Hellmode

[Dirtbird]

I like the original idea, however leave the engineering alone (everyone can now get the vast majority of the advantages the dedicated dice rollers used to get) and replace with the following:

Notoriety 10 - relentless pursuit from 5 ATR on this CMDR wherever he goes // if killed by ATR pay full price on rebuy, no insurance.
Notoriety 9 - relentless pursuit from 4 ATR on this CMDR wherever he goes // if killed by ATR pay 80% of full price on rebuy.
Notoriety 8 - relentless pursuit from 3 ATR on this CMDR wherever he goes// if killed by ATR pay 60% of full price on rebuy.
Notoriety 7 - relentless pursuit from 2 ATR on this CMDR wherever he goes// if killed by ATR pay 40% of full price on rebuy.
Notoriety 6 - relentless pursuit from 1 ATR on this CMDR wherever he goes// if killed by ATR pay 20% of full price on rebuy. Not 5%.

Caveat - Killing NPCs does not bump Notoriety above 6. Yes, if you want to farm NPCs for murder, you can suffer some consequences too. In solo.

ATR numbers or time to arrive should also be scaled back depending on the security level of the system - high sec should have ATR start chasing quite quickly, low sec will have fewer ATR and they might take more time to start following the perp.

That will allow for some semblance of believing that a high sec system is actually what it says on the tin.
Also, if ATR are ineffective, revise the builds untli they are. This will, as always, be a work in progress. Perhaps have a half a dozen or so ATR builds speciaising in different areas, the worst case would be having someone chased by 5 ATRs all of different configurations and weapons fitouts? If you can beat that, I want to see the video and admire it.

Notoriety decreases as it does now, 1 point every 2 hours.

Now, we have an outlet for the money that these void opals bring us.

 

[Marc_Hicks]

I don't believe there needs to be any separation between crimes committed against humans & crimes committed against NPC's.

I've said elsewhere that Notoriety of 5 or higher should be far more "permanent", but that Notoriety should also be beneficial for certain criminal activities (like NPC piracy & Black Markets). I also believe that Notoriety should have greater impact on Wanted Ships, should they be brought to book, & the Commander flying them. So to add to the OP's idea. Notoriety of 0-2 means that you re-spawn in the ship you got "killed in". Notoriety of 3-5 means that you re-spawn in one of your other ships, selected at random. Notoriety of 6-8 means that you re-spawn in a stock sidewinder, but can summon one of your ships to your current location. Notoriety of 9-10 means you re-spawn in a stock sidewinder, & have to fly to the location of one of your stored ships.

 

[dfgqsb]

I don't see anything "Hell" here, more like a noob happy mode: if you behave and be a good kid, you'll be fine.

 

[Feros-da-Grundig]

I suggest Feros and Havvk meetup for a duel in stock vultures and put an end to this bickering. Just a friendly duel. To the death.

That solves nothing, a possible outcome is a dead Feros, I have no idea of Havvk's ability, and it's all irrelevant to the fact one can gank in pretty much anything. That is clear to anyone who simply analyzes the matter objectively.

What would actually answer the question is putting me in a stock vulture with a series of ships I get to select from whoever's in eravate at the moment and see how many last a minute. But that doesn't really sound like fun for me.

Or one could, ya know, just watch the video I posted of someone doing exactly that - except in an eagle.

 

[Crazy Joe]

Ironic, considering the debut album of the band that spawned your font.

That pretty much excludes every single open-only powerplay combat player from Shinrarta.

Every player trying to roleplay as a pirate (which is not a ganker).

Every wing with player faction that voluntarily engages in war vs other wings.

The list goes on and on.

The simplest solution will always be that solo button. And for those who want the other button, the solution will always be to learn the minimum skills needed to operate safely in open. The latter seems unlikely to ever happen, unless FDev makes a substantial attempt to address the extremely steep learning curve *in game*. I bet so many players get turned off because they don't want to gave to google every bizarre little quirk of the game (especially on console).

No, consensual PvP is excluded from these measures. If you participate in Power Play (which I agree should be Open only) or if you both switch off your "Report Crimes" setting (which should be visible to the other player) you are involved in consensual PvP. I have no problems with that. If you want to play Pirate with your fellow players you should learn to live with the consequences whenever they are not into consensual role playing (i.e. they have the "Report Crimes" setting switched on). Or learn not to kill your target.

If you are a bounty hunter and you kill a wanted player (and please not for some trivial amount) you should also be excluded from these measures.

Why should anyone be free of the consequences of their choices, just because the game lets you murder fellow players with ease?

 

[PeLucheuh]

Why should anyone be free of the consequences of their choices, just because the game lets you murder fellow players with ease?

And with the actual C&P, you are not free of consequences anymore.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

I also had no idea C&P was even aimed at gankers until recently. I always assumed it was there to deter people who were using NPC murder to INF- the BGS, which no longer is effective in 3.3 anyway. In fact I'm almost certain that's why it's there. It does nothing to deter ganking. Due to sparsity of CMDRs in open even the most prolific ganker will have a much much much lower killcount than a 3.2 era BGS murder-influencer. They'll never reach your notoriety levels without also either drastically changing how notoriety works in PvE, or greatly increasing the number of CMDR interactions.

Current C and P was never just about ganking. It was meant to provide consequences for a whole host of illegal activities. Some short sighted folks of course were pretty excited for the ‘comeuppance’ gankers we’re going to receive.

We all know how that’s worked out.

I’ll keep saying this until I’m blue in the face. No one is coming. It’s up to us.

 

[Andrew Gaspurr]

I always thought the forums were Hellmode *shrugs*

 

[Slange Lands]

No one is coming. It’s up to us.

To paraphrase what some famous person once said: you can never solve a problem at the same level of the problem.

Here are some other thoughts:

1. Live and let live. Call a spade a spade. That's life with all its unfairness and beauty. Action is not always the answer.
2. Evolution and survival of the fittest may happen in game. This will be fun to watch. If I am trading, there is no way in hell I will be in Open unless the rewards greatly exceeds the risks. The more Traders choose PG and Solo, the less fun gentleman pirates will have.... that is unless they are content to pirate NPCs. Frontier guarantees freedom of play style but not always the vitally necessary infrastructure to support those playstyles.

o7

 

[Rock-Hermit]

Notoriety above 5 should increasingly lose you the benefits of membership of the Pilots Federation. The first thing you should lose is the IFF function - the pilot's name and status, the ship's name and, most importantly, the "hollow" flags on the radar that identify other CMDRs. Without those the Hassle-hole gankers would find it hard to target other CMDRs.

Something like this was considered back in the beginning, players would have the option to turn of their transponder so they wouldn't be hollow on the radar. I would like to see that option, and maybe some mods or skill involved to resolve a target at long distance. At the moment there is no skill involved for predator to seek out prey.

 

[Feros-da-Grundig]

At the moment there is no skill involved for predator to seek out prey.

Are you kidding me?

If one excludes seal clubbing and pre-arranged meetups, finding CMDRs to interact with (in my case pirate, but others might be trying to support their PP power, or whatever) is very difficult, at least on console. The game needs more ways to encourage interaction, not less. The only realistic option is CGs, and this week that's not even an option for those of us who didn't feel like jumping for an hour.

 

[Dillon Fallon]

Are you kidding me?

If one excludes seal clubbing and pre-arranged meetups, finding CMDRs to interact with (in my case pirate, but others might be trying to support their PP power, or whatever) is very difficult, at least on console. The game needs more ways to encourage interaction, not less. The only realistic option is CGs, and this week that's not even an option for those of us who didn't feel like jumping for an hour.

I agree entirely here. The thing is, what would encourage people to go into open? Obviously some never will for various reasons, but I wonder if aspects of the game are so misaligned that this will be extremely challenging to achieve. Scare stories from DW2 in open (admittedly from people putting wet paper bag explorers in there) don't help either.

Perhaps npc terrorists in PvP style ships need to be floating round solo and PG modes. I wonder if the problem is not that open is too full of people who will shoot you, it's that solo doesn't have an equivalent threat.

 

[Feros-da-Grundig]

The thing is, what would encourage people to go into open?

Nothing really in the game's current state, aside from self motivation, desire for challenge, etc.

Open only PP, Open CG, set "acquired in open" flag on commodity that causes 50% sell boost (and set flag false if solo/PG entered while in cargo), etc. have been suggested but I doubt they will ever happen.

I don't personally think making solo more "dangerous" via NPC would help but just an opinion. Solo is as hard or easy as one makes it. Nice to hear suggestions in any case.

 

[Myou]

Perhaps npc terrorists in PvP style ships need to be floating round solo and PG modes. I wonder if the problem is not that open is too full of people who will shoot you, it's that solo doesn't have an equivalent threat.

Excuse me but i rather like that the npcs in this game only attack with actual purpose. Im all for making them more threatening but having them attack for the "lulz" im not gonna stand for.

 

[Dillon Fallon]

Excuse me but i rather like that the npcs in this game only attack with actual purpose. Im all for making them more threatening but having them attack for the "lulz" im not gonna stand for.

Just throwing an idea around, but certainly there would some realism to an anarchy faction wanting to destabilise a system. There's plenty of missions which involve you killing clean ships. Why would you not be a victim of an npc faction doing the same thing? But yes, there does need to be an in game reason.

No idea if it would be helpful and I'd say no chance of it being implemented, so I wouldn't worry.