So basically I have to focus more time on high paying activities rather than just casually shoot things for the paltry amount it pays to for upkeep?
Screw that.
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Credits now meaningless? Might as well remove? Discuss
- Thread starter Agony_Aunt
- Start date
So basically I have to focus more time on high paying activities rather than just casually shoot things for the paltry amount it pays to for upkeep?
Screw that.
Right but in that example you're also comparing an adult to a literal child. Not exactly apples to apples
One of my friends in this game grinds for credits all day, that's his thing. He has a simple goal, 40 bil. Next month he'll have a new goal, 50 bil. Dont take that away from him, plz. I like what Jenner said about adding credit sinks, as long as they're optional and dont drastically change the game. Off the top of my head: Base purchasing. Forget "building" a base, some of us billionaires would be happy with the option to buy an outpost, moonbase or planetary city, with services from basic to advanced. No building mini-game involved; just buy it and rename it.
1 billion: moon shack with a large landing pad / only you can dock here.
2 billion: outpost with large landing pad and outfitting services.
etc,etc
100 billion: Planetary City with 5 large landing pads, and all the base services / no one can dock without your permission.
etc,etc
200 billion: Coriolis station with everything.
This is frequently stated but the one test of Forum opinion is where it was measured against the official FD poll to test opinion on fees/time sink for transport of ships and modules. An unofficial forum poll came out surprisingly close in percentages to the official poll.
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If it's available in the game, some people will want it.
If people want it, some people will want it now.
If people can't have it now, some people will complain about grind.
That's not to say that FDev shouldn't do it, just don't imagine for a second that the forums will be filled with people saying "Hey FDev, thanks so much for giving me a goal that it's going to take me 6 months to achieve"
Yeah, that's the problem with us adults. Most of us can't just enjoy a game for pure pleasure, we need to transform any enjoment into something that resembles tedious work...
I do agree with OP, I have just returned to trading, after a break of a good 2yrs, and it's ridiculous I was making many millions/hr without much effort, thus bored with that. I was waiting for the twist once I'd launched, waiting for a squadron of vultures to attack, but alas no. It took many months to get the credits to buy an Anaconda, when the game first launched. Now it's all too easy, as are giving DW2 pilots a free ship when attacked by griefers in a PG. Maybe the game is becoming a reflection of the real world ?
?I do agree with OP, I have just returned to trading, after a break of a good 2yrs, and it's ridiculous I was making many millions/hr without much effort, thus bored with that. I was waiting for the twist once I'd launched, waiting for a squadron of vultures to attack, but alas no. It took many months to get the credits to buy an Anaconda, when the game first launched. Now it's all too easy, as are giving DW2 pilots a free ship when attacked by griefers in a PG. Maybe the game is becoming a reflection of the real world
So if you made thousands instead of millions, would you have been less bored? It sounds like your actual issue is with the lack of danger that day. I am not sure what your point is.
There was a time when credit progression was pretty good, during the first phase of the delivery era. You could also do medium range hops (which many people did) you could find your own locations in the bubble by reading the bgs attributes in the system map and finding others with the same.
Frontier just killed their own idea though because of steam reviews. If anything, they would have had to build education or hand holding, which is taboo to their ethos so they turned it off.
In the last few weeks, i have taken a new save to enough for a beluga.. and i got to say it was better in the past.
Today:
- Every single mission board is effectively the same. The rewards are stupidly within a padded wall range, they're high enough to seem like you're doing something, but never increase either.
In the past:
- Most mission boards where commonly pretty bad, so much so that they inspired you to go out and LEARN about the game.
- Learning about how it worked gave you a double positive feedback loop: you learned something, and you also learned that you could get above average rewards from your knowledge.
- You even had the option to apply your knowledge away from the template of the one system everyone talked about to find your own! So good.
Credits became the victim of dumb and dumber.
Still listening to world of warcraft podcasts on occasion, theres a recurring theme that the reason why the current expansion is so bad is because blizzard (frontiers idol im sure) have been making the game for people who dislike the game instead of people that actually do. In so many cases now, frontier have gone and screwed with elite based on negative feedback rather than working with also significant number of people who actually did the content, and in every single case, the experience is worse off or basically meaningless for it. I think there's less feed because older players don't have to do these things again, and for the second time skipping the experience turns into a positive.
The worst past is, in the early days, it wasn't necessarily a refusal to accept the progression systems, it was a lack of mainstream availability of tutorials. Even now the game doesn't have nearly enough to let a new player without research ability field the sandbox. So dumb and dumber it went.......
You could argue that every station in the bubble is meaningless apart from robigo and jameson. There's only rp value in everything else because they're effectively the same apart from half a dozen variants that come out of the bgs.
Frontier just killed their own idea though because of steam reviews. If anything, they would have had to build education or hand holding, which is taboo to their ethos so they turned it off.
In the last few weeks, i have taken a new save to enough for a beluga.. and i got to say it was better in the past.
Today:
- Every single mission board is effectively the same. The rewards are stupidly within a padded wall range, they're high enough to seem like you're doing something, but never increase either.
In the past:
- Most mission boards where commonly pretty bad, so much so that they inspired you to go out and LEARN about the game.
- Learning about how it worked gave you a double positive feedback loop: you learned something, and you also learned that you could get above average rewards from your knowledge.
- You even had the option to apply your knowledge away from the template of the one system everyone talked about to find your own! So good.
Credits became the victim of dumb and dumber.
Still listening to world of warcraft podcasts on occasion, theres a recurring theme that the reason why the current expansion is so bad is because blizzard (frontiers idol im sure) have been making the game for people who dislike the game instead of people that actually do. In so many cases now, frontier have gone and screwed with elite based on negative feedback rather than working with also significant number of people who actually did the content, and in every single case, the experience is worse off or basically meaningless for it. I think there's less feed because older players don't have to do these things again, and for the second time skipping the experience turns into a positive.
The worst past is, in the early days, it wasn't necessarily a refusal to accept the progression systems, it was a lack of mainstream availability of tutorials. Even now the game doesn't have nearly enough to let a new player without research ability field the sandbox. So dumb and dumber it went.......
You could argue that every station in the bubble is meaningless apart from robigo and jameson. There's only rp value in everything else because they're effectively the same apart from half a dozen variants that come out of the bgs.
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If it's available in the game, some people will want it.
If people want it, some people will want it now.
If people can't have it now, some people will complain about grind.
That's not to say that FDev shouldn't do it, just don't imagine for a second that the forums will be filled with people saying "Hey FDev, thanks so much for giving me a goal that it's going to take me 6 months to achieve"
Good point, but it has the potential to replace the whining, "all of these credits and nothing to spend them on. Game is dooomed!" And I'm not in that crowd. I like having billions. If there was a base to spend my billions on, its not a given I would spend them.
Well, maybe the care bears will stop crying about PKs.
Bit surprised at the assumption you have to be a gold rush jumping forum goer to have billions. I started a little over a year ago, have been aware of a couple of gold rushes since then, and have partaken in none.
I worked my way up to a Python with missions & some bounty hunting, then medium pad extraction systems offered a reliable 20 million an hour. Once in a Cutter or Type-9, I put some legwork into finding large pad extraction systems with missions to only one other system and started hitting a reliable 40-50 million an hour, peaking at times over 100 million an hour. Zero gold rushes or exploits. I wasn't interested in suicide sidewinder skimmer missions.
The void opal craze is offering a reliable income to anyone with a ship with a small and medium HP that rivals that of someone with Elite, reps built up at systems they nurture, and a bunch of credits already invested into their operation. I enjoyed the process, and think every profession should grow to the point an established Commander with high rank in it should be able to make 50 million or so an hour with some focus in their discipline.
That's where the problem lies, all the elites, allied reps, and experience in the Galaxy do nothing at all to help a combat pilot or trade route runner make an income on par with an E rated Asp X with 10 hours of play time pulse waving an asteroid field ad nauseum.
I worked my way up to a Python with missions & some bounty hunting, then medium pad extraction systems offered a reliable 20 million an hour. Once in a Cutter or Type-9, I put some legwork into finding large pad extraction systems with missions to only one other system and started hitting a reliable 40-50 million an hour, peaking at times over 100 million an hour. Zero gold rushes or exploits. I wasn't interested in suicide sidewinder skimmer missions.
The void opal craze is offering a reliable income to anyone with a ship with a small and medium HP that rivals that of someone with Elite, reps built up at systems they nurture, and a bunch of credits already invested into their operation. I enjoyed the process, and think every profession should grow to the point an established Commander with high rank in it should be able to make 50 million or so an hour with some focus in their discipline.
That's where the problem lies, all the elites, allied reps, and experience in the Galaxy do nothing at all to help a combat pilot or trade route runner make an income on par with an E rated Asp X with 10 hours of play time pulse waving an asteroid field ad nauseum.
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I think I see your point. Void Opal mining sure is a bit over the top, also after the bug fix. If the pirate-assault state would mean some actual danger .... maybe then it would be more balanced?
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In early 2018 I wiped my main after >5000 hours, just to get back to the sweet times where credit still means something. This joy was already over after about 6 weeks in which I *never* grinded anything. Now, not even one year later and still never grinded, I have 2 A-rated big ships (Corvette and Conda) together with a complete fleet of engineered combat, exploration and mining ships. People who won't mind grinding would get to the same point (including the required reputation grind for the Corvette) in certainly less than 3 month. This is ridiculous and cheap game design - and I hesitate to add the magic word 'IMO'.
Only what keeps me from doing it again, or playing a true ironman game (that I initially had planned) are the Engineers which really don't fit into this sort of gameplay - unless ironman would get his separate server..
...and so I'm back to deep space exploring again, were all credits can kiss my back anyway. Want some?
5000 hours, "cheap game design". Perhaps at some point you should realize that 5000 hours is a lot of time to put into a game, and you SHOULD be really good at it. My goal when i started was to get a Fed corvette. It took me 398 hours to get it. I didnt make a straight run for it or do any exploits, but 398 hours is a LOT of time to invest in one game.
No one is forcing you to have credits, if having a balance is that much of an issue, A-rate a cutter, fill it with palladium, and then self destruct but dont use rebuy.
There is a reason clicker- or similar games are popular, it might not be rewarding to see a number or bar rise, but there is some odd satisfaction about it. Especially with the right sound and graphic effects associated.
With exploration another point is the "mark left in the world", a reward besides the credits. Unfortunately this system of not-exchangeable rewards would not work for most stuff in the game.
Ah missions, are those playable by now?
I thought they are only there to get you some rep with a faction or a navy and give you some rare mats. So you can earn credits with them too...
Credits aren't meaningless; they are however somewhat menial. With the advent of engineering, tech brokers and all the things that require vast amounts of materials, credits become the "copper" while mats become the "gold." You HAVE to get credits, but looking ahead, you know they're just a stepping stone. Hence so many players now turn to the gold rush tactics and "skip" huge parts of the game by jumping straight from starting ships to the big 3 or the like, never even trying the bulk of the fleet and having no real perspective of most of the game's flight models.
Then they get the ship they "want" and A-grade it...only to find they're STILL not facing fair challenges thanks to the "engineering" of NPC's, let alone PVP pilots. So it's back to the grindstone for materials--just look at the odd "where to find HGE?" posts that pop up every now and then. Eventually even those players get tired of grinding for specific mats until they discover material traders...aaaaaaand then someone opens their eyes to the crashed annies--then the REAL gold rush is on.
Weeks later, they have a fleet of fully engineered ships with tech broker weapons and are flush with grade 3-5 mats sitting around wondering to do with their time now.
This phenomenon of currencies becoming meaningless and being replaced with new ones is called accretion. I first heard the word in an extra credits video explaining it and suddenly my loss of interest in MMO's made total sense. The same thing has happened in ED; credits aren't the real currency anymore. They're still REQUIRED, but they're not really what you WANT anymore.
I dread the thought of what comes after materials. Another power spike, another new thing to collect at an excruciating pace, another "secret spot" that promises infinite supply of it in exchange for completely pointless drudgery...and we'll be right back where we started, thirsting for actual content instead of another part time job.
I like ED. There are wonderful and fantastic things about it. This phenomenon, however, is a trap that befalls so many games it's scary; ED is not immune.
Then they get the ship they "want" and A-grade it...only to find they're STILL not facing fair challenges thanks to the "engineering" of NPC's, let alone PVP pilots. So it's back to the grindstone for materials--just look at the odd "where to find HGE?" posts that pop up every now and then. Eventually even those players get tired of grinding for specific mats until they discover material traders...aaaaaaand then someone opens their eyes to the crashed annies--then the REAL gold rush is on.
Weeks later, they have a fleet of fully engineered ships with tech broker weapons and are flush with grade 3-5 mats sitting around wondering to do with their time now.
This phenomenon of currencies becoming meaningless and being replaced with new ones is called accretion. I first heard the word in an extra credits video explaining it and suddenly my loss of interest in MMO's made total sense. The same thing has happened in ED; credits aren't the real currency anymore. They're still REQUIRED, but they're not really what you WANT anymore.
I dread the thought of what comes after materials. Another power spike, another new thing to collect at an excruciating pace, another "secret spot" that promises infinite supply of it in exchange for completely pointless drudgery...and we'll be right back where we started, thirsting for actual content instead of another part time job.
I like ED. There are wonderful and fantastic things about it. This phenomenon, however, is a trap that befalls so many games it's scary; ED is not immune.
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Ahem.
[video=youtube;VagyJIMosvg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VagyJIMosvg[/video]
For the record, I agree that the current state of economy is cheap entertainment.
[video=youtube;VagyJIMosvg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VagyJIMosvg[/video]
For the record, I agree that the current state of economy is cheap entertainment.
I do sigh a little when I see threads of new players asking how to outfit their Anaconda. I don’t think that progression experience was really meant to be skipped like that. By the time you are in a top tier ship, you should know exactly how and what modules work.
I think rare materials are a new currency with fewer boost exploits, but even those happen.
They can’t really remove credits, but certainly monitor the exploits otherwise, yes. They are completely worthless.