So basically your admitting the measure is punitive and trying to people off. Good to know.
It basically an admission that even you know it's a bad idea.
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Credits now meaningless? Might as well remove? Discuss
- Thread starter Agony_Aunt
- Start date
So basically your admitting the measure is punitive and trying to people off. Good to know.
It basically an admission that even you know it's a bad idea.
I am so tempted to do this but the 5000 Ly trip for Palin is what is putting me off. All the other engineer grinds are trivial in comparison.
Only about 100 jumps with a 50 ly ship. I suggest you make a trip of it. Go find some nebulas that you can visit along the way, and it becomes less tedious. You can just blow yourself up after 5000 ly if you don't want to fly back. edit: Oops, I misread, you're talking about doing it again after a save reset. Yeah, that's a yikes from me.
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you don't know what you are missing. it's like a rebirth on demand. not recommended, nor needed if you're a fresh player though. if you are as fresh as your forum profile suggests: DON'T. and... enjoy your time!
I'm about 800 hrs in. I personally didn't blow myself up when I did the Palin unlock, I'm just saying the option is there. Anyways, I find the "too fast progression kills the game" idea unconvincing. I got an Anaconda 4 months into the game. Hated it, and put it in storage (still barely used it since then). Since then I've explored various other large and medium ships, got into PvP and the engineering around that, etc. Honestly, the game only really started for me after I got the Conda and left behind the whole "big ships are the end game" philosophy. If anything getting to a big ship quickly got that out of the way so I could get deeper into the game.
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I originally did it in my old Cobra Mk III, with a 34.60 Ly jump range. Chose to go armed and dangerous, met a CMDR at Betelgeuse, we chatted for a bit, then I went to Epsilon Orionis as part of visiting all the stars in Orion. Then went round to some handy nebulae, did a round trip back via some other nebulae, took a bunch of space selfies and then travelled back. The return trip and all the beigeballs that I saw... I was getting really sick of it (it'd been a 3 week round trip) but I'm not the self-destruct kinda space pilot so I continued and flew home, changed into a Vulture then went to a CZ and blew up some stuff. Turned in about 90M credits of exploration data.
That bought me my A-rated Python. I had about 225M in the bank at that point, which bought a Python with everything except military grade armour (miscalculation on my part) and probably 2-3 rebuys left over. I don't tend to bother buying ships now unless I buy them and afford all the top class modules I want right there and then. Never used to be like that, it was a bit more of a decision as to whether I should stay on the E rated one, or whether the C rated one would do for now or should I splash out and buy the A rated one and not have as many rebuys left over... whatever. Now, money is cheap, just go make more. Piece of cake.
Mind you, I don't even know why I was worried about the rebuy cost. Over in the Asia-Pacific timezone, griefers and gankers are about as rare as HGE USS is now.
I get the idea that this is the point FDev are aiming for - get people involved in the game lore and content and less in having to earn a living wage. Good idea in many ways. I'm not sure why they don't just lose the credits aspect. What do you get when you're Elite? A discount (2.5%). Also, access to a place that has guess what... a discount (10%). Oh, and every module on tap but that's another story. Perhaps being Elite could be more meaningful?
With everyone having access to everything, you're still going to get sidewinder pilots.
I think it’s a little goofy that the guys wanting to go back to barely earning credits also shudder at the thought of a 5000 ly trip
Do you also consider that everyone likes all things equally?
Back to the topic, what would be the replacement for credits? As someone mentioned earlier, they currently act as an XP system of sorts. I do not know how the game would function without them
I'd have to disagree with that. There are people today flying the galaxy in Sidewinders by choice, sometimes I'm one of them. I spend a lot of time in a Cobra Mk III - it's fun to fly in a combat situation because it shields a mouse could widdle through, but it has a thin and flat profile so you have to learn to dodge the big plasma balls that your opponents hurl at you, or learn to fly outside your opponent's weapons arcs. I don't think I'm alone there.
However I don't think those sort of people are in the majority either.
Dude, I'd gladly go back to Day 1 ranges for FSDs. But then, I'm clearly a masochist
Actually I'm happy enough with how ranges stand now. I think it hits a sweet enough spot to satisfy most people... though I know some won't be happy till we have wormholes or jump gates as well
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Credits are still important, it just depends on how you choose to play.
While power creep is an inevitability that should be delayed as much as possible (it is easier to give benefit than to take it away) the increased earnings potential serve not to diminish the value of the credit, but to diminish the value of having lots of credits. It allows new players to catch up to the longer standing players, neatly avoiding an early adopter advantage.
While power creep is an inevitability that should be delayed as much as possible (it is easier to give benefit than to take it away) the increased earnings potential serve not to diminish the value of the credit, but to diminish the value of having lots of credits. It allows new players to catch up to the longer standing players, neatly avoiding an early adopter advantage.
I don't think that credits will ever disappear from the game, so are unlikely to be replaced. However new ways to spend them would be a welcome change. As much as I'd prefer to be rid of them, I'm happy to roll with new avenues of spending, before my final logout and decision on who can haz my stuff.
In other news, there are reports that the latest patch has severely reduced the number of HGEs that spawn. You don't suppose that they are trying to turn high grade materials into a new sort of currency?
I bought my 11yo son a premium starter pack in a recent sale. Like me he prefers to try to work things out for himself and did not find it easy or obvious how to earn money for upgrades.
I think a system that allows those with experience or who want to progress with help to do so quickly, while maintaining a reasonable rate of progression for those that follow their own path is not easy to achieve, but FDev have managed it.
I have never reset my save because I can only do something for the first time once.
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Yea. Fuel must be made more expencive. That will really hurt those pilots who fly big ships without fuel scoops. Both of them.
If you're just starting from a sidewinder again, it is still slow progress. I have an alt account still in Eravate that has 2M space bucks and a mostly A rated sidewinder. Waiting for 10M space bucks to get an A rated cobra or something. Or maybe I'll buy an Adder. Anyway, it is when you get to the early-mid level of the game (i.e. you're now in something Cobra sized or thereabouts, you have ranked up with a few minor factions), that's where the money starts to come flooding in.
Right, and I guess the point that I’m trying to get across is that the early “challenge” of the game was learning the ropes, regardless of credits.
Rather than remove credits, I feel quite the opposite. Credits are a fundamental part of both balance and progression in the game, but these aspects have been practically removed due to rampant income inflation and reductions in operating costs.
Players complain about small ships and light fighters being pointless, when their greatest strength is their low price and negligible operating costs. Similarly, players are now complaining about the AspX being made redundant by the Krait Phantom, despite the clear point that it is a fraction of the cost.
That all being said, most players now have such large bank accounts that simply regulating income back down again wouldn't achieve much of an effect except screwing over newer players, instead what we need is a wholesale actual inflation of the credit in the game rather than only the income increasing. Not only do we need a wholesale rebalance of income across the board, we also need to increase ship and module costs to match the overall increase in credits.
Also, in a similar vein, I would also propose a simple actual inflation in the game that automatically increases all prices and earnings by a small amount every week to support such a rebalance. FD haven't been particularly good at balancing things historically and so it's quite likely that they will still drop the ball whenever they add in or rework extra mechanics in the future on initial release even after existing content has been balanced; actual inflation in the game that continually increases the costs of ships, modules, repairs/rearming and rebuys would serve to effectively limit the effects of temporary credit exploits and imbalances as the credits earned in that sudden spike would devalue over time and players couldn't simply ride out one extensively farmed exploit to give them infinite money indefinitely.
Basically, to reiterate what I said in a previous thread on the issue:
Players complain about small ships and light fighters being pointless, when their greatest strength is their low price and negligible operating costs. Similarly, players are now complaining about the AspX being made redundant by the Krait Phantom, despite the clear point that it is a fraction of the cost.
That all being said, most players now have such large bank accounts that simply regulating income back down again wouldn't achieve much of an effect except screwing over newer players, instead what we need is a wholesale actual inflation of the credit in the game rather than only the income increasing. Not only do we need a wholesale rebalance of income across the board, we also need to increase ship and module costs to match the overall increase in credits.
Also, in a similar vein, I would also propose a simple actual inflation in the game that automatically increases all prices and earnings by a small amount every week to support such a rebalance. FD haven't been particularly good at balancing things historically and so it's quite likely that they will still drop the ball whenever they add in or rework extra mechanics in the future on initial release even after existing content has been balanced; actual inflation in the game that continually increases the costs of ships, modules, repairs/rearming and rebuys would serve to effectively limit the effects of temporary credit exploits and imbalances as the credits earned in that sudden spike would devalue over time and players couldn't simply ride out one extensively farmed exploit to give them infinite money indefinitely.
Basically, to reiterate what I said in a previous thread on the issue:
When earnings have increased by more than an order of magnitude without a corresponding increase in maintenance and outfitting options, obviously you are left with an issue.
If earnings had stayed in the region of ~50k/hour for a sidewider up to ~3 million/hour in a Cutter then all but the most established of players would still be scrimping and saving to afford what they want, while the newer players would still be able to work their way up to ships like the Hauler and Eagle in reasonable time before following through with the Cobra and all but the richest players would be seen making use of E and C rated modules for economic reasons. Sure, you would get impatient players complaining about how difficult it is to afford a top-end ship, but those people are going to complain unless the entire game is trivialised easy mode; better off leaving the top-end for dedicated and long-term players and as aspirational content for newer ones.
As it currently stands, credit earning is completely out of whack, with some activities offering absurd income rates while others languish in poverty, some activities scale hard with ship type while others are almost completely agnostic with regards to ship choice, some require extensive player knowledge and input while others are just a few clicks away on one of the many ED databases for maximum earning potential. As well as worrying about income rates at the top end, income needs to be balanced properly with regards to activity, ship/outfitting and player ability.
If/when FD actually balance profits properly, then we probably need to see some kind of inflation on ship and module prices to match whatever the new rate of income is and to devalue existing treasure hoards. Something like a 5x, 10x or even higher increase to all ship and module prices depending on the final income rates settled on, including affecting existing assets (to affect rebuys and repair costs, not affecting resale value though), performed without any warning or leaked rumours to prevent players from investing in ships and modules beforehand.
If earnings had stayed in the region of ~50k/hour for a sidewider up to ~3 million/hour in a Cutter then all but the most established of players would still be scrimping and saving to afford what they want, while the newer players would still be able to work their way up to ships like the Hauler and Eagle in reasonable time before following through with the Cobra and all but the richest players would be seen making use of E and C rated modules for economic reasons. Sure, you would get impatient players complaining about how difficult it is to afford a top-end ship, but those people are going to complain unless the entire game is trivialised easy mode; better off leaving the top-end for dedicated and long-term players and as aspirational content for newer ones.
As it currently stands, credit earning is completely out of whack, with some activities offering absurd income rates while others languish in poverty, some activities scale hard with ship type while others are almost completely agnostic with regards to ship choice, some require extensive player knowledge and input while others are just a few clicks away on one of the many ED databases for maximum earning potential. As well as worrying about income rates at the top end, income needs to be balanced properly with regards to activity, ship/outfitting and player ability.
If/when FD actually balance profits properly, then we probably need to see some kind of inflation on ship and module prices to match whatever the new rate of income is and to devalue existing treasure hoards. Something like a 5x, 10x or even higher increase to all ship and module prices depending on the final income rates settled on, including affecting existing assets (to affect rebuys and repair costs, not affecting resale value though), performed without any warning or leaked rumours to prevent players from investing in ships and modules beforehand.
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Right afterwards, they removed polls....