location so it can escape an opposing faction's attempts to capture it. This is old hat; the vintage game Star Wars X-Wing game had excellent missions like this.

The trouble with this idea is that ED is fundamentally a solo game even for Open and has no squadron fleet mission system to speak of especially one to enable such imagined events described above. And then there is the instancing issues to contend with.
 
Thanks for some of you giving this some second thought.

My goal with this thread was to encourage legit PVP while in these zones. While removing the first thought that comes to everyone's heads when the first sign of danger happens. And that's running away.

I don't think these should be meant for running away. These conflict zones to me should be long drawn out farming sessions with teams on both sides. In a tug of war.

The option will always be available to leave. It just shouldn't be right away.

Really cool mechanics you guys thought of for keeping people in the instance. I really don't care how the immersion part of that was handled. But those ideas seem pretty awesome.

What I see is teamwork with wings and modules to keep each other alive. Strategic team fighting, punishing for over extensions while adding some real risks against each other if you happen to lose those merits.

Instead of gearing up to get what you can and flee ASAP. People should be gearing up to stay and work together against one another as long as possible. Knowing they are going to be there for a bit.

Using things like long range lasers, Phasing and damage over time on the enemy team while they go for conflict zone kills. Healing beams and assassinations.

Different ships would have even more identities within these conflict zones and it would feel like people had a role with these ships and team comps as they play for a long period of time.

We have plenty of chances to run once we've farmed the merits on the way to control systems/BGS systems.

When we aren't taking part in this stuff it will give us reasons to build specialized ships to use for different roles.

Personally I think it would be fun as hell fighting people that are close to the same skill level and outfitting working towards the same goal on the opposite side. I think once something like this is in place. People would move have reasons to bulk themselves up and not feel like a "seal" anymore.

To be honest guys, while I can go out and nuke anyone not part of the PVP community. It would be nice if more players had reasons to engineer and work together rather than being soft targets because they have never needed to update their ships or work towards upgrading something themselves.
 
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Basically what happens is you are locked to the instance for a minimum amount of time. Lets say you were in a power play zone with people on each side. Where you farm and work against each other at the same time. Except you cant leave until the zone is won, or a timer expires.

This would promote friendly competition, working together, wing comps and more.

People usually spend a considerable amount of time in them anyways.

How do you guys feel about it? What would be a good time to set if any?

A great idea for the Player versus Victim fraternity, a really bad idea for anyone who wants to play in any other way.

If the idea did gain favour the best but pointless setting for the timer would be 1 second, but to implement the full horror of this idea then the timer should be set to 15 minutes from the arrival of the last ship into the instance.

Edit: I apologise if this post seems to support any of the OPs suggestion.
 
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A great idea for the Player versus Victim fraternity, a really bad idea for anyone who wants to play in any other way.

If the idea did gain favour the best but pointless setting for the timer would be 1 second, but to implement the full horror of this idea then the timer should be set to 15 minutes from the arrival of the last ship into the instance.

While there will be winning and losing in these conflict zones. It wouldn't be for the reasons you think they are.

People going into this are already engaged against another group of people in the first place. They would know what they are getting themselves into before they do it. That's the point.
 
Unbelievable. Once again OP finds no support for an idea, then begins to proclaim no one else knows what E|D is about.

A fundamental aspect of E|D is: You can only expect to play alongside those that want to be in that environment. The players who drop into an instance, and leaves when they see PC opposition, don't want to be there. If this type of player were trapped in 'fly-paper', just what you are suggesting, they would learn not to drop in. You'd be right back to only fighting those looking for PvP. Essentially making combat instances PvP zones, to be treated exactly the same as open mode is.

How are players in Solo or a No-PvP Private Group handled in your idea? Is the end result of your suggestion to be that combat instances become forced PvP? I can't see that going over very well. Even OOPP hasn't had a second mention from FD, let alone the idea of creating 'honey traps' for snaring players.

It's been mentioned an untold number of times... The more effective way to encourage game play is through rewards, not arbitrary barriers. Reward both the victor and the vanquished, while giving the engagement meaning in the game. That is the magic recipe for bringing vitality to combat, and encouraging PvP, without removing choice from the game.

No, you dont get a trophy for losing. This is not little league baseball. No pizza partys for the loser either. Learn to lose.
 
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Thanks for some of you giving this some second thought.

My goal with this thread was to encourage legit PVP while in these zones. While removing the first thought that comes to everyone's heads when the first sign of danger happens. And that's running away.

I don't think these should be meant for running away. These conflict zones to me should be long drawn out farming sessions with teams on both sides. In a tug of war.

The option will always be available to leave. It just shouldn't be right away.

Really cool mechanics you guys thought of for keeping people in the instance. I really don't care how the immersion part of that was handled. But those ideas seem pretty awesome.

What I see is teamwork with wings and modules to keep each other alive. Strategic team fighting, punishing for over extensions while adding some real risks against each other if you happen to lose those merits.

Instead of gearing up to get what you can and flee ASAP. People should be gearing up to stay and work together against one another as long as possible. Knowing they are going to be there for a bit.

Using things like long range lasers, Phasing and damage over time on the enemy team while they go for conflict zone kills. Healing beams and assassinations.

Different ships would have even more identities within these conflict zones and it would feel like people had a role with these ships and team comps as they play for a long period of time.

We have plenty of chances to run once we've farmed the merits on the way to control systems.

When we aren't taking part in this stuff it will give us reasons to build specialized ships to use for different roles.

Personally I think it would be fun as hell fighting people that are close to the same skill level and outfitting working towards the same goal on the opposite side. I think once something like this is in place. People would move have reasons to bulk themselves up and not feel like a "seal" anymore.

To be honest guys, while I can go out and nuke anyone not part of the PVP community. It would be nice if more players had reasons to engineer and work together rather than being soft targets because they have never needed to update their ships or work towards upgrading something themselves.

Having a cooldown timer wouldn't make that kind of awesome system happen.

There would have to be some kind of amazing and I mean mind blowingly amazing rewards to get people to care about that specific CZ. Cause right now the rewards are not worth grinding for hours to build ships and skills like you envision. Either that or advance the story and put the major factions at actual war so that you could help make an actual change to the powers that be.
 
There would have to be some kind of amazing and I mean mind blowingly amazing rewards to get people to care about that specific CZ. Cause right now the rewards are not worth grinding for hours to build ships and skills like you envision. Either that or advance the story and put the major factions at actual war so that you could help make an actual change to the powers that be.

Well, the end goal would be winning the war and expanding your territory. Hopefully controlling assets.

The thing is this game has plenty of room and abilities to reward people for winning certain assets. Like those new installations you see everywhere? They're all sorts of different types of installations.

Some of them could generate income, materials, beef security. All sorts of things. If you notice they are everywhere. To be honest I think that's why they added them. If not, they should definintly be worth capturing in some way to benefit the controlling factions. It also gives an end goal to work towards and a reason to go after certain assets on the playing field.

That would be the bigger picture. These conflict zones would be on a smaller scale but you need to win them in the end to expand and control them.

Macro gameplay vs Micro gameplay. The goal is to win both. Eventually map control could be a thing.
 
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I don´ t know if I should be impressed by the vehemence you put into your dreams and their implemetation. On the other hand I find it a little bit dazing, because this is not the first thread of this kind from you. The particular suggestion in this one makes zero sense as long as ED is split in open/pg/solo. This won´ t change in near future as far as I am informed. Correct me if I´ m wrong

I´ d say just deal with it: Elite is not a real MMORPG.
 
I don´ t know if I should be impressed by the vehemence you put into your dreams and their implemetation. On the other hand I find it a little bit dazing, because this is not the first thread of this kind from you. The particular suggestion in this one makes zero sense as long as ED is split in open/pg/solo. This won´ t change in near future as far as I am informed. Correct me if I´ m wrong

I´ d say just deal with it: Elite is not a real MMORPG.

You're right it probably wont happen the way I see it. They have been pretty stern about keeping those features. I'd just like to see more engaging gameplay to keep people invested with their friends and enemies.
 
No, you dont get a trophy for losing. This is not little league baseball. No pizza partys for the loser either. Learn to lose.

Peep.

I guess you could focus on a microscopic portion of my post, and dismiss it with some grandfathers curse. I could even see your impotent fist shaking in the air. "Get off mu lawn".

But, you can't answer, or won't answer, how this will effect those not playing in open. Unless, and it's as I suspect, this suggestion is intended to force PvP on to players if they want to support a faction or power through combat. Making your idea just another way to insinuate open only mechanisms into BGS/PP activities. That's going to be a problem.

I just wonder what would do a better job at encouraging PvP, rewarding players for engaging or forcing them to comply? Use your vaunted and in-depth knowledge of game theory and design to answer that.
 
Thanks for some of you giving this some second thought.

My goal with this thread was to encourage legit PVP while in these zones. While removing the first thought that comes to everyone's heads when the first sign of danger happens. And that's running away.

I don't think these should be meant for running away. These conflict zones to me should be long drawn out farming sessions with teams on both sides. In a tug of war.

The option will always be available to leave. It just shouldn't be right away.

Really cool mechanics you guys thought of for keeping people in the instance. I really don't care how the immersion part of that was handled. But those ideas seem pretty awesome.

What I see is teamwork with wings and modules to keep each other alive. Strategic team fighting, punishing for over extensions while adding some real risks against each other if you happen to lose those merits.

Instead of gearing up to get what you can and flee ASAP. People should be gearing up to stay and work together against one another as long as possible. Knowing they are going to be there for a bit.

Using things like long range lasers, Phasing and damage over time on the enemy team while they go for conflict zone kills. Healing beams and assassinations.

Different ships would have even more identities within these conflict zones and it would feel like people had a role with these ships and team comps as they play for a long period of time.

We have plenty of chances to run once we've farmed the merits on the way to control systems/BGS systems.

When we aren't taking part in this stuff it will give us reasons to build specialized ships to use for different roles.

Personally I think it would be fun as hell fighting people that are close to the same skill level and outfitting working towards the same goal on the opposite side. I think once something like this is in place. People would move have reasons to bulk themselves up and not feel like a "seal" anymore.

To be honest guys, while I can go out and nuke anyone not part of the PVP community. It would be nice if more players had reasons to engineer and work together rather than being soft targets because they have never needed to update their ships or work towards upgrading something themselves.

I still disagree with the entire concept as stated by you.

However since others were indulging in a thought experiment of how a CZ could grow and have people leave less, then I offered my thoughts too. I still do not believe that anyone should be prevented from leaving, and using mass lock variations allows people who don't want to continue, the option to high wake. There is no way that forced PvP would ever be an improvement to the game.

Please don't assume that any conjecture on my part (I will let others speak for themselves) is in any way a change of opinion on that score. On the contrary, your own comments after I left last night convinced me even more that your intent was not in the best interests of the game, nor even of PvP taken on its own.
 
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